The guy who handed himself in today is in for fraud.
A third of them, 87, were in prison for crimes under the category of “violence against the person”. This is the largest group, but we don’t know from the data what the specific offences were.
Well, that's in line with people in the prison system as a whole... about a 1/3 are for what's classified as violent crimes. By the way... for violent and sexual offences, it's Brits that are more likely to be in prison for those offences... not foreign nationals.
A lower proportion of foreign nationals are in prison for violent and sexual offences than the overall population—27% and 14% compared with 29% and 17%, respectively. A higher proportion are in prison for drug offences (26% compared with 18%).
[ source ]
https://twitter.com/lukeakehurst/status/1986356984950493417
That'd be the politics of wanting to fix things then Fakehurst.
Are you sure about that Parachute Luke?
The Labour right are fetid.
some data on the accidental releases, hard to be sure as the category violence is quite broad!
Thanks, and I wonder what their terms were, i.e. if in for 12 months and let out early by mistake after 8 months not as bad as 25 years and left out after 8 months. Still a bit shocking that it happens at all though as can't be that hard to do the checks on who you are letting out on a given day.
Can assure Clive I'm one MP who has no desire to be associated with Mamdani at all. The politics that appeals to NYC would go down like a cup of cold sick in US Rust Belt states or in UK equivalents like North Durham.
Presumably the "Labour" MP for North Durham lacks the confidence to argue in favour of policies which are seen as the norm in much of Europe in what has traditionally been seen as a Labour heartland?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/06/europe-zohran-mamdani-policies-normal
How did the Labour Party fall into the hands of such inept and useless right-wingers (aka centrists)?
How did the Labour Party fall into the hands of such inept and useless right-wingers (aka centrists)?
Brexit. It put the wind right up the Labour Party when it realised some of the views held by its core voter base. They've still not come to terms with it and it has allowed people like McSweeney to present themselves as some kind of alchemist, electoral geniuses. When they are nothing of the sort.
Luke Akehurst should probably stop pontificating about the US Rust Belt without doing research. Mamdani occupies very similar political territory to Rashida Tlaib (Michigan), Ilhan Omar (Minnesota), Summer Lee (Eastern Pennsylvania)...and that's just at the federal level.
Depicting Mamdani's policies (fair rent, cheap public transport, affordable groceries...) as appealing to only the bourgeois big city elite electorate is very silly. Probably as silly as suggesting British voters in Red Wall seats aren't concerned about those things too.
Brexit. It put the wind right up the Labour Party when it realised some of the views held by its core voter base. They've still not come to terms with it and it has allowed people like McSweeney to present themselves as some kind of alchemist, electoral geniuses. When they are nothing of the sort.
It was much earlier than that, the centralisation of power into labour head office during the Blair years was the biggest driver and laid the foundation.
It was much earlier than that, the centralisation of power into labour head office during the Blair years was the biggest driver and laid the foundation.
And yet Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader in 2015. 🤔
He was elected by the party members, and the head office and most of the plo worked against him from day one.
Depicting Mamdani's policies (fair rent, cheap public transport, affordable groceries...) as appealing to only the bourgeois big city elite electorate is very silly.
Well, quite.
Defies logic.
As said plenty of times the reason these people go the other way when voting is because their material conditions aren't really being met.
Hope sells better than hate - but it has to be on offer.
None of this is actually rocket science. It's just wealth determines the narrative as fact.
(There Is No Alternative.)
He was elected by the party members, and the head office and most of the plo worked against him from day one.
🙂
most of the plo worked against him from day one.
I thought the PLO were Corbyn's big mates? He went all the way to Tunis to lay flowers at their graveyard with the Black September murderers and everything.
And yet Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader in 2015. 🤔
Because quite simply the centrists blundered, something which they were perfectly happy to admit to at the time.
After over 20 years in control of the Labour Party the centrists became too cocky and relaxed about their grip on the party. This led to the astonishing decision to allow anyone with 3 quid to spare a vote in the leadership election. Over a hundred thousand took up the offer.
Committed centrists such as Margaret Beckett signed Jeremy Corbyn's leadership nomination papers because they were absolutely convinced that he stood zero chance of winning plus it created an illusion of tolerance and party democracy. Margaret Beckett later called herself "a moron" for signing Corbyn's nomination papers.
Corbyn easily winning the leadership election caused absolute chaos for the centrists but because they still had much of the control of the party's structures they were able to fight back and very seriously undermine his time as leader.
Lessons have been learnt and the centrists will never ever again risk losing control of the Labour Party. Which is why the party is doomed. Although I am sure they care about that as much as Nick Clegg cares about the damage he did to the Liberal Democrats.
Anyone who can remember the Blair years will remember the connection between New Labour, control freakery, and terms such as being "on-message"
He went all the way to Tunis to lay flowers at their graveyard with the Black September murderers and everything.
According to Benjamin Netanyahu, Corbyn denied it. I guess we should believe the 'most moral prime minister in the world' though.
Anyone who can remember the Blair years will remember the connection between New Labour, control freakery, and terms such as being "on-message"
Anyone who was a member of any local Labour branch will remember the frankly Kafkaesque levels of central control after the 2017 election defeat. It made the Blair years feel like the WI.
Anyone who was a member of any local Labour branch will remember the frankly Kafkaesque levels of central control after the 2017 election defeat.
I know you are not an honest contributor to political threads, but that is the most ridiculous and frankly idiotic claim made for a very long time
All I can remember from that period is recorded here on the Brexit threads - things like the "three-line whip" on the Article 50 vote which told me exactly where the party leader ship really stood on Brexit and I didn't like it. It was pretty authoritarian.
If there is one phrase which has come to characterize the nature of Tony Blair's government in the public perception, it has to be "control freaks" - shorthand for an obsession with taking command of all aspects of government business and with how these are portrayed in the media. The proliferation of "Tony's Cronies" in key positions, the obsessive approach to news management, the desperate efforts to manipulate the elections for the Welsh assembly and London Mayor - all proclaim deeply rooted insecurity which can be assuaged only by exerting strict control
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Control-Freaks-How-Labour-Gets/dp/1902301765
I know you are not an honest contributor to political threads
It must be a frightening world when anyone who disagrees with you is automatically dishonest.
😬
It must be a frightening world when anyone who disagrees with you is automatically dishonest.
What would you know about nickc's contributions Danny? You have only been on this forum for a couple of weeks or so!
"three-line whip"
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn invented the three-line whip ?
One of the primary criticism of Jeremy Corbyn was, with some justification, that he was a very "weak" leader, he couldn't even maintain discipline in his own cabinet FFS, now he is being accused of being some sort control freak! 🤣
All I can remember from that period is recorded here on the Brexit threads - things like the "three-line whip" on the Article 50 vote which told me exactly where the party leader ship really stood on Brexit and I didn't like it. It was pretty authoritarian.
I agree that the three line whip on brexit was a stupid move, but it wasn't characteristic of Corbyn's time as labour leader which would be more generally described as offering olive branches to people stabbing him in the front, for example he went on to allow Starmer to shape labours brexit strategy.
Is this some weird initiation thing for new members who dare to post on political threads?
Whoever this Danny character is, he must have ruffled a few feathers or pissed a few people off. No idea, really.
Nickc above pretty much stated that he was involved at a branch level in the Labour Party, post 2017 and gave his experience. If he's fibbing, then im the fool.
But, let's take him at face value, MSP outright accused him of lying. Ive read many of MSP's posts since joining (he makes a lot). That's enough to form an opinion.
Maybe I'm out of my depth here and swimming with the ideology sharks. It feels pretty pointless, TBH.
I'm happy to contribute on bike stuff from now on. Political stuff - I think I've had my warning. 😬
plot twist: Earnie IS Danny!
Political stuff - I think I've had my warning
Well done, at least you got that, it's a step above being ignored 😀
Whoever this Danny character is, he must have ruffled a few feathers or pissed a few people off. No idea, really.
Yeah whoever he is. It's always a bit of a mystery figuring out who he is this month. Although it generally becomes fairly obvious after he has posted about half a dozen posts.
And here's the funny thing, I don't think he has actually pissed off anyone, I can't imagine that he has ever received a permanent ban so I have no idea why he feels this reoccurring need to come back incognito, or at least attempt to. Bizarre!
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1986484656405918172?t=zMqn_YCsCPOjfH174H_J1A&s=19
Be very interesting after the budget.
Centrism about to drop of the bottom of the list.
That's remarakably like another map
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government, especially given the power such a government would have under the UK Constitution
I know - tactical voting, rainbow coalition ... But this is a really high stakes game
I know you are not an honest contributor to political threads, but that is the most ridiculous and frankly idiotic claim made for a very long time
@MSP, I don't know why you have personal grudge against me, we've never met, you don't know me. I've literally no idea why. You've even had post deleted, and yet here you are... Don't you think it's just a bit weird?
As for the claim, If you had anything to to do with the disputes panel led by Christine Shawcroft, you'd know what I was talking about.
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government, especially given the power such a government would have under the UK Constitution
In some ways.
But I think we have terrifying now really. The bad stuff has been in motion a long time.
I've watched my area fall apart.
Just hanging a different shade of blue on the door - it's not good, but it's not been good for a long time.
If things have to get bad before they get good then so be it, that's the path that's been chosen.
Or we push back ... With something new.
Having Farage actually in charge of something, where he has to lead, might be illuminating, especially seeing how poorly Reform appear to function at a council level; people may actually see them for what they are: A racist, one trick pony of a party with no other skills to bring to the table.
Sadly, the country will suffer right up until the time by-elections happen as the MPs drop away or the infighting really begins.
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government, especially given the power such a government would have under the UK Constitution
No mate, you are most certainly not.
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government, especially given the power such a government would have under the UK Constitution
It won't be great but whatever the government, not much actually changes and not many people will notice any difference. The poor and trodden on will still be poor and trodden on, the wealthy will continue to get wealthier and the people in the middle will just carry on as they are now. I have had an easy life since I started working in 1987 and through all the governments we have had it has made pretty much no difference at all to me personally.
It is why we won't actually see such a party as the Green Party getting a substantial presence, because too many people don't really want to risk any change as they are just about doing okay in the current system.
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government, especially given the power such a government would have under the UK Constitution
Well firstly the level of support for Reform that the polls are suggesting makes a Reform majority quite unlikely. And secondly I would expect any Reform government to be deeply unstable and in all likelihood short-lived, even more so if in coalition with the Tories.
After a hundred years of alternative Tory-Labour governments the more long-term consequence of a temporary Reform premiership might actually be more positive than some might imagine if it disrupts the political logjam which characterizes and has paralysed UK politics.
And that, I am sure, is actually probably what is in the minds of many people who out of desperation are now considering voting Reform. After all many people voted Labour in last year's general election out of desperation following 14 years of Tory rule, not because they had a clear vision of what they were voting for.
Furthermore in the unlikely event that the above poll was replicated in a general election and the Greens emerged the second largest party that would be a massive step forward imo. Having a party other than Labour or the Tories as the official opposition would be earth shattering.
I don't know if the findings of any recent MRP poll would allow the formation of a rainbow coalition, which is a distinct possibility, but if one was formed I think we can safely assume that proportional representation would be a red line demand for at least some of the parties within the coalition, that would be a massive step forward for UK politics imo.
Labour could of course with its huge majority introduce legislation for proportional representation right now but we know that Starmer really isn't interested in any radical changes or upsetting the status quo. The long-term consequences of his disastrous premiership probably, as I keep pointing out, worry Starmer about as much as Nick Clegg is worried about the consequences that his leadership had to the LibDems. Self-serving careerists in politics just leave the mess they have created behind and get on with the next stage of their careers.
Finally although it won't be happening I have to say that I would dread Kemi Badenoch becoming prime minister more than Nigel Farage becoming PM. I consider her to be probably even more right-wing than Nigel Farage. Furthermore as a man who strives to be a populist Farage has the constraints that places on him, I don't believe that Badenoch feels similar constraints, I am sure that she doesn't give a monkeys how much the country might hate her, in fact she would probably think that it would make her more like Thatcher.
The question though is who will be the Tory leader when the general election comes in less than 4 years time?
Am I the only person who is genuinely terrified by the potential for a majority reform government
It is terrifying yes, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that it needs to happen so we can lance the boil. A good mate of mine - who voted Labour last year - is a Reform supporter, he won't admit it outright but everything he says is from the Farage playbook, that Labour and the Tories have stopped listening to the people and are only in it for themselves, that the only solution is someone new who can rip up the status quo, that immigration and 'wokery' have gone too far etc. He's right on some of that of course, but we all know the answer to that isn't Reform, because they will double down on the tory agenda of selling of the last vestiges of the state (the NHS mostly) to private capital, cut taxes for the rich, and destroy what's left of the welfare state. He won't see it though until it happens, and millions like him won't either because at the moment they think Reform are the radical answer to the UK's problems. I don't see any other way of bursting the bubble than them being in govt unfortunately.
Having Farage actually in charge of something, where he has to lead, might be illuminating, especially seeing how poorly Reform appear to function at a council level; people may actually see them for what they are: A racist, one trick pony of a party with no other skills to bring to the table.
Sadly, the country will suffer right up until the time by-elections happen as the MPs drop away or the infighting really begins.
Yeah, this is what a lot of people (including me) thought about Trump first time around. "He can't organise anything, he's incompetent, everyone will see he's incompetent, and he'll shed support and be gone". Well, that was totally wrong...
He won't see it though until it happens, and millions like him won't either because at the moment they think Reform are the radical answer to the UK's problems. I don't see any other way of bursting the bubble than them being in govt unfortunately.
The problem is that Reform are carefully watching Trump, who is following the Orban playbook of removing checks and balances on his power, in particular reshaping the media in a way that is very hard to roll back. Farage has made no secret of his admiration for Trump, Orban and even Putin. The Brexit vote which arguably helped put us in the position we are now shifted the Overton window firmly to the right, a Reform government would likely shift it even further.
He won't see it though until it happens, and millions like him won't either because at the moment they think Reform are the radical answer to the UK's problems. I don't see any other way of bursting the bubble than them being in govt unfortunately.
The problem is that Reform are carefully watching Trump, who is following the Orban playbook of removing checks and balances on his power, in particular reshaping the media in a way that is very hard to roll back. Farage has made no secret of his admiration for Trump, Orban and even Putin, the shift from populist to authoritarian is not uncommon. The Brexit vote which arguably helped put us in the position we are now shifted the Overton window firmly to the right, a Reform government would likely shift it even further.
The question though is who will be the Tory leader when the general election comes in less than 4 years time?
Because the fortunes of the Tory Party are highly unlikely to change over the course of the next four years I fully expect a succession of leaders. Whoever replaces Kemi Badenoch now is unlikely to last much longer than she has I would have thought. So it's anyone's guess who will be Tory leader at the time of the 2029 general election
Blimey the double-post gremlins are having a field day today
Having Farage actually in charge of something, where he has to lead, might be illuminating, especially seeing how poorly Reform appear to function at a council level; people may actually see them for what they are: A racist, one trick pony of a party with no other skills to bring to the table.
Sadly, the country will suffer right up until the time by-elections happen as the MPs drop away or the infighting really begins.
Yeah, this is what a lot of people (including me) thought about Trump first time around. "He can't organise anything, he's incompetent, everyone will see he's incompetent, and he'll shed support and be gone". Well, that was totally wrong...
Having Farage actually in charge of something, where he has to lead, might be illuminating, especially seeing how poorly Reform appear to function at a council level; people may actually see them for what they are: A racist, one trick pony of a party with no other skills to bring to the table.
Sadly, the country will suffer right up until the time by-elections happen as the MPs drop away or the infighting really begins.
Yeah, this is what a lot of people (including me) thought about Trump first time around. "He can't organise anything, he's incompetent, everyone will see he's incompetent, and he'll shed support and be gone". Well, that was totally wrong...
Having Farage actually in charge of something, where he has to lead, might be illuminating, especially seeing how poorly Reform appear to function at a council level; people may actually see them for what they are: A racist, one trick pony of a party with no other skills to bring to the table.
Sadly, the country will suffer right up until the time by-elections happen as the MPs drop away or the infighting really begins.
Yeah, this is what a lot of people (including me) thought about Trump first time around. "He can't organise anything, he's incompetent, everyone will see he's incompetent, and he'll shed support and be gone". Well, that was totally wrong...
Yeah, this is what a lot of people (including me) thought about Trump first time around. "He can't organise anything, he's incompetent, everyone will see he's incompetent, and he'll shed support and be gone". Well, that was totally wrong...
Yeah but the political models aren't the same. As UK Prime Minister Nigel Farage will not be able to issue executive orders nor will he be able to overrule parliament, and he will in all likelihood be forced into a coalition, he is unlikely to be able to control the behaviour of his own MPs never mind coalition partners, all this will make a Farage premiership highly unstable in a way that the Trump presidency isn't.
An unstable Farage coalition government is unlikely to endear voters.
It should also be remembered that Donald Trump, despite his false claims, did not win the 2020 presidential election. It is unusual for a US President not to win to consecutive terms, it was Joe Biden who helped Trump win the 2024 presidential election. Hopefully when voters kick Farage out of Downing Street opposition parties won't hand him back the keys on a plate.
Curve-ball (and geo-politics is not my thing...) But
I don't think it will happen like Libs have been telling us - but Labour do keep ringing the 'war' preparedness budget joker card. If that changes or worsens (specifically for us) I can't imagine the polling will be anything other than Labour V Tory, with Tory climbing the ranks.
Just a feeling.
As an aside; having incompetent stupid leaders is not a new thing for us - ahem, but I feel parliament does reign stuff in mostly. Trump may be off the scale but he's also about 50% bluster. (His tariffs have yet to really sink, and boy will they.) I think if Reform got in they are actually smart enought deliver some 'lefty' cookies to stay relevent. That conflict does intrigue me.
Their politics will be untidy though.
I'm still getting work from a very Reformy Nottinghamshire County Council - which I thought would dissappear but then again they've been Tory for a while so no real difference.
Yeah and what about the 16-17 year olds that Starmer thought would bring him glory too?
When are they going to poll them?
Labour MP Steve Reed tried to stick one on Zack Polanski the other day and ended up looking like he knew nothing about the economics of housing, despite being the secretary of state for housing and communities.
His response is one of a dwindling Tory.
Lisa Nandy on a roll at the moment.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqjwp0rq7d7o
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1987479388254863585?t=wUy9nGZArM2c8okLEsIJAA&s=19
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxrp7znkdlo
...who could possibly have seen that coming! 🤔
Exactly.
These people are ridiculous.
If you cut, remove, de-grow and contract - what do you think will happen to the economy and people's lives?
I don't know what it's going to take for them to realise they are so far from making good economic decisions it's literally off the scale.
When you chase black-holes and insanely stupid disconnected fiscal and monetary policy...
A tax increase will almost certainly do even more damage. Again it's a cut to income -and private money circulation.
Correct route:
Spend>grow>tax
As opposed to tax/de-grow/spend and wait for something to happen. The loony right are fully out of control in Labour.
(James O'Brien just called the country skint. These people are crackers and don't look at the evidence.)
I watched Reeves talking about the budget last year and how it was a one-off to get the country back on sure-footing.
It was a silly thing to say. She's not just incompetent - she's disingenuous.
(Not forgetting pretending there is such a thing is independent economic choices. All economic choices that are framed through institutions are nowhere near independent.)
Using the OBRs wonky 5 year forecasting is like trying to plan a trip to Saturn based on current tech and even when you get there - if you get there, it's not going to be survivable trip.
(James O'Brien just called the country skint. These people are crackers and don't look at the evidence.)
He’s an utter ****, fully convinced of his own righteousness
Yeah, likes to do the progressive/pragmatic empathy but manages the tight-rope act of hating Tories and talking like one at the exact same time.
See himself as Brexit wizard without taking a blind bit of notice for the failings of neoliberalism.
A veteran Labour figure said: “They are ****ing mental – and useless. All they’ve done is let the world know there is a serious issue with the PM’s leadership.”
To be fair I think the whole world was already fully aware that there is a serious issue with the PM's leadership.
A veteran Labour figure said: “They are ****ing mental – and useless. All they’ve done is let the world know there is a serious issue with the PM’s leadership.”
That's world class commentary that.
So it's the people who are plotting against Starmer rather than Starmer - that the country is a mess?
“f you chuck a leadership challenge in just 18 months into government you’d destabilise the markets, our allies and I don’t think the public would forgive us.
Oh bless. It's always about destabilising the markets these days rather than destabilising everything else that we've had to suck for the last few decades
Labour pathetically bringing up the markets at every possible opportunity absolutely shows how terrible our democracy is abused for the benefit of the wealthy.
A leadership challenge wouldn't be heating up if these pricks had done a good job.
It's not good for us but the budget needs to absolutely destroy Reeves and Starmer; where they can then go on to fulfill their careers as over-paid incompetent advisors to some Ai or financial institution.
I've repeatedly been proven totally wrong in politics...but the idea of a successful insurgent challenge to Starmer coming from Streeting seems completely nuts. From the left or a populist or a personality within the Labour Party - I can see it. But from a cold fish white guy on the right of the party? It just doesn't make sense to me. Who is his disaffected support base within the PLP or wider LP?
Labour head office know that simple Starmer is toast, that's why Streeting and Shabana Mahmood are being touted, they want to get out ahead of any challenger that might actually work for the country instead of the oligarchs and markets, they want to make sure the right wing takeover off the labour party continues.
The whole current leadership and central structure of the labour party are far more interested in the internal politics than actually getting on with the day job, and frankly have been since Starmer took over.
I've repeatedly been proven totally wrong in politics...but the idea of a successful insurgent challenge to Starmer coming from Streeting seems completely nuts. From the left or a populist or a personality within the Labour Party - I can see it. But from a cold fish white guy on the right of the party? It just doesn't make sense to me. Who is his disaffected support base within the PLP or wider LP?
Yeah I agree but Streeting has been making left-wing noises recently, much in the same way as Starmer was making left-wing noises when he too was desperate to become Labour leader.
The interesting thing about Streeting is that he is all but a hundred percent certain to lose his seat at the next general election, he very almost lost it at the last general election when there was a surge of support for Labour everywhere else.
What would be the appeal of a dead Labour MP walking?
So my crazy bet of him going before Xmas could still be on the cards?
I suppose the budget drags it all out a bit more.
Labour head office know that simple Starmer is toast, that's why Streeting and Shabana Mahmood are being touted
Well - what an abundance of talent the Labour party has to choose from.
I'm sure either of those being chosen as leader would be met with jubilation and street parties throughout the nation! 🤣
Starmer is one of 2 people alive today who's won an outright Labour majority, his successor has a bit of an act to follow. A lurch to the left will let reform in.
Starmer is one of 2 people alive today who's won an outright Labour majority, his successor has a bit of an act to follow. A lurch to the left will let reform in.
It's the opposite.
A lurch to the right has seen them drop down the ranks of just about every single poll.
Left-wing policies are popular which is why he ran a campaign on them. (And a Tory collapse. He squandered the opportunity of a lifetime with zero political and economic plan while chasing the optics of Reform. What a plan.)
Besides, this clueless bonehead told people to leave if they didn't like what Labour were doing.
A lurch to the right has seen them drop down the ranks of just about every single poll.
Yeah it makes you wonder why Starmer's very obvious lurch to the right hasn't worked at all?
It is every single poll btw, you are being too generous by suggesting that it might not be !
I'm currently finding myself often thanking Sunak for going to the polls earlier than he had to.
I wonder if we’ll end up with simultaneous leadership elections? Or will Honest Bob wait to see who he’ll be facing st the despatch box?
The interesting thing about Streeting is that he is all but a hundred percent certain to lose his seat at the next general election
That's why he's moving now. If he waits til the next election he won't be an MP. The only chance he has of being PM is to get rid of Starmer before the election and take over from him. Then he can find himself another seat that's a lot safer.
PS. It's pretty hilarious that in addition to all the cockups since the election, and the impending dump of their central manifesto pledge, and raising taxes for working people, they're now going to further damage their poll ratings by embarking on a factional leadership battle.
If Starmer had any honour or interest in doing the right thing for both the country and his party he would admit his failures and quit now. Instead though he's choosing a scorched earth policy which will finish the party off for a generation and hand the keys to No 10 to Nigel f####### Farage.
It's crazy this is all kicking off just before the budget.
What timing. It means they're seriously dreading the budget.
If Starmer had any honour or interest in doing the right thing for both the country and his party
That'd be a first!
Remember this is the guy told us to celebrate the FTSE being at all time high a few weeks ago. (I checked my wages - nope still the same.)
So my crazy bet of him going before Xmas could still be on the cards?
I bet you a tenner to Medical Aid to Palestinians that Starmer is still PM on Xmas Day. I still think that a lot of this is just early first term stumbles and mumbles. But, you know, I've been very wrong in the past
The only chance he has of being PM is to get rid of Starmer before the election and take over from him. Then he can find himself another seat that's a lot safer.
Er, can you imagine the utter humiliation if the UK Prime Minister, and leader of the Labour Party, if they had to find a safe* Labour seat where local party members would be prepared to select them (and possibly oust a sitting MP) because they had no confidence that their own constituency would elect them!?!?
* There are likely to be considerably less safe Labour seats in the next general election than there were in last year's.
So my crazy bet of him going before Xmas could still be on the cards?
I bet you a tenner to Medical Aid to Palestinians that Starmer is still PM on Xmas Day. I still think that a lot of this is just early first term stumbles and mumbles. But, you know, I've been very wrong in the past
For sure - it's just a daft bet with my Dad.
Er, can you imagine the utter humiliation if the UK Prime Minister
Yeah it's unlikely and would be completely uprecedented. I doubt the labour party would elect him leader in any case for exactly this reason. Although they're talking about someone who isn't even an MP being leader so who knows what they're thinking? 🤷♂️
Er, can you imagine the utter humiliation if the UK Prime Minister
Yeah it's unlikely and would be completely uprecedented. I doubt the labour party would elect him leader in any case for exactly this reason. Although they're talking about someone who isn't even an MP being leader so who knows what they're thinking? 🤷♂️
What timing. It means they're seriously dreading the budget.
I do wonder who is actually pushing these rumours. Whether it is Streeting testing the water or if it is Starmer and co trying to confuse things and undermine a leadership challenge before it gets started.
Saw much the same with Burnham around the conference period with the odd idea he was starting to run for leadership without having sorted out the reentry into parliament first.
I can't fill the blanks in on that @kelvin?
In "my opinion"... a later election would have seen Reform performing far better in seat count (for USA Social Media reasons), maybe even enough for them to be able for help force another general election this year. Sunak called it early to reduce the damage on his parliamentary party... as sentiment was only going in one way as regards Conservatives voters and media moving to Reform... but I think it also bought us a short respite from the UK going over the edge. A respite that Labour are wasting? Yeah, I'd agree with you and other posters on that bit.
I wonder if frequence of challenging and swapping leaders is now going to be the new norm based on the restlessness of everything?
It would take some amazing leader to stay the distance in this climate.
I don't think Labour will swap leaders until/unless they lose a General Election. And by lose I mean are no longer the largest party on seat count. Mostly because you need to have a plan for a new team to replace the current top team... and I don't see one coming from current MPs... and partly because there is no experience of Labour replacing their leader while in government, and then going on to electoral success. Nothing about the current situation would really be any better with a different leader... yeah, some better choices might be made, but the UKs current predicaments will still exist, and its problems firmly stuck on any Labour leader's shoulders. See the current prisoner release stuff for the perfect example of that.
It does appear that a large majority seems to be an open invitation to turn your attention to factional warfare.
Maybe a hung parliament would be a blessing in putting a stop to it? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part and this is just the way things are now?
Nothing about the current situation would really be any better with a different leader
The 'current' situation is partly of Labour's making so it follows a different version of Labour could create a different climate?
I know what you mean but pretending Labour are somehow seperate from the current situation makes no sense to me.
I mean had Starmer carried through with his 10 pledges - do you honestly think they would be as doing as badly? Same goes for all the mis-steps too - and the particulalrly stupid 'late' budget shenanigans. It's all helped make a mess of it.
It does appear that a large majority seems to be an open invitation to turn your attention to factional warfare.
Maybe a hung parliament would be a blessing in putting a stop to it? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part and this is just the way things are now?
I think lots of things have run their course that need proper change.