A challenge for all those who think trailquesting is lame.

Midland Trailquests. The clue’s in the name

You asked about the UK. It was only 14 minutes ago, surely you remember?

MidlandTrailquestsGraham

Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

🙄

another one who thinks UK and England are synonyms

I mean, what sort of a way is that to advertise a bike race, implying that you’re too soft to even finish the course. They’ll never get anyone to enter like that.

Yes they will, because it’s a good event on a good waymarked course, and although the promoter appears on here periodically he’s not ‘challenging’ people to ride around following him for the duration.

Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

Well I can do a ride around the Surrey Hills with perhaps 10% road/fireroad, but you miss the point, which was more that there is some fantastic singletrack, which if one wanted to be competitive in an event such as this you would avoid and take an adjacent fireroad. That doesn’t appeal, I don’t want to be penalised for taking a more fun route – why not just road race?

I can see Molgips point about a longer/flatter road/fireroad vs a steep technical trail, but at least in the ones I’ve encountered that’s not what happens, that’s a by-product of the local topography and trail network after all!

Whilst MTG is not endearing himself to everyone, I’d still like to point out that the one and only time I have done one of these trailquests I enjoyed myself immensely.

I’m not sure I’d travel far to do one, but the one I did in the Peak District was a great way of making some fairly average and easy trails a mental and physical challenge. I’ve not enjoyed MTBing as much since riding in Spain, since most UK riding is simply not as much fun as big mountains and endless downhills. For that reason I try and find ways of spicing up my local trails, be it sessioning some jumps or technical climbs. Trailquest seems as good a way as any of doing that and MTG is right in that it is no less “flowy” than your typical group ride.

But he still needs to accept that some people just don’t want to try it 😀

Njee I’m confident I’d drop you no problem if you were following me, first technical trail and I’d leave you standing.

I play to my strengths on Trailquests and usually take the shorter more technical option than a possibly faster longer road section. It’s this choice that means it is very accessible to everyone who can read a map and who is interested in exploring trails.

Once you’ve done a few you then start developing the specific skills of efficient route choice, pacing/timing, calculating risk (ie is it worth coming back late and receiving penalty points but getting a high scoring control), too much risk = loose points, not enough = could have scored more.

I’ve moved from XC racing to Trailquesting and now prefer it. I am no slower than I use to be and probably a bit faster. It is only recently that I have developed the skills mentioned above to such a degree that I am now able to put my full fitness and technical ability to use.

Also if I have a bad ride I still have the added bonus that I have often ridden in an area totally new to me and now can instantly pick out a good ride to do again in the future.

I got fed up of riding around doing short laps in XC races. Which is why I now mainly do events such as the TransWales, Black Mountain 3 days, Polaris, Trailquests and bikepacking tours such as the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail etc. All events that have a sense of adventure to them as well as just out and out racing. I’d do more adventure races as well if I did not find running so painful!!

It’s not a problem if you’re not intrested in them I wasn’t either. But be aware that they can become quite addictive and they are actually very social because after the event you will spend a good amount of time comparing routes/trail knowledge and seeing what worked best.

National Champs are up in the Lakes this year in September if you fancy giving it a go. Should be plenty of technical riding and probably the opportunity afterwards to compare splits both uphill and downhill. Another good event is the one based at the Malham Show in August

Njee I’m confident I’d drop you no problem if you were following me, first technical trail and I’d leave you standing.

love the modesty lol! this forum is fantastic 😆

It’s just that Njee was so confident he could follow Graham thought I would join in too!! 😛

Forgot to say you can ride all these events as a pair so the ‘pain’ of navigating can be shared.

Once you get good at it you don’t even need to stop you just slow down a little or read it on the road sections and try and commit it to memory.

“love the modesty”

I think there’s a significant part of the idea of a “challenge” that some people are just not getting.

Graham. I think it is great you are trying to promote the sport. I enjoyed riding against some of the Midlands riders at the Polaris at the weekend. I’d love to see more of them come up and try the national event or the national league.

Just read about the GPS system the midlands events are considering. I like the fact that it would be able to spot any cheating. There was a lot of people taking short cuts on footpaths at the Polaris last weekend 😕

I think there’s a significant part of the idea of “personal preference” that some people are just not getting.

FTFY.

It’s just that Njee was so confident he could follow Graham thought I would join in too!!

I’ve seen Graham’s results, so my comment was based on a little bit of evidence rather than pure cocky speculation.

What makes you so sure you’re quicker than me?

I can see Molgips point about a longer/flatter road/fireroad vs a steep technical trail, but at least in the ones I’ve encountered that’s not what happens, that’s a by-product of the local topography and trail network after all!

True – I’ve only done one TQ, most of my experience in this area comes from Polarises which are usually done in significantly different terrain. You find yourself faced with 90 mins remaining and a choice of going around or over a mountain.. 🙂

I’ve seen your results and I specifically mentioned technical trails. And I only need to drop you enough so that you can’t follow me and would need to navigate, all perfectly possible. So I stand by my statement.

Once you get good at it you don’t even need to stop you just slow down a little or read it on the road sections and try and commit it to memory

I’d advise against this, having taken out my then fiance on a descent whilst trying to read the map. Luckily she still married me (3 weeks later)and we still got second despite bleeding profusely and a distinctly icy silence for the next hour.
The dress was long enough to cover the scars on her legs at least 🙂

I’ve seen your results and I specifically mentioned technical trails. And I only need to drop you enough so that you can’t follow me and would need to navigate, all perfectly possible. So I stand by my statement.

Yeah, so ya boo sucks to you njee.

I think there’s a significant part of the idea of a “challenge” that some people are just not getting.

Oh it wasnt directed at you Graham, dont worry I’m not out to join the trailquester-witch-hunt mob that are after you on here!

Personally I would be interested in trying a trailquest type thing but I dont think there are any in my area (Essex), although if anyone reading this knows of one near here then please say! It could be a good way for me to learn some navigation skills as I regularly get lost finding my way out of the local tesco metro.

Well that’s told me, suffice to say I shalln’t be coming on one with you and risk being abandoned on a fireroad as you ride off into the sunset 🙄

If the dates work out I’d happily try one on the Surrey Hills (open minded fellow as I am) where I know the terrain, take as much of the map reading element out of it as possible, and just ride! I’m not too sure the ‘promoters’ of TQs have done anything at all good for the image whatsoever, quite the opposite in fact, but hey ho!

Njee no different than what you said here

I’ve seen Graham’s results, so my comment was based on a little bit of evidence rather than pure cocky speculation. What makes you so sure you’re quicker than me?

As a previous overall winner of Singletrack Classic Weekender and the reigning National Mountain Bike Orienteering Champion I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist….

On a more positive note. I’m glad you are going to try one out. 🙂
I thought exactly what You thought before I tried one, so I know where you are coming from. Hopefully you will enjoy it. A lot of the local xc racers in and around the peak district use the Dark and White Events as training. Now that some of them have been doing it more regularly e.g Oli Holmes, Darren Alexander Team CNP/Orbea they have started to get some good results more regularly. In fact Darren won the Dark and White Winter League this year.

I also wondered if we’d got a bit overly racey and so put people off. Might get a few more people into mens but where trailquests could do with more poeple coming through are womens, mixed and generation classes.

Despite the competative talk the events I’ve been to are socialable, yes there is bike and map talk but its a bike and map event. If it was a race there’d be bike and course talk so its not anymore nerdy than any other mountain biking competion.

MidlandTrailquestsGraham – Member
Where in the UK can you legally ride for 3 hours without using roads and fire roads ?

If I was you, I’d get in quick and pretend this was a joke too.

I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist…

Is a MTB orienteering champ faster than an Expert XC racer I wonder?

Oh and btw all this ‘I’m faster than you’ rubbish from the TQers is just making the sport look even lamer I’m afraid 🙂

Oh stop all the willy waving.

What a bunch of tossers. I’m faster than you FFS – for what its worth my money is on njee – cocky young fella he may be but I believe he is a decent real racer.

D Faff Master – you are not helping at all – making trailquests look like a playground for egotistical plonkers – make it even less attractive FFS with your posturing.

FWIW njee isn’t cocky irl 🙂

As a previous overall winner of Singletrack Classic Weekender and the reigning National Mountain Bike Orienteering Champion I did not want to get into the specifics of why it is likely I would drop you but as you insist…

Pah! A loaf of Soreen, a couple of haribo and I’d blow your mind with my electric pace*…

*Electric pace, as in a milk-float.

Well done guys, you seem to have painted a picture of typical trailquestors as single, egotistical, forest dwelling outcasts with no idea how to interact with wider society. You probably do military re-enactments too

Oooh, do they do military re-enactments too? That sounds properly ace. A Trail Quest thing with chain mail and halberds and stuff. Or are you just making that up?

That STW endomondo thing is pants. Most of the riders who are on it are commuters. Those of us who ride on hills for recreation don’t get a look in. Chris Lever is exempt however seeing as he did really well at 10UTB and is a bit of a riding god. Did I mention I finished second behind him in March? And I’m bigger and heavier than MTG so I must be brilliant at trailquests. Not that I’d ever do one. They sound about as interesting as connecting my nads to the mains.

A challenge to make people think trailquesting is lame.

You nailed it.

I’m sure Graham won’t mind me mentioning this as I know he has a sense of humour.

The great trail quester got lost at the HONC, which is a way marked route, he also had a GPS..

In fairness he did put in a good time, on his improvised course. 😉

Graham, and any other TQers, instead of this extremely poor attempt which seems to have alienated rather more people than it has attracted, why not take the time to explain things?

Tell us about the best TQ you did, explain why you did well, point out the options in navigation, show us the rookie mistakes, show us how the experienced riders do it, top tips, navigational hints and so on.

Tell us why you like it instead of telling us we are stupid because we don’t.

Chainreaction halibuts – no far to realistic its wizard fun 😉 why do you think there are so many trolls.

“Tell us why you like it instead of telling us we are stupid because we don’t.”

Where have I done that ?

I started one thread as a serious attempt to get some feedback to see how we could attract more entrants.
I then started this one as a bit of a wind up and got a few bites. 😉

I’ve tried to answer specific questions where I can.

I know from poking around on your website that you may just be writing some kind of article for a well known publication; look at it as practice. I know how to ride a bike, I know how to ride a bike fast, I know how to read a map, tell me about how you do it so well, or not so well…

I’m not going to start a third trailquesting thread in two weeks.
I’ll add a few tips here as I think of them.

First one;
Always be aware of the time and distance remaining.
OS maps are divided in to 1km squares.
If you can maintain 30km/h on a flat road, you can cross one square in 2 minutes.
20km/h = 3 minutes
15km/h = 4 minutes
10km/h = 6 minutes

Doing mental arithmetic while riding off road is not an exact science.
The trails don’t always go straight across the squares for a start.
You can use those times as a rough guide though.
Let’s say you’re 6km from home with 20 minutes to go.
4km of road = 8 minutes
1.5km of farm track = 6 minutes
500m of bridleway = 3 minutes
That’s 17 minutes, so you’ve got 3 minutes to spare.
You can now make a decision on whether it’s worth diverting to get another CP if it puts you over time.

Each minute over time for the first 5 minutes costs 1 penalty point.
Each minute from 6 to 10 minutes costs 2 penalty points.
7 minutes over = (5×1)+(2X2)= 9 penalty points.
I consider those 7 minutes as my safety margin.
It’s always worth going over time by up to 7 minutes if it means you get an extra CP.
10 minutes over = (5×1)+(5×2) = 15 penalty points.
It’s only worth going 10 minutes over if you’re going to get a 20 point or higher CP.

I’ll get some down for you tomorrow crikey. And I’ll try to give some examples. Might use this weekends Polaris saying as I’ve got the map handy.

Someone explained the main rules for a successful Polaris once.

1) don’t be late
2) don’t be late
3) don’t be late
4) if you must be late, don’t be more than 10 minutes late.

Nothing quite like giving it everything for two days (and usually on naff all sleep) to see your points wiped out, or at least reduced to the level of people who had a nice pleasant tootle 🙂

Top skills for doing well at that event include being able to look at a map and assess how long it’ll take to ride a bit of trail, and being able to see all the options for linking up as many checkpoints as possible. You have to decide whether or not to go for the big scores or more little scores. Best plan is to head for big scores VIA as many small scores as you can. And once you’ve decided, you must not faff. Don’t stop for a biccie and a breather at each checkpoint, you’re in a race. Your navigation must be bang on – no mistakes, no dithering, no trying to decide which hillside you’re on.

TQs are the same but much shorter and much easier 🙂

Oh my God Graham!! I don’t do any of that.

I just go as fast as I can and take a few risks and hope they pay off and then learn from my mistakes. Very different tactics. I like the fact that it has the potential to go Pete Tong and I’m desperately trying to finish within the time limit to save my points.