More doctors, more to share the load, less stress.

Payments to GP practices are based on list sizes, I’d like to recruit another doctor to share the load, I can’t afford another one, in fact I’ve already agreed with one to cut their sessions (stress, work life balance etc etc)

I don’t know any doctor that feels underpaid, just ones that feel over worked. You cant cancel one out with the other… Though I feel like we’re basically arguing the same point.

On GP wages: people who don’t think GPs should be able to afford to ski obviously aren’t bothered about not having a GP.

On teacher wages: those who got a PGCE around the time I did realised they could get better pay and conditions doing something else so apart from a few teaching in countries where pay and conditions are more attractive I don’t know/know of any teacher of my generation who is still in the profession. Even the more recently qualified don’t stay long. Women leave the profession in droves when they have kids because the wages don’t cover child care so they don’t return to teaching – part time work or work that allows WFH is ultimately more lucractive.

In both cases under paying people with the intelligence and commitment to be either a GP or a teacher is a poor strategy and false economy. They’ll end up doing something else and/or going somewhere else.

Two separate arguments here: is 2.8% a reasonable pay increase? and is the base salary enough?

Is 2.8% a reasonable increase? probably. I’m looking at 2-3% in the private sector, inflation’s coming down too, so as a deal it’s pretty vanilla.

Is the base salary enough? no, probably not. It’s the NHS that fixes people up and sends them back out to work, so they can drive the economy, so it stands to reason that the better NHS we have then the better economy we have. But it all comes at a price as the books need balancing and promises have been made to not put up taxes when in reality that’s exactly what needs to happen – but no-one’s going to like that!

Only other thing that’s going to increase the size of Government spending is either economic growth or borrowing, and we definitely don’t need more borrowing. We should pay some off but then that’ll reduce the amount of money to spend on NHS wages.

Balancing the books is not easy and every decision to spend more is met with another one that needs to be made to spend less, so if we spend more on the NHS what do we spend less on? Defence? Roads? Police? I don’t have the answers.

Why the public sector is so underfunded, under resourced and under valued is beyond me.

You do know which government we had for the last 14 years…

@ratherbeintobago indeed. Just look at the rather ridiculous reaction on here to the fact that I’ve been on a skiing holiday.

There’s also a taboo amongst doctors about admitting that money is a motivation for practicing medicine which starts at our med school interviews.

I don’t know any doctor that feels underpaid, just ones that feel over worked

That’s really not the tone of our BMA-led trust WhatsApp group. There may be embarrassment about admitting that to non-doctors, though (and in any case I think what people are driving at is similar pay for not doing a load of effectively mandatory overtime)

My feeling is if conditions of practice / workloads were better sorted that would go a long way towards improving retention.  Probably cost more than a pay rise but lead to a better service.  And yes – some hospital doctors hours and pay structure are stupid.

There is not a “one size fits all” for doctors pay and retention.  GPs, consultants and FY1s al need different things.  We also need to train more of them.

I merely suggest that given the budgetary restrictions lets bias pay rises towards the lowest paid in public service.  Those who are ending up with top up benefits or even using food banks

For those stating that improving quality of life alone for GPs will solve the problem, it won’t.

25 years ago, we had a pretty good quality of life as GPs, less complaints, shorter hours, much better hospital support, and better hours.

We could not get doctors to apply to training schemes because of the low pay.

If got fixed when New Labour gave GPs a massive pay rise.

If you want decent quality GPs with decent access (and you probably should, because it would fix many of the problems with the NHS) you need to pay us well enough and improve our conditions.

Successive governments keep on trying to get a GP service on the cheap, and that’s why we’re so chronically short.

@anagallis_arvensis

I am  Dr and I have never been on a skiing holiday

You should try it. It’s a great way to meet <checks notes> other doctors. 😉

they have done better than care assistants, cleaners, junior nurses etc over the last 14 years.
Some of those will be on min wages, and those have had a percentage increase more than GP/doctors have.

And will still be unable to pay their rents and utility bills while some of their colleagues will be skiing.

And will still be unable to pay their rents and utility bills while some of their colleagues will be skiing.

And the option here is paying highly trained, highly skilled professionals what they’re worth, which means they can go skiing, or not doing so, which means they’ll be skiing in NZ or Canada having emigrated, which means you can’t access a GP.

Obviously all NHS staff deserve pay restoration.

And the option here is paying highly trained, highly skilled professionals what they’re worth, which means they can go skiing, or not doing so, which means they’ll be skiing in NZ or Canada having emigrated, which means you can’t access a GP.

Obviously all NHS staff deserve pay restoration.

Well said. I just found that skiing comment rather tone deaf but I may be being a little sensitive after a year where my outgoings have gone up massively while my pay hasn’t. But, I’m not a teacher or a medic so have no more comment to make, other than maybe some sarcasm. 😀

Re doctors pay, giving them bigger payrises is just enabling them to go part time / retire earlier thus reducing capacity overall making the existing issues worse

Exactly what we are experiencing locally. I mean, I get it. How are you going to fit in all your holidays if you’re working full time?

The communist dream, eh, IdleJon, everybody should be poor. Fact is that medical studies are long, expensive and hard work, and it takes more than just vocation (which we all hope is the main reason our doctors doctor) to get to be any kind of doctor. There’s an opportunity cost too, if you’re talented enought to get through medical school you could probably get into other even higher paid professions.

It’s slightly easier to become a teacher and again having a vocation is a big part of it for most. However, in my case the desire to go skiing, own an energy efficeint house, bring a kid up without economic constraints, live somewhere properly nice… trumped the teaching vocation. So I have low pay, shitty conditions and a dick of a headmaster to thank for my subsequent success in life.

I assume that’s aimed at me. Fair enough. I don’t know you and couldn’t care less about you and how much you do or don’t get paid. However I’m not the one who is trying to persuade others that I should be given a pay rise. So you can consider the advice, or ignore and carry on as you are – your choice

I’d argue the contrary – letting people do fewer hours makes them less likely to go early, and paying more makes it easier to recruit/retain.

Yes, certainly in GP land, the people I know, myself included, who work part time, do so to maintain their mental health.

If I didn’t have the option to work part time, I’m pretty sure I’d have left the profession or emigrated.

I also studied for a long time, am told by my colleagues that I’m good at my job, and work hard. I’m also aware that I’m luck to be able to do so, but I won’t be ashamed of getting paid more than some, and spending it on things that I enjoy and are good for my mental health.

@DT78

earn £100k+

I’m nowhere near £100k+ whole time equivalent. So there is that.

I doubt there are enough posts for everyone whose threatening they can just pop over to NZ or canada

That really depends, from my team of 12 we have lost two consultants to Canada in the last 18 months.