- This topic has 6,282 replies, 176 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by kelvin.
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2019 General Election
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perchypantherFree MemberPosted 4 years ago
Why not before now?
This is a fair assessment of why now…..
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/10/24/remain-should-push-for-an-election
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoSo it could only happen because the Dems put it out there?
Yup, Dems and SNP are the only opposition parties willing to kick this Government out of office and do something practical to get Art50 revoked.
olddogFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThe irony of all this is that if this election is to stop Brexit as the stated aim of LD and SNP – then it needs to deliver a Labour led Govt – this maybe a minority with support from SNP, LD and others. But any other even vaguely feasible result either leaves stalemate or a Boris Johnson deal Brexit
If the LD and SNP are playing this straight they are relying on a Labour surge as per 2017 to deliver their stated objective
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoYup, Dems and SNP are the only opposition parties willing to kick this Government out of office and do something practical to get Art50 revoked.
That will not happen. Can’t see it.
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI think we could see labour backing this today now that Johnson has withdrawn the brexit bill. By all accounts Corbyn and others on the left are pushing for it and it’s the centrists who have cold feet. The student vote aside, the 12th may not be so bad as labour have a huge ground operation which the tories don’t have which will be of huge benefit in getting the vote out.
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agohe irony of all this is that if this election is to stop Brexit as the stated aim of LD and SNP – then it needs to deliver a Labour led Govt – this maybe a minority with support from SNP, LD and others
For sure.
Siwndleson won’t do that as she puts power/increased seats above Brexit.
Bit cocky for someone in a with a smallish majority and who lost to the SNP in 2015.
roneFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI think we could see labour backing this today now that Johnson has withdrawn the brexit bill.
Yeah. Let’s do it.
Will certainly make Xmas different.
perchypantherFree MemberPosted 4 years agoI await proposed amendments to the Early Election Bill with interest.
I’d go for the ” If no party wins an overall majority in the GE then that immediately triggers a properly scrutinised, legally binding, 2nd brexit referendum” option to establish conclusively what the will of the people actually is.
Boris wants to Get Brexit Done. That’ll sort it either way.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoif this election is to stop Brexit as the stated aim of LD and SNP – then it needs to deliver a Labour led Govt
Not true. The lib dems are the only party with remain as their policy. They’re neck and neck with Labour in the polls and seat distribution is impossible to calculate. For the first time in 100 years, and perhaps for the last time the Libdems could win. Tories and Labour are both losing votes to BP and Lib dems. (The only reason to vote Labour this time is habit since their Brexit policy is to offer a glorified coin toss.)
The student vote aside, the 12th may not be so bad
Students can easily arrange postal votes, I expect they already do. I think the 12th will be fine.
” If no party wins an overall majority in the GE then that immediately triggers a properly scrutinised, legally binding, 2nd brexit referendum”
A big yes to this from me. I’m opposed to all referendums on this topic (and most others) but that totally overcomes all my objections.
pihaFree MemberPosted 4 years agoIf the LD and SNP are playing this straight they are relying on a Labour surge as per 2017 to deliver their stated objective
Not necessarily.
If the SNP & Lib Dems manage to take No Deal away from Blohard before an election, then the tory vote would be diluted at the GE by the Brexit Party. Furthermore, with No Deal removed from any form of tory inspired Brexit, the tories would be split in Government as the ERG and Moggists are desperate for a No Deal Brexit and would probably vote against any softening of Brexit.
So IMO, the SNP & Lib Dems aren’t relying on a Labour surge but gambling on splitting the tory party over Brexit and diluting their vote.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 4 years agoWill 9th or 12th December be achievable if the option to include 16/17 year old is accepted?
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI await proposed amendments to the Early Election Bill with interest.
The reason Boris didn’t go for this earlier was due to the fear of amendments scuppering his brexit plans. At the very least I would expect an amendment to rule out a no deal under any circumstances. If that is passed then labour will support it as that’s been their position all along.
I also note quotes from Diane Abbott in shadow cabinet. You really have to marvel at the sheer cowardice of the centrists. Whining f***** the lot of them.
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agoNot true. The lib dems are the only party with remain as their policy.
Not true. I suspect your logic is that of Swinson and co though. The lure of power outweighs the risks.
Will 9th or 12th December be achievable if the option to include 16/17 year old is accepted?
That does seem somewhat suspect and gesture politics. Even if it managed to get passed the logistics seem hard to get through in the time frame.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoWill 9th or 12th December be achievable if the option to include 16/17 year old is accepted?
Who knows but 16/17yo should not be allowed to vote IMHO. Or if they are considered worthy of that responsibility then all the other legislation that protects/limits them because they are children needs to change to reflect their new status as fully rational responsible adults. (Alcohol, driving, Children’s Act).
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThe lib dems are the only party with remain as their policy.
Not true.
Which other party has remain as their policy?
Seems to me that the Tories/BP are leave, the Libdems are remain and all the others are the coin toss of a referendum.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI would expect an amendment to rule out a no deal under any circumstances.
A future Parliament cannot be held by any such amendment
Voting for 16/17 year olds is a SNP policy. It’s hardly “gesture politics” for them to suggest it this time around. Note that they also want to include EU nationals resident in the UK.
If you can join the armed forces or get married when 16 then you should definitely have the right to vote.
Malvern RiderFree MemberPosted 4 years agoWhat a total cluster.
At this point in time I feel I have nothing to add except for continuing posting subsistence-budget meal-recipes and dad-jokes.
When did this country become two competing species of rat floating on a leaking ship stranded in the doldrums? Uncle Sam will be along shortly to mop up.
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years ago“centrists” … “lure of power” …
And then getting all excited at the idea of Labour falling in behind the tactics of the SNP and LibDems derided only yesterday …
Tribalism is odd.
I still think a December election is an awful idea, but Johnson has managed to make it look essential to stop Brexit happening first (with the help of a few Labour MPs). I can’t see this ending well.
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agothe Libdems are remain and all the others are the coin toss of a referendum.
So,by this logic, you are saying the Libdems have only recently become a remain party. Curious.
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI think the LibDems have been pretty clear “for a while” that they want Brexit stopped. At the recent Labour conference they voted to decide after the next general election whether they want Brexit stopped, to chants and singing of the leader’s name. So, yes, Labour still have a coin flip policy… perhaps it’s a clever plan to keep people on side who want lots of different Brexit outcomes… if you give them the benefit of the doubt. We’ll see how that pans out all too soon it seems…
kerleyFree MemberPosted 4 years agoFor the first time in 100 years, and perhaps for the last time the Libdems could win.
What odds are you giving against that happening as I will have a £1,000 on it please. In no way ever are the lib dems going to come close to winning.
scotroutesFull MemberPosted 4 years agoThere’s no road long enough for Labour to kick the can down.
yourguitarheroFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThe SNP are also a remain party. And are bigger than the Lib Dems
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agoI think the LibDems have been pretty clear “for a while” that they want Brexit stopped.
Not by outofbreaths definition.
So, yes, Labour still have a coin flip policy
Or, as it is otherwise known, giving the confirmatory choice to the people. Admittedly a bit of a coin flip but then again that is the Libdems true position as well if we ignore the yellow unicorns.
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years ago[a reminder that I’m voting Labour, and would urge most of you to do so as well (depending on which seat your are in), but this pretence about LibDem policy on Brexit from Labour supporters is nonsense]
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoSo,by this logic, you are saying the Libdems have only recently become a remain party.
Yes, I am, before that they were a referendum party.
Indeed Vince Cable called for an EU referendum in 2007 and an EU referendum was in their manifesto in 2010, so they’ve had a long recent history of not being a remain party.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoThe SNP are also a remain party.
They’re not, they want a referendum. They’re arguing for a 50/50 coin flip with leave as one of the options.
Beyond that, if the SNP have been offered a No Deal exit from the UK and the EU in 2014 (or today) they’d would bite your arm off.
dissonanceFull MemberPosted 4 years agobut this pretence about LibDem policy on Brexit from Labour supporters is nonsense]
a)I am not a Labour supporter and b) its outofbreaths definition.
As for the Libdems. I prefer something a bit more solid than their yellow unicorns. I find it fascinating that people rant and rave about Labour lack of precision but dont ask the questions about what exactly Libdems are offering. If I tactically vote for them what will happen if they dont get a majority. What will they want on the ballot paper? Considering their consistent attacks on Labour will they try and force a new leader more in their mould?binnersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoCorbyn fan boi Paul Mason has just been on Five Live explaining Labours Brexit Policy.
The preference is still very much Red Unicorns. He said that the northern labour constituancies want a labour government but also want the referendum result honoured and for us to leave the EU. Tellingly, he made no mention of a second referendum.
outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoConsidering their consistent attacks on Labour will they try and force a new leader more in their mould?
YES. There is no way the lib dems will work with Corbyn or Boris in government. Whatever happens they will make it conditional on the party they work with having a credible leader. Which frankly won’t be a problem, because they can’t work with the Torys because the Torys have put all their eggs in a leave basket and Corbyn will go anyway if he doesn’t win outright.
(Ok, we don’t know all of that but we can make a pretty shrewd guess.)
dazhFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s on. Corbyn has confirmed they will support an election. It’s a relief, if only for the fact that the thread title is correct again 🙂
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years agoRight… can I geolock my posts for the next two months? I’d like to be posting tactically based on where other contributors get to post their votes, ‘till this next messy stage is over.
If you’re in Calderdale, vote Labour.
I beg you.outofbreathFree MemberPosted 4 years agoFor the first time in 100 years, and perhaps for the last time the Libdems could win.
What odds are you giving against that happening as I will have a £1,000 on it please.
I don’t bet ever but if I did I wouldn’t bet on this. This is the hardest election to predict in our lifetimes.
DracFull MemberPosted 4 years agoIt’s on. Corbyn has confirmed they will support an election.
That can’t be right Tory fan boys and leavers tell us he’s too scared.
kelvinFull MemberPosted 4 years agoEveryone 16 or over can get themselves on the electoral register… if you know anyone not registered yet, give them a nudge today. Just. In. Case.
binnersFull MemberPosted 4 years agoBless him. Grandad just wants this nightmare to be over so he can toddle off and spend more time with his aubergines.
Pity it means a hard brexit and 5 years of Boris Johnson for the rest of us…
wwaswasFull MemberPosted 4 years agoDo we know why LibDems and SNP are lobbying to not have votes for 16+ included as an amendment to the GE bill going before Parliament?
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