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I wonder what the death toll will be when the inauguration rolls around.
Using the current daily death count of 1,500 for 50 days would take the total to 345,000.
I honestly think that Trump should be tried for some sort of war-crimes-scale criminal neglect after all this is settled. He's diverting all his energy into this futile time-wasting fundraising mess, while thousands die. At least the transition has begun now, but how many lives did the delay cost?
He literally does not care about the people that are dying. He beat it and people that catch it and die are losers and little people. All that matters now is spoiling the toyset for the person that beat him and making as much money as possible from his suckers/supporters as possible to pay off his debts.
His time is done, it's just a process now. What matters is the people that have seen what works and what does not and are prepared to use the successful parts next time around. 2024 will be messy.
Some Republicans are - literally putting their heads above the parapet. Interesting he's calling on senators and other high ranking Republicans to stop this insanity
BBC News - Trump inciting violence, warns Georgia election official
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55153918
got flynn and some nuts ex air force general throwing their weight behind the CIA servers siezed in frankfurt conspiracy theory (now claiming special forces servicemen died in the op and being covered up by a helicopter crash in Egypt).
Some Republicans are – literally putting their heads above the parapet.
This is good, as is Bill Barr (finally) speaking out. But where are the real Republican voices here? The Senators / Congress(wo)men? Keeping spinelessly quiet.
What I don't understand is why they think this is a good play. People will remember this. Anyone on the fence of the political divide in 2024 (when Trump's unseemliness is hopefully no longer an issue) will surely remember how their Congresspeople and Senators stood idly by while democracy was being pulled apart? It's a national disgrace for them!
Four years time people will have forgotten.
And Donnie will be running again...
What I don’t understand is why they think this is a good play. People will remember this. Anyone on the fence of the political divide in 2024 (when Trump’s unseemliness is hopefully no longer an issue) will surely remember how their Congresspeople and Senators stood idly by while democracy was being pulled apart? It’s a national disgrace for them!
Because a large proportion of Republican voters are dead-end Trumpists. In order to run for office as a Republican, you have to win a primary election, which means that you need a majority of Republican voters to support you. If you get offside with Trump, you will probably be faced with a primary opponent endorsed by Trump, which means your career is dead in the water. Safest thing to do is to just keep your head down and pretend you know nothing about anything. "Sorry, I don't follow Twitter, or Facebook, or read any newspapers, or watch any tv, or talk to anybody, so I'm not going to comment on something I haven't seen. Next question please."
In order to run for office as a Republican, you have to win a primary election, which means that you need a majority of Republican voters to support you.
I suppose the Republican 'brand' has been forever altered by plenty of moderate voters being pushed towards Dems but a larger number of previously-disenfranchised voters being drawn to Trumpism. So they do have to maintain the base popularity.
But surely Trump is a spent force now? Are there any primaries coming up before he leaves office? I would have thought these people running for hypothetical office can support 'Trumpism' (as far as I can see this would be isolationism, science denial and racism) therefore keeping the base on board without propping up the man himself?
But surely Trump is a spent force now?
You've seen all those supporters ranting on about electoral fraud? How can that be a spent force?
Churchill is still strongly influencing UK politics 70 years later, don't forget.
But surely Trump is a spent force now?
He owns the Republican Party now because the base voters adore him. People like Lindsey Graham know he's a fraud, but they're too scared of him to cross him.
I suppose the Republican ‘brand’ ...disenfranchised voters being drawn to Trumpism. So they do have to maintain the base popularity
I would guess that a significant number of Trumpers are ex Tea Party. I think the GOP embraced them in 2008 as they had lost a lot of middle ground voters. Trump tapped into that anti govt/establishment sentiment with "Drain the Swamp" rhetoric.
Four years time people will have forgotten.
Sadly, the way gaslighting works, in four years time people will have forgotten it was all complete bollocks and the spoken-history will be that the nasty Dems stole the election with fraud.
Even if the whole thing was thoroughly and completely debunked and Trump jailed, there will still be a significant number that think that was just to cover it up. 🙄
Expect actual fraud next time. "Well, they did it to us; we'll do it to them". This is why tit-for-tat is never a good idea, btw.
Krebs:
..tell your supporters, don't be violent, don't intimidate. All that's wrong, it's un-American.
The thing is, Krebs, it IS American. Through and through.
I would guess that a significant number of Trumpers are ex Tea Party. I think the GOP embraced them in 2008 as they had lost a lot of middle ground voters. Trump tapped into that anti govt/establishment sentiment with “Drain the Swamp” rhetoric.
They've probably got time to dust off Sarah Palin?
A Gun-Lovin, Alaskan, Soccer Mom with Big Oil connections would go down a storm with both the GOP faithful and Swivel eyed, swamp drainers.
They'd also love to beat the Dem's in getting the first lady president...
Most critically though She'd be easier to steer/keep on message than Donald ever was.
"Voter Fraud" sideshow apart the leadership of the Republican party will privately be regretting taking power with a puppet that they couldn't actually control.
I reckon The GOP will make efforts to keep The Donald's hat our of the ring in 2024, He'd just be too much of a liability (again).
There will be significant effort put into finding a candidate that can tap into the Alt Right/anti-establishment vein of voters in the US, while also being controllable...
“Voter Fraud” sideshow apart the leadership of the Republican party will privately be regretting taking power with a puppet that they couldn’t actually control.
Yes I think they'll be taking a leaf out of the Tory party's book there next time around.
Joseph diGenova suggested that Chris Krebs “should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot”
He's clearly not done a Time and Motion Study on that threat. Drawn and quartered - then wait til the next morning - then drag all the bits outside and shoot them four times? Madness.
Isn't "Dawn and Shot" a restaurant in Washington?
Most critically though She’d be easier to steer/keep on message than Donald ever was.
You haven't seen her recent videos? I think something has snapped.
I don't pretend to understand politics greatly but shouldn't more Republicans should be standing up against this nonsense?
My view is that Trumps insistence of voter fraud can only damage the next election for the GOP, brainwashing his followers that the election is rigged can only be seeding voter apathy for the core party voters damaging whoever is put forward for them next time around - "it's all rigged, I'm not even going to bother to vote" type thing?
My view is that Trumps insistence of voter fraud can only damage the next election for the GOP, brainwashing his followers that the election is rigged can only be seeding voter apathy for the core party voters damaging whoever is put forward for them next time around – “it’s all rigged, I’m not even going to bother to vote” type thing?
Quite possibly, but nobody knows anything about poilitics any more so...
I agree with you it's surprising fewer Republicans aren't speaking up, but I guess they are a bit scared of him and of falling out of favour with his supporters (Trump appears to be more popular than the Republican party, IYKWIM).
I'm disappointed not to have seen more coverage of how many Americans really believe him. Heard a few of his supporters interviewed on the BBC and they sounded deluded and quite hard-of-thinking TBH. But they can't have been representative, can they?
Anyone seen any polling?
(Trump appears to be more popular than the Republican party, IYKWIM).
As with all populist movements, the charismatic strong man leader is always more popular than the party.
I’m disappointed not to have seen more coverage of how many Americans really believe him. Heard a few of his supporters interviewed on the BBC and they sounded deluded and quite hard-of-thinking TBH. But they can’t have been representative, can they?
And here lies the problem with the media and populism, or actually how they are getting away with it. The media are not covering reality, they are giving disproportionate time to the vocal nut cases because its entertainment, news channels aren't competing to be correct, they just want to drive viewing figures through shock and hate. Unfortunately that is driving change and affecting the democracies they are reporting on.
My view is that Trumps insistence of voter fraud can only damage the next election for the GOP
Yes, it should work like that, but the difference here is that his message (and the one they're swallowing) is that it's Democrat fraud, where as all the Republican votes are honest and valid.
That's why they wanted to 'stop the count' in states where it was going their way, but 'count every vote' in ones where they were behind. And the scary thing is that that wasn't a childish contradiction in their eyes, it was deliberate messaging.
So what they're aiming for is riling up their base to get them acting against 'the fraud' and the cheating Democrats, so it's having the opposite effect to what you suggest.
Overall it will damage the electoral process for sure, but not necessarily the GOP, if anything it'll be making Trumpists more likely to turn out next time to (in their eyes) prevent the cheating fraudulent Democrats from stealing it again.
And here lies the problem with the media and populism, or actually how they are getting away with it. The media are not covering reality, they are giving disproportionate time to the vocal nut cases because its entertainment, news channels aren’t competing to be correct, they just want to drive viewing figures through shock and hate. Unfortunately that is driving change and affecting the democracies they are reporting on.
You make a strong point and I agree with the thrust of it, however I'd say much of the coverage around the election was more balanced and representative.
Some journos were trying really hard after last time, but there's just a bit of a blind spot about the issue I highlighted IMO.
I believe drumph knows he's lost and is just keeping all the drama going to maximise the grift.
Trumps needs someone to pay for his election campaign, legal bills and re-counts - if he conceded now the donation would stop. Apparently $150m donated to the 'stop the steal' campaign already.
Yes, I believe I heard only around a third of funds raised is ringfenced for election-related litigation.
And sod knows if he'd honour that anyway.
It comes down to how many of the 70m people that voted were voting explicitly for Trump vs those that were voting Republican (or non-Democrat). I don't think anyone knows that which is why not many GoP congressmen/senators have spoken against Trump as they don't want to lose their seats in the mid-terms. And the trouble is even if it's a 50:50 split of that 70m that's still enough for Trump to cause chaos within the GoP for the next 4 years as they'll still need those votes to secure a lot of seats vs Democrat challengers.
I'm hoping senior GoP members decide the best solution is to kill off Trump, not literally but by cooperating with the investigations that will no doubt follow - even that though would need to be done mostly under-wraps otherwise they'd still end up alienating Trump's base. So chances are they'll do nothing and still support him and it will be the Trump tail wagging the GoP dog for the next 4 years (assuming he doesn't go down to an investigation anyway).
I think he is just promoting the 'vote was stolen' thing to set up 2024. Biden's coalition is based on not being Trump, so although it will fix a lot, it will also fail to meet a lot of expectations as they are just too high. Trump is just getting ready to stomp all over that in a few years.
Further to the point about how much traction Trump's BS is getting among Republicans, the answer appears to be "quite a lot, but nowhere near 100%".
From dantsw13's post above...
https://twitter.com/SJohnsonWPR/status/1333890843757907970?s=20
Litigant named in sidney powell's lawsuit says - I'm not suing; this is nothing to do with me.
That's hilarious
Surely a lawyer naming a plaintiff in a lawsuit without their knowledge is professional misconduct???
https://twitter.com/derrickvanorden/status/1333878883238768642
😳