Personally I would prefer to pay more tax than for cuts to corporation tax and CGT to happen at the same time as cuts to disability benefits.

The thing that I find staggering is that anyone other than the top 5% of earners votes for the inhumane, casually heartless, self-serving shower of shits!
^
from Binners.

This. I just don’t get the justification for most people to vote tory.

And it’s about time the politicians were brave enough to say so.

One of them already has, quite an important one too.

Linky to the “deficit still rising” stats ?

So far it seems quite telling that most arguments are based on the disability cuts, but with seemingly little to back up exactly what is being cut.

@SlimJim78 – It would look like from the points in this BBC article seem to suggest it is pretty open ended – each case is going to be different? There is further reading on The Guardian about actual effects on some cases. I’m confused as to how they say a billion quid more is being spent over the next 5 years, but individual payments are being cut (or may be cut?) and they are saving 1.3 billon quid a year doing this – why isn’t the media properly explaining this?
RM.
edit: @allthepies ONS Public Finances

Can someone explain exactly WHY top rate taxpayers (me included) need an extra £43/mo? At the expense of the disabled on benefits? FFS.

I need to do the calculations but the planned increases in the personal allowance are in effect a (relative) tax rise on those that pay the highest rate of tax (45+2) as they don’t get a tax free personal allowance. Every penny from the first pound earnt is taxed.

@binners if I only cared about myself why would I remain living in a country like the UK with relatively high taxes ? I could live and work in for example US, Dubai, HK or Singapore.

I could live and work in for example US, Dubai, HK or Singapore.

Sorry Jammers old boy, but that sounds like a familiar bleat from the banking fraternity as they threatened to chuck their toys out of the pram after the crisis, in protest at the merest hint of anyone regulating their unfettered greed and psychopathic risk-taking, or asking them to actually pay some tax, stop bankrupting the country, scrounging off the state, or any other dreadfully unpalatable things.

We kept hearing how they could relocate to anywhere in the world, who’d of course welcome them with open arms of course

None of them did though, did they?

I wonder why? Is it because if you’re a ludicrously overpaid sociopath then London is probably the best place on earth to get all your desires, no matter how grotesque, serviced by a simpering, craven government.

Personally, my opinion was probably similar to most when they were having their little hissy fit

Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out, will you? And do send us a postcard from wherever this apparent ****ing utopia you’re off to is

Mintimperial, ransos, bonnets and molgrips +1

So will my son with severe learning difficulties be better off under the current government? No. Is it a disgrace? Yes.

None of them did though, did they?

I posted this before, I do appreciate you may have ignored it 😳

None I think is a bit strong …

I moved to Singapore and personally knew around a dozen colleagues who did the same. Brevan Howard the hedge fund moved all their big earning traders to Geneva.

London is highly regulated, if you are the type of nutjob binners is describing there are far better places to ply your trade

Every health service in the world operates to a budget. Labour offered an extra £/bn pa for the NHS and the Tories £8bn at the GE. I know people here think thatbpromise is worthless but Labour should have been bolder.

As I said we are spending annually £130bn on nhs, £130bn on welfare, if thats not going to the right places we should look into that

@yunki I cannot think of a bigger own goal for Labour to have anything to do with a General Strike

Can someone explain exactly WHY top rate taxpayers (me included) need an extra £43/mo

The actual answer is that the 40% threshold hasn’t kept pace with inflation / wage rises, with the result that a band that used to impact 1m people now catches well over 3m – had the 40% band tracked inflation at the same rates benefits and pension payments had it would currently stand at around £50K.

When renting a 2 bed flat in London can be as much as the entire take home pay for someone in this band you can see the problem. Nurses, police and teachers were never historically in the tax band for the “rich”, although having said that the social justice warriors tube and train drivers still earn well north of the revised 40% threshold.

although having said that the social justice warriors tube and train drivers still earn well north of the revised 40% threshold.

Yay for the politics of envy !

43 quid a month will make f all difference toward your 2 bed flat in London

Tackling the housing crisis rather than making it worse would be a better solution
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-wife-used-taxpayer-7449766

The actual answer is that the 40% threshold hasn’t kept pace with inflation / wage rises

Not really an answer, is it?

anyone ever come to the logical conclusion that what the world actually needs right now is a zombie apocalypse?

I moved to Singapore and personally knew around a dozen colleagues who did the same.

And yet …. here you are.

Labour need to jump on this wth both feet. Shit will stick

If the Labour Party can’t make anything out of the tories cutting benefits to the disabled while giving tax breaks to top rate taxpayers then they really might as well call it a day

And yet …. here you are.

Tax rate cut from 50% moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE – however with the benefit of hindsight I should have stayed put, ex colleagues who did so are far better off. One is just retiring to Austin Texas at 48, good for him.

I read @roger’s links and it seems that Osbourne has reduced future payments as his (?) recently (?) introduced PIP where much higher than expected (+20%) as such the bill was more than he expected and he therefore determined it was unaffordable. Also being reported there could be a Tory revolt over these proposed budget changes.

If the Labour Party can’t make anything out of the tories cutting benefits to the disabled while giving tax breaks to top rate taxpayers then they really might as well call it a day

McDonald and Corbyn can’t

As above its not clear top rate (45+2) taxpayers are getting a cut when you factor in the personal allowance and pension tax relief changes

Whatever. They’re certainly not going to be any worse off.

Unlike disabled people. Who will be considerably worse off

Apparently even some Tory MPs think this is a pretty ****ed up set of priorities. Imagine that? Tory MP’s getting a bit Squamish about punishing the poor and disadvantaged? We’re in unchartered waters here.

“And yet …. here you are.”

Tax rate cut from 50% moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE .

And somehow the country stumbled along without you. Maybe your absence wasn’t such a blow after all?

to anybody who bleats about the injustice of the UK’s system I would say: get off your backside and go and live in, for example, India or Nigeria where a huge percentage of the world’s population lives, see how thay are forced to manage than come back here and tell me you live in an unjust society.

I grew up, lived, worked and regularly visit just such a country. (Have and do you?)

I could probably move back there tomorrow and make more money and pay less tax. Much of the reason why I live in the UK is because it’s safer, fairer and because people who can’t cut it in the labour market don’t have to beg at the side of the road. The U.K. system is unjust. However, I acknowledge the diligent work of the current government in closing the gap between us and that country…

I have a different view to most in that I feel that we should all be treated the same tax wise in the percentage that we pay, not very popular I know, but I don’t understand why anyone should have to pay a higher rate of tax if they are fortunate to earn more as they pay more in anyway.

It’s all about disposable income. If someone earns enough to pick up £1000 per month after tax but spends £900 per month on rent and bills, they have £100 disposable income. With a flat tax system, someone earning 3x as much would pick up £3000 per month. Even if they spent £2000 per month on a big house nice car etc they’d still have 10x as much disposable income as the lower paid worker. In a progressive system, they would only pick up (for example) £2500, so would still have 5x as much disposable income as a lower paid worker, despite their work only being valued 3x higher by the labour market.

tldr; cost of living doesn’t rise proportionately with income, so the higher paid actually have much more spare cash than the lower paid.

Corbyn has made a passable attempt at attaching the budget

‘Unfairness at its very core’ is a good summary

The Tory press knew this was gonna be a stinker, is plain to everyone note that Osborne’s chin truck has fooled no one so…. the Sun’s budget was a full on righteous front page about a 2nd division footballer doing a wee.
The daily mail devoted a page to Theresa Mays budget cleavage today.

Another thing thats gone un noticed by a lot of people is the closure first of REMPLOY, then one by one council run day centres for the disabled, and handicapped, followed by respite care centres,the second bedroom tax, and finally the loss of mobility allowances to pay for mobility cars, all these things required paid people to run them, and they to have lost their jobs, along with the disabled and long term ill being deprived of income and freedom.

There is no limit to the vindictive hatred of the working classes and the ones who cant make a fuss for themselves, eg the disabled and long term illness sufferers.

Majority not affected or gives a 5hit.

Until they are affected…

So, they forced through cutting Employment support Allowance payments last week, that’s £30 gone for countless disabled people.
They continue to flip flop over the Access to Work fund, it’s certainly not a stable benefit.
They are introducing blanket caps to local housing allowances (including the Shared Accommodation Rate), essentially removing disability exemptions.
They have been constantly shifting assessment thresholds for PIP assessments since they introduced them in 2013. The new one today is

The number of points awarded for the use of aids and appliances in relation to Activity 5 (Managing toilet needs or incontinence) and Activity 6 (Dressing and undressing) will be halved from 2 to 1 from 1 January 2017. This will apply all new claimants, those whose circumstances change and those undergoing reviews.

Which basically affects a lot of disabled people, not just the apparent scroungers in the system.

Both myself and my wife work with disabled people, she runs a lot of supported living services for Autistic adults. With the existing and proposed cuts, it might become financially impossible to pay for these services, leaving lots of vulnerable people genuinely screwed.

I can only draw one of two conclusions, our leaders are idiots or they are nasty idiots.
Anyone who can justify that list of cuts when the government is handing out tax breaks is a sociopath.

moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE

Awesome loopholes, aren’t they? – you know, for the well-paid, I mean

As a higher rate payer, I’m quite happy to pay more tax as long as it’s redistributed downwards rather than upwards….

There was absolutely no need to change the 40% tax threshold, or increase the ISA limit by £5k, if you can afford to save £15k every year, you’re doing pretty well and another £5k won’t make a big difference. Cutting CGT just benefits those with large stock portfolios, again those that need the least help.

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

Looks like there will be a revolt and it won’t get passed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/17/tory-rebels-osborne-disability-benefit-cuts-just-not-acceptable

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

**** you too!

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money I earn (having benefitted from the welfare state) to spend how I wish (without sacrificing the welfare state).

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish!

You’re going to buy some disabled people some new wheelchairs?

Big Society innit?

Well I would like to see how its going to affect me & the wife but I’m to tired from caring for my wife (yes she cant do anything for herself at all) and working during the day in a job that just clips into higher rate tax! Though it helps to pay for care etc

So I don’t know if I should be happy or pissed off. But given the smug tossers I see on the news in most political debates in parliament I’m going with “They don’t have a clue”

@yunki I wasn’t posting in relation to you specifically just a general comment that that sort of action will likely have the opposite effect

Awesome loopholes, aren’t they? – you know, for the well-paid, I mean

Corporate taxes are now below 20% whilst personal taxes are 47% plus 13% employers NI. A number of us here have posted numerous times that changes in tax policy often have un-intemded consequences. The “well paid” typically have flexibility in how rhey arenpaid and wjere they earn their money. That is why seeing them as a cash cow which can be milked is an error

I’ll repeat myself again, the impending Greek default and the impact on the EU economies is going to make the pain people think we are suffering today look like a grazed knee.

So that justifies cutting taxes to the better off, while slashing funding to the disabled, how exactly?

Because to me…. And you’ll have to bear with me here, because I’m not very bright – but it looks to me like a bunch of overpriveledged ****s giving more and more money to the better off parts of society (their mates), while considering making the lives of disabled people immeasurably more miserable, a price worth paying to make that possible.

Like I said, I’m not that bright, so it may be slightly more nuanced than that, but to me the only logical conclusion to be drawn from that is that they’re a bunch of utter ****ing ****s! Voted for, and supported by another bunch of ****ing ****s!

Do feel free to explain to me why I’m wrong, and this isn’t the case at all

Reflective of the small-minded, bile, bullish “silent majority” that need to be voted against to get real progress.

The shithouse rats hide in plain sight and thrive on the in-fighting they cause by divsion, obfuscation and misinformation.

Kick the **** into their graves.

Reading the above it’s no wonder the bullish majority stay silent, the personal bile being vented here is outright bullying of people with different political views and that’s what we’re talking about, different political view points not absolute rights and wrongs. If you want things to change at the next election engaging with people is more likely to get them to change than haranguing them for their selfish view point.

How much somebody with disabilities needs to live is subjective (and personally I genuinely have no idea as I don’t have direct experience of it) but to just assume more is always better is not right either, there has to be a balence between welfare spending and taxation. Just continually taking more tax from those perceived to be able to afford it is not right either. There’s grey areas across both groups, there will be many diasable people who get far too much and only have themselves to blame for their situation, there will be many (probably) more who the state should do a lot more for. Conversely there will be many top rate earners who really don’t earm their pay in any way, they’re bad at what they do, lazy, easy to replace or what they do really isn’t important for society (highly paid executive in an online betting firm for example) and there will be others that do vital work well, treat their staff with respect and keep a business running that supports hundreds of families.

The myopic utopian views being expressed above however caring they seem on the surface are no more helpful than the opposite end of the spectrum where all people receiving benefits are seen as undeserving scroungers. I lament the lack of thought people seem to give to very complicated matters.

That all said I do think Osbourne and co are not the right people to be running the country, their personal experience is so divorced from the majority of the population I doubt they have the knowledge to find the right balence between welfare and taxation.

For the record I am a higher rate tax payer and my eyes do water every time I see the gross amount of tax I pay and the percentage of my earnings that I lose. However I do think we have the basics in the UK right and we need to make sure everyone has the basics required for a dignified life, where that balence lies is open to question. Anyway I assume despite being in the small minority of net contributors to our country my views are vile to most of you so flame away.