Double post
Meanwhile at local government level...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g2qxr79gdo
Possibly realised that he might have to do some actual work, meet the constituents, be held accountable...
What would you do?
KIll more than 1.5bn. cows?
Err, you know they're going to be killed anyway? I'd stop breeding more of them then people wouldn't eat them and we wouldn't have to be arguing about it. That's what I'd do. 🙂
Farming is essential to maintain our soil and biodiversity
Amazing how the living planet survived for hundreds of millions of years before farming was invented around 10,000 years ago. Honestly farmers have an amazingly deluded sense of their own importance. 🙄
Err, you know they're going to be killed anyway? I'd stop breeding more of them then people wouldn't eat them and we wouldn't have to be arguing about it. That's what I'd do. 🙂
8.2bn people are going to die anyway. Try making it a policy though...
Amazing how the living planet survived for hundreds of millions of years before farming was invented around 10,000 years ago. Honestly farmers have an amazingly deluded sense of their own importance. 🙄
Substitute "people" for "farmers(ing)"
Farming is essential to maintain our soil and biodiversity, if for no other reason than farmers irrigating fields and providing water for livestock to survive
Bollox
Farming is essential to maintain our soil and biodiversity, if for no other reason than farmers irrigating fields and providing water for livestock to survive
Current soil and current (massively depleted) biodiversity maybe.
But looked at objectively, farming is inherently hostile to biodiversity. Arable is all about creating monocultures. Livestock is preserving prey species until they achieve the desired productivity before being slaughtered. The very fact that farms have been incentivised to do set-aside and have had to be banned from innumerable practices shows this.
That original statement is such horseshit that I wouldn't be surprised to see it being sprayed on a field.
🤦♂️
Don't worry everyone. This is just a mid point on the way to a socialist utopia.
Farming is essential to maintain our soil and biodiversity, if for no other reason than farmers irrigating fields and providing water for livestock to survive
Current soil and current (massively depleted) biodiversity maybe.
But looked at objectively, farming is inherently hostile to biodiversity. Arable is all about creating monocultures. Livestock is preserving prey species until they achieve the desired productivity before being slaughtered. The very fact that farms have been incentivised to do set-aside and have had to be banned from innumerable practices shows this.
That original statement is such horseshit that I wouldn't be surprised to see it being sprayed on a field.
🤦♂️
That original statement is correct, as you said.
Nobody doubts that industrial-scale agriculture promoted by governments around the world is a bad thing, unless you happen to be earning mega£££ from poor practices.
You have to start from the point that for the human race to survive we need farmers and farming and we need to improve our soils and biodiversity, but industrial strength agriculture, fishing, etc is not the way to do it.
There's little point having a discussion if "bollox" and "horseshit" are seen as constructive comments so I'll leave you with this,
Biodiversity relies on agriculture: In the EU, agriculture supports and shapes a wide variety of habitats, plants, pollinators, animals, fungi and microorganisms. According to the European environment agency (EEA), 50% of all species in the EU rely upon on agricultural habitats. The EEA identified 63 habitat types that depend upon, or can profit from, agricultural activities – mainly low-intensity grazing and mowing. https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/cap-my-country/sustainability/environmental-sustainability/biodiversity_en
And this example from the Burren Programme (BP) in Eire
As may be seen above and below, BP Year 6 resulted in a continuation of Year 5’s strong improvement in I-1 scores, continuing a decade long trend of positive environmental performance.
Improved incentives, increased I-2 works and better engagement by more farmers, all contributed to this positive outcome, while mild weather conditions also played a part in the improved grazing regimes. Some farms remain stable in terms of I-1 scores, or have seen slight reductions, which is a reminder that complacency can quickly undo much of the good work done thus far.
It's also relevant to a UK Government thread where they're free to promote farming and fisheries schemes
The Burren eh, I used to go caving there and being a geologist took more than a passing interest in the geology, glaciations and the impact of man on the landscape.
Just a taster from Wiki because if ever there was an example where human activity has turned a lush productive varied landscape barren it's the Burren. It's also a dramatic example of how intensive farming can so degrade soils that the human population it can support declines dramatically. See also the Mediterranean bassin especially on the North African side.
Pollen analysis indicates that in the Mesolithic period of 8000 to 7000 BC The Burren looked completely different from today, with most of the uplands covered in a mixture of deciduous, pine and yew trees. No clear evidence of Mesolithic settlements or camp sites in the area has yet been discovered. At the limits of the region, near Lake Inchiquin and at the so-called "Doolin Axe Factory", stone artifacts have been discovered that may be Mesolithic in origin. However, by the Neolithic, c. 4000 BC, settlers had clearly arrived and began changing the landscape through deforestation, likely by overgrazing and burning, and the building of stone walls.
Talking of biodiversity, solar panel farms are also bad for their immediate environment. Resistance to them being built is one thing reform and environmentalists have in common. Reasons differ obviously. Environmentalists don't want them built in biodiverse areas (usually seen as wasted land by those in power) and instead want them on all new buildings by default. Reform don't want solar panel farms because Reform are dicks.
What I do notice around our way is its the big land-owners and estates clearly benefitting from solar panels.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1921454888766112166?t=sn1eVXzfoJexhoflRZO__A&s=19
Is this it now - modern politics simply arguing about migration numbers and the sentiment of people coming over here taking our jobs?
This debate is unwinnable in this context.
Is this it now - modern politics simply arguing about migration numbers and the sentiment of people coming over here taking our jobs?
It has been since 2016. Well, long long before that, but it's taken up a ridiculous proportion of all the political and media air since then.
Is this it now - modern politics simply arguing about migration numbers and the sentiment of people coming over here taking our jobs?
It has been since 2016. Well, long long before that, but it's taken up a ridiculous proportion of all the political and media air since then.
It's a useful smokescreen/scapegoat for (all) governments failure to deliver on anything else.
Very naive of Labour to think they can win this battle. They need to work on delivering the things that actually matter to people's every day lives, which probably needs needs those migrant workers.
There is a big chunk of the UK population that would still want migrants living in tents even if they were living in opulent luxury themselves. Depressing. And repeated across the developed world.
Talking of biodiversity, solar panel farms are also bad for their immediate environment.
Not really. Typically, new solar farms will deliver increased biodiversity where they're installed.
Talking of biodiversity, solar panel farms are also bad for their immediate environment. Resistance to them being built is one thing reform and environmentalists have in common. Reasons differ obviously.
eh? If its done on farmland that already grows leafy salads or some fruits etc, it's a win/win.
Yep, sheep do like the grassy fields and shade that solar farms provide round here. OK, so not biodiversity as such, but not the end of the farming industry that the Mail has convinced my parents will be the outcome.
Anyway, these solar farms are definitely working, gorgeous crop of sunshine the last couple weeks. Prefer them to the wind farms generating all that wind.
Very naive of Labour to think they can win this battle. They need to work on delivering the things that actually matter to people's every day lives, which probably needs needs those migrant workers.
Utterly.
There is a big chunk of the UK population that would still want migrants living in tents even if they were living in opulent luxury themselves. Depressing. And repeated across the developed world.
Maybe so. I'd like to think a Labour government might challenge this though rather than encourage it.
They are in power to improve things.
Government sets the rules by which we all have to play.
I'd like to think a Labour government might challenge this though rather than encourage it.
I assumed he was talking about the current labour government and its supporters, it is after all the government are the ones driving the current crop of racist rhetoric and policy, and their supporters making excuses, obfuscating and trying to pass the blame for that rhetoric and policy.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1921454888766112166?t=sn1eVXzfoJexhoflRZO__A&s=19
Is this it now - modern politics simply arguing about migration numbers and the sentiment of people coming over here taking our jobs?
This debate is unwinnable in this context.
For such bullshit he fully deserves a slap in the face, kicked in the balls then a final slap in the face.
What a ****
The Tories lost control of our borders and let net migration soar to record levels, undercutting hardworking Brits.
Are there really any voters who are likely to believe that the Tories were relatively soft on immigration and that a Labour government will be significantly tougher?
I mean I am willing to believe that this current so-called Labour government is capable of anything, after all Starmer claims to have changed Labour's DNA so it is obviously no longer the party that we once knew, but Starmer is going to have to do some spectacular stuff to convince voters that he is tougher on immigration than the Tories.
And if being tough on immigration is as important as Starmer claims it is then he is going to have to convince voters that he is also tougher on the issue than Nigel Farage and Reform are, otherwise he is simply providing them with ammunition for them to use against himself. Plus not forgetting that Reform are at least as much of a threat to Labour now as the Tories are.
And all this from a man who during the Labour leadership contest pledged a commitment to "free movement".
It's a pity that there isn't a Nobel Prize for Political Acrobatics.
Quietly increasing/decreasing immigration (but always allowing it) according to real requirements, then scapegoating and marginalising those immigrants for political purposes is standard practice in mainstream UK politics now. It is just tone and vehemence of the scapegoating that varies, between parties, within parties and according to political necessity.
It is just where we are as a society right now.
I find the politics around immagration really frustrating -
Firstly it's we need to stop workers coming in & taking our jobs, now it's we want only degree level people coming, we want to be a nation of shelf stackers, cleaners, bar people, delivery drivers, bulb pickers etc... The whole thing is just so backwards to me.
Then you hear people like Tice shouting we have 9 million people out of work. No challenge on the breakdown of why they are out of work, or what they are doing instead.
If we have 9 million vacancies for something would those 9 million people be able to do that job? No. A lot would be unsuitable.
Build native workers up, give them something to aim for. Be better.
Just listening to Starmer now.
Reform government in 2029 it is then.
🤷♂️
Firstly it's we need to stop workers coming in & taking our jobs, now it's we want only degree level people coming, we want to be a nation of shelf stackers, cleaners, bar people, delivery drivers, bulb pickers etc... The whole thing is just so backwards to me.
Yup, it's just bizarre. The huge postwar immigration into the UK (as indeed many other European countries) was designed to attract unskilled or semiskilled labour to do the sort of crap jobs that no one else wanted to do.
Now we have the Tories, Reform, and lately Labour, all arguing that well paid professional jobs should be prioritised for foreigners whilst low paid crap jobs should be reserved for Brits.
How patriotic of them !
Whilst I am not happy about the anti-immigration rhetoric, because it clearly stokes xenophobia, I can see why they've done it. If they don't get immigration down, then both Reform and the Tories will use it against them. If they can get it down, they can point to the Tories not having done that at the last election.
It's terrible, but that's democracy for you. People associate the term with progressive government, but all it does is deliver what most people who vote think they want. That's our biggest problem by far.
Its a stupid and self defeating pokicy.
Immigrants are essential to the economy.
Its also almost impossible to reduce numbers so its likely to fail.
Ok Keir, that's the hard line message on immigration done. Now can we have the progressive economic policies and redistributive taxes which the blue labour manifesto calls for? I doubt it. 🙄
Someone on Bluesky described this as a gambit from SKS to stay as PM, a job he isn’t very good at and has no ambition to do anything with.
It’s hard to shake the idea this is right.
Its a stupid and self defeating pokicy.
Might be necessary though. If they don't do something about it then they're probably dead. They haven't got the charisma and skill to persuade everyone that immigrats are not the problem after all - not in the current climate. I wish they did.
Someone on Bluesky described this as a gambit from SKS to stay as PM
No, for Labour to stay in Government. As upset as I am about this I'd still far rather them than Reform or Tories.
As upset as I am about this I'd still far rather them than Reform or Tories.
Why, what do you think differentiates them, other than personality.
For me it is far worse that labour are being lead by politicians that are encouraging racism rather than fighting it, it removes any counterpoint to the argument of racists and populists, and concretes it in as a policy that no one is offering to change or oppose.
SKS isn't a disappointment, he is an right wing zealot who is destroying labour.
The nhs needs immigrants
Without them nhs issues get worse abd labour will fail anyway
Its also pandering to the far right and giving them legitimacy
I keep being told Scotland is no different to the rest of the Uk. But a pro Europe pro immigration party has been in government in Scotland for 15 years and now looks nailed on to continue
Something doesn't add up
Londoners could probably say the same, but your point still stands.
I discovered yesterday just how much the anti-immigration racist message from Reform and others has become the norm. While riding my bike down the canal I met a group of teenage lads going the other way on their mountain bikes. I said hello as I normally do and they all responded cheerily with the greeting of 'White Power!'. If teenagers are now using that as a greeting to strangers and thinking there's nothing wrong with it then Starmer has got big problems on his hands.
I keep being told Scotland is no different to the rest of the Uk.
You keep being told that your obsession and relentless remarks concerning Scotland are mostly not very useful on a thread about the UK government.
Every part of the UK has its unique characteristics, not just Scotland. Reform's highest level of support appears to be in Northern England, perhaps an interesting observation but unless you can figure out a way to exclude Northern England from UK national politics not particularly useful, beyond a bit of cheap point scoring.
It’s hard to shake the idea this is right.
I read Get In a couple of weeks back. Whilst there is some obvious bias from the sources used (Sue Gray and allies definitely didnt have any input) Starmer really does come across like both Cameron and Johnson. Likes the idea of being PM but has absolutely nothing beyond that. No strategy or plan but just a feeling that they would be good at the job.
McSweeney (who definitely had his own or close allies input and still comes across problematically) comes across as just hating the "hard left" and beyond that not having much of a strategy or plan either. He also comes across as overly led by focus groups which means anything heavily splashed by the media becomes his guiding star.
Ok Keir, that's the hard line message on immigration done.
Hard line? The aim is to reduce immigration isn't it? Not eliminate it. The challenge though is ensuring the requirements of industries currently heavily reliant on immigration can be covered. That I'm not convinced of.
If they don't get immigration down, then both Reform and the Tories will use it against them. If they can get it down, they can point to the Tories not having done that at the last election.
The numbers will never really matter and will never be enough.
When did facts hold up in today's politics?
That he singled out engineers was interesting/terrifying.
That he singled out engineers was interesting/terrifying. Government plans require them. Deterring them from working here is self defeating (just an example, I know the same is true across society).
For me it is far worse that labour are being lead by politicians that are encouraging racism rather than fighting it, it removes any counterpoint to the argument of racists and populists, and concretes it in as a policy that no one is offering to change or oppose.
This.
Labour aren't interested in changing narratives just second guessing - what would Reform do?
This won't work on that level. There is no migrant number that will suddenly stop racists being racist.
But then that's Labour for you they will go anywhere but solutions.
Reform is a voting badge and Labour are not going to pull those numbers by debasing themselves.
I know I'm wasting my time, trying to make sense of something that is nonsensical, but the singling out of foreign care workers yesterday baffled me. People who want to come here, legally (not in boats) to do low-paid, often thankless jobs, and Labour don't want them. Eh???
It's all starting to remind me of the Tories ten years ago, when I wondered if it was government policy to attract in graduates/skilled people from overseas to do jobs that require qualifications, and have UK residents to do all of the low-paid work, such as stacking shelves/picking vegetables. Don't need qualifications for that, so why not make cutbacks in education here and let other countries pay for educating our skilled workers?
It's all starting to remind me of the Tories ten years ago, when I wondered if it was government policy to attract in graduates/skilled people from overseas to do jobs that require qualifications, and have UK residents to do all of the low-paid work, such as stacking shelves/picking vegetables. Don't need qualifications for that, so why not make cutbacks in education here and let other countries pay for educating our skilled workers?
If your interest is staying in power then an uneducated electorate is helpful for that.
The point is ernie that Scotland is a part of the UK. When you say something is happening in the UK but it does not apply to Scotland then actually you are not talking about the UK
Say England when you are talking about england
The other aspect is that the Scottish experience has lessons for the rest of the Uk. A pro European pro immigration party can have resonance with the electorate
The other aspect is that the Scottish experience has lessons for the rest of the Uk. A pro European pro immigration party can have resonance with the electorate
A nationalist separatist party, there is little difference in the mindset of the Scottish and English, it is just that the Scottish direct their hatred towards the English primarily (no matter how much you believe in Scottish exceptionalism which in itself is a manifestation of racism).
I have said this before, driving a German registered car throughout the UK, Scotland is the only nation where I experienced verbal racism directed at me, and it happened 3 times. So my personal experience is that Scotland is more racist than the rest of the UK.
Don't need qualifications for that, so why not make cutbacks in education here and let other countries pay for educating our skilled workers?
It's all very well reducing immigration but he's going to get quite a shock at how much it's going to cost to get people already here to do all these jobs. Skilled jobs will require training and education which costs a lot of money. Unskilled jobs are going to require higher wages, especially in the care industry. He probably thinks he can squeeze benefits to force people on on benefits to take them up but that's obviously not going to work. Rachel from accounts is not going to like it.
When you say something is happening in the UK but it does not apply to Scotland then actually you are not talking about the UK
Yes the head of the UK government said something today and yes it applies to the whole of the UK including Scotland.
The other aspect is that the Scottish experience has lessons for the rest of the Uk. A pro European pro immigration party can have resonance with the electorate
A nationalist separatist party, there is little difference in the mindset of the Scottish and English, it is just that the Scottish direct their hatred towards the English primarily (no matter how much you believe in Scottish exceptionalism which in itself is a manifestation of racism).
I have said this before, driving a German registered car throughout the UK, Scotland is the only nation where I experienced verbal racism directed at me, and it happened 3 times. So my personal experience is that Scotland is more racist than the rest of the UK.
😆
The other aspect is that the Scottish experience has lessons for the rest of the Uk. A pro European pro immigration party can have resonance with the electorate
A nationalist separatist party, there is little difference in the mindset of the Scottish and English, it is just that the Scottish direct their hatred towards the English primarily (no matter how much you believe in Scottish exceptionalism which in itself is a manifestation of racism).
I have said this before, driving a German registered car throughout the UK, Scotland is the only nation where I experienced verbal racism directed at me, and it happened 3 times. So my personal experience is that Scotland is more racist than the rest of the UK.
😆
As a country, we have become incredibly reliant on immigration. If you want to reduce legal migration, there has to be the opportunity and incentive for people already here to take up jobs. The construction industry has a skills shortage, but construction T levels have been dropped due to lack of take up. We only train around 1,100 dentist a year, but there are almost 3,000 dentist vacancies.
I think it's worthwhile pointing out that Labour's manifesto (which they were elected on) included reducing (legal) immigration. So it shouldn't come as a surprise.
I think it's worthwhile pointing out that Labour's manifesto (which they were elected on) included reducing (legal) immigration. So it shouldn't come as a surprise.
Labour's manifesto included a lot of stuff, some of which Starmer clearly couldn't give a monkeys about. I think what is surprising is that Starmer appears to be attaching so much importance to an issue which is absolutely central to Nigel Farage but actually has far less relevance to the lives of ordinary people than he makes out.
I have absolutely no problem with a government aiming to reduce net migration, there is probably a reasonable case for doing so. What I have a problem with is governments using immigrants as scapegoats for their own failures, adding to the anti-immigrant and anti-refugee rhetoric which has gripped Europe and the United States thus creating a climate of fear and hatred, and using the issue in a desperate attempt to scrape the gutter looking for easy votes.
The reason that many voters consider immigration to be such an important issue, more important than the economy, the NHS, the environment, law and order, etc, is because the Tories, Reform, and now "Labour", keeps telling them that it is really important.
And the most important point which Starmer, McSweeney, and all the other herberts who are detached from the lives of ordinary working people fail to understand, is that only one politician can win playing this game...... Nigel Farage.
The construction industry has a skills shortage, but construction T levels have been dropped due to lack of take up. We only train around 1,100 dentist a year, but there are almost 3,000 dentist vacancies.
It's a combination of low wages (in the case of manual jobs) and the cost of training in the case of dentists, nurses and doctors etc. Who's going to borrow 100k on student loans to be a student doctor working 60 hour weeks for 40k? If the govt wants more nurses, dentists and doctors (and teachers, which they're going to need), they need to pay for the training*. Also, now we're in the second generation of Thatcher's home ownership revolution many kids today come from families with some money behind them. Why would they work for minimum wage in the care sector when they can get by on inheritances and the bank of mum and dad? You can't force people to work if the financial benefits of working don't add up.
*Or even better, pay them a salary while they study. In the engineering sector we've got some degree apprenticeships and they've been hugely successful and massively over-subscribed with applicants.
Island of Strangers = Citizens of Nowhere.
Both from fundamentally cowardly politicians trying to ride the wave of post-Brexit overt populism and failing.
FFS.
I know quite a few people who used to work in the care industry.
All of whom quit to work in different sectors as with the hours and responsibilities, and the very low wages it just wasn't economically viable for them.
So I'm not sure who's going to be be filling in the gaps if the only immigration allowed is for people who have degrees or or specialist skills.
All of whom quit to work in different sectors as with the hours and responsibilities, and the very low wages it just wasn't economically viable for them.
There's massive competition for labour across all sectors. One of my mates recently got a job as a trainee probation officer. No experience necessary, just an education and willingness to do the job. Salary at 25k though is ridiculous and not worth the demands of the job and the effort put into training. She's gonna quit as soon as something else comes up. At some point Labour or whoever is the next govt is going to have to confront the public/third sector salary problem if they want to avoid bringing in cheap foreign workers. The only way to solve the immigration 'problem' is to start taxing the rich more and redistributing that money to public sector workers.
The reason that many voters consider immigration to be such an important issue, more important than the economy, the NHS, the environment, law and order, etc, is because the Tories, Reform, and now "Labour", keeps telling them that it is really important
This.
What we've got now is an act of desperation, probably following those elections as Labour realise how desperately unpopular they are.
This is not the vantage point to be looking at migration from. And given what a mess Labour are making of almost anything they touch - I pretty much expect the same here.
This feels like a very much desperate attempt to recover that sentiment.
What Labour are good at though is boxing themselves in. Any idea that Starmer was or is pro EU needs to be flushed down the drain.
He's probably 'pro' whatever thinks we win him an election.
Spend some money you absolute bone-heads and get the economy going! Now everyone's focussed on migration - cos everything else is in the shitter.
Cold War Steve on point as usual, it’s titled “metamorphose”
https://twitter.com/coldwarsteve/status/1921639175977152585
He's probably 'pro' whatever thinks we win him an election.
Well he’s resolutely pro-Zionist, and that looks like a vote loser for him, so there are limits to his vote chasing.
Apparently there has been a fire at SKS's home, I imagine he tried to make a bowl of cornflakes and ****ed it up
He's probably 'pro' whatever thinks we win him an election.
Is that not the entire point of democracy?
He hasn't got the skill to change people's minds, and he knows this. Especially when you consider the tactics that the other two parties are going to deploy in response. Politics isn't about standing up and saying what you want and hoping enough people agree with you.
@tjagain shut up about Scotland. Yes, a pro European party has been in government for years but is it because they are pro-European, or because they are pro something else? Don't answer that.
Why, what do you think differentiates them, other than personality.
I think that Tories are grossly incompetent (they didn't actually DO anything in the last decade) and Reform are just chancers with no clue about how to run a country. Labour are more like the first Cameron govt currently, I reckon, which is shit and I would not vote for out of choice, but a vote against Labour is a vote for Farage as PM so...
Well unless the Libdems or Greens properly get their act together, I won't be voting at the next GE.
What's the ****ing point?
Yep, and that also seams to be a SKS labour tactic, they would rather disenfranchise millions of voters to chase a few thousand racists than actually offer hope to the nation with some progressive policies such is their hatred of left leaning politics.
What do.you mean "get their act together"?
What do the LibDems and Greens need to do to enjoy the privilege of your vote?
What I have a problem with is governments using immigrants as scapegoats for their own failures, adding to the anti-immigrant and anti-refugee rhetoric which has gripped Europe and the United States thus creating a climate of fear and hatred, and using the issue in a desperate attempt to scrape the gutter looking for easy votes.
My issue is more a practical one if I'm honest. The uk needs these workers. The very same people who will be complaining now will be complaining even more when they are lying in their own shit as noone will be available to change their bedsheets.
There should be absolutely zero limit on immigration if the folks coming over here are filling jobs that either we don't have the skills to fill, or folks are just too lazy to do.
Is that not the entire point of democracy?
Well that's what I thought. The level of immigration over the past few years has been massively higher than previously. Is that level of immigration necessary? If so why wasn't it previously? Of course the huge increase was due to a deliberate Tory policy to increase the number of study and work visas available. The study visas to increase university income and work visas presumably to supply cheap labour to British companies to the detriment of UK workers.
It seems strange to me that Labour are now being criticised for applying a policy which they laid out before the election and presumably assisted them in becoming elected.
I am not opposed to immigration, but the numbers seem crazy at the moment. As I said earlier is the current level of immigration necessary? If we say yes we need cheap labour and overseas student fees, then OK immigration has to stay at current levels, a case has to be made for it and we need to suck it up.
I am not opposed to immigration, but the numbers seem crazy at the moment. As I said earlier is the current level of immigration necessary? If we say yes we need cheap labour and overseas student fees, then OK immigration has to stay at current levels, a case has to be made for it and we need to suck it up.
The number is the number, nothing crazy about it and nothing wrong with it. Yes the current level of visa issuing is fairly necessary as a lot are in health and care sector and very much needed.
You clearly have a number in your head and it is lower but what are you basing that on?
We are getting more people in need of care and care jobs are not something enough UK people are interested in because it is low paid and not an attractive job. If we paid much better rates to care workers then the councils would be even more screwed unless of course all those anti immigrant people want to pay a lot more council tax to allow it to happen?
Immigration needs to be explained, every week, for the next 4 years to get people to understand it is not an issue unless you are racist and a lost cause. Unfortunately Starmer has joined in with the Farage/Tory side so no chance of that.
work visas presumably to supply cheap labour to British companies to the detriment of UK workers.
When people come here to work do they not then become UK workers?
And universities absolutely do need foreign students, their whole business model is based on it since they don't get enough funding from the UK govt. They are already in dire straits because of Brexit.
Fine, in that case the immigration levels are OK, Labour shouldn't have put a reduction in their manifesto and shouldn't be looking to reduce immigration levels now.
Yeah, what the chuff is Starmer playing at?
I think he's doing a pretty decent job on the world stage, but on domestic issues, this 'neo-tory/reform' rhetoric on immigration... it's not cool, not cool at all.
Any more thoughts on what “an island of strangers” means? I can’t get past the idea it’s just about everyone looking, sounding and thinking the same. The alternative cannot be about us all “knowing” each other… it must be about us thinking that we are all similar. Count me out.
Any more thoughts on what “an island of strangers” means?
It means UK politics has been infantilised to the point where all the top dogs think a slogan is all that is needed. Typically of a man who has no apparent political beliefs of his own, Starmer has still ****ed it up because it is 5 whole words and not 3 as mandated by Dominic Cummings.
Hey we will soon be a year in!
That's gone quick.
(James O'Brien still picking through the bones of Starmer's smartest moves is starting to look increasingly embarrassing.)
Any more thoughts on what “an island of strangers” means? I can’t get past the idea it’s just about everyone looking, sounding and thinking the same. The alternative cannot be about us all “knowing” each other… it must be about us thinking that we are all similar. Count me out.
As someone above alluded to, sorry I can't be bothered to scroll back up to check... it's very reminiscent of May's 'citizens of nowhere' sound byte... deeply worrying and offensive language.
I think it's clear Starmer is trying to play 'both sides of the fence' to us, his domestic audience but that's a splinter too far for me... and you have to get off the fence sooner or later.
All this tory-esque language will just make the labour party 3rd place after the tories and reform in the race to be as right wing as possible.
He might gain some votes back from racist labour defectors in the electorate who voted reform in the recent locals, but it's not enough to win as a strategy, and it's morally bankrupt.
it will be interesting to see if they do anything about ISAs in the autumn budget... it wouldn't supprise me if they scupper them and force normal savers into savings accounts that you have to pay tax on....or as has been suggested, keep the 20k tax allowanve as long as it's invested in UK equities.
The huge problem with that is no one person in thier right mind is going to invest £20k in the UK unless it's part of a much broader and larger global investment portfolio.