MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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The Lidl charger near here are free, 22kW and cut off after 30' which seems a reasonable time to do a shop. In Germany they're free, 22kW but if you overstay the 1hr parking limit expect a big bill.
There's public 22kW charger that's 2e the charge at night just up the road. However I'm not going to get out of bed just to charge a car.
We break even at 7000 miles year home charging combined with an average usage of 20kWh/day (bulb/northwest).
We'll see what it looks like when I see the new EV tariff
At 4 miles/kWh you'd have to be paying 64p per kWh to make it more expensive than a diesel doing 50mpg.
At 4 miles/kWh you’d have to be paying 64p per kWh to make it more expensive than a diesel doing 50mpg.
That's in the ballpark for current market rates. Hopefully the rumoured EU interventions will bring the price down.
Just as well ICE cars pay excise duty and large taxes on their fuel or EVs could not compete.
I am still on cheap electricity until July but I had come to the conclusion that it could then be borderline cost wise to charge the Octavia hybrid. I average 3.7 m/kWh or about 51 mpg on Petrol
Just as well ICE cars pay excise duty and large taxes on their fuel or EVs could not compete.
Rumour (political) has it that those taxes may soon be cut, which if it pushes an EV to be more expensive that the equivalent ICE will be a real and perhaps short sighted environmental disaster.
The money saving angle on EVs is an interesting one.
Part of the saving is the increased efficiency over any ICE.
When electricity was ~£0.15/kWh and I had free supercharging the fuel costs were noticeably different from our Diesel MB.
Now? With electricity at ~£0.28/kWh and higher plus having to pay for supercharging I’m not sure there is a great difference.
Still, driving an EV hasn’t ever really been a money-saving proposition.
Once I test drove one, getting back in an ICE was a disappointment. I find EVs more convenient, more fun, and nicer to drive than I ever did ICEs. That and the zero local emissions, lower fuel production emissions, etc would offset higher fuel costs. Though I am very happy to pay less.
Still, driving an EV hasn’t ever really been a money-saving proposition.
I agree with you regarding the actual day to day running of it with current prices, but overall ( having purchased through my LTD company and running it as my company car the savings have been worth it
1. The full value can be used in end of year calcs as capital investment
2. Obviously huge savings on BIK ( until at least 2025)
3. No “luxury car tax “ to pay in years 2-5 ( obviously depends on how much the value of the car is)
Once they stop making ICE then they will change points 2 and 3.
Would be nice if they kept the BIK low for its life to encourage you to keep hold of it longer than the usual 3 years though 😉
Part of the hard sell for EVs for people looking at monthly payments under PCP was that the higher vehicle price and therefore higher monthly payment could be offset with the cost savings of running electric Vs fuel. That's pretty much gone now...
Tesla are still showing a £78 a month reduction in fuel costs for a model 3 rwd compared to a 'typical fuel car'. 🤨
Would be nice if they kept the BIK low for its life to encourage you to keep hold of it longer than the usual 3 years though
Would be nicer if you got a similar benefit outside of company car or self employed writedown schemes.
At 4 miles/kWh you’d have to be paying 64p per kWh to make it more expensive than a diesel doing 50mpg
new cap is 52p/kwh, next cap is projected by some to more than double https://www.itv.com/news/2022-08-27/energy-bills-forecast-to-hit-7700-next-year-in-worst-price-cap-warning-yet
at that point the 4m/kwh car will be costing the equivilent of around 30mpg - ie significantly more than the majority of ICE cars. It might not matter to some people, but I bet it will put a whole load off
That’s in the ballpark for current market rates
Well, it's 3x my standard Octopus variable rate overnight which is 21p.
Part of the hard sell for EVs for people looking at monthly payments under PCP was that the higher vehicle price and therefore higher monthly payment could be offset with the cost savings of running electric Vs fuel.
Well it wasn't quote so much when we got ours about 14 months ago. The supply was still better compared to demand at that time so the lease prices were good based on good projected residuals. The car we got is now 16% more expensive list price and the lease deals are about 50% more.
if it pushes an EV to be more expensive that the equivalent ICE will be a real and perhaps short sighted environmental disaster.
Perhaps, but the supply is currently low, and they are probably selling plenty to those who simply want EVs. Supply will increase, as companies are committed to producing now, so prices will come down. And if demand is low because of higher electricity prices, then car prices will have to come down to suit.
But let's not forget you don't have to pay 50p/kWh - if you want cheap motoring then 7.5p/kWh is still avaialble, if you are doing enough miles. It just raises the mileage at which it becomes cheaper to drive EV.
at that point the 4m/kwh car will be costing the equivilent of around 30mpg
Depends a bit on what sort of driving it is. My diesel can do 55mpg on a trip my EV would get 4.8. However in urban driving it does 30mpg in conditions that the EV would still get 4.8mpg. That said, if you are only doing urban driving your total miles are still low.
And if demand is low because of higher electricity prices, then car prices will have to come down to suit.
Vehicle manufacturers will be soon be absorbing vastly more energy costs to produce vehicles surely, which I’d imagine makes it hard to reduce the cost at the point of sale.
Vehicle manufacturers will be soon be absorbing vastly more energy costs to produce vehicles surely, which I’d imagine makes it hard to reduce the cost at the point of sale.
Mm yeah, true. It will be interesting. That said, if batteries are made elsewhere they may not be exposed to some of it.
All the traditional forecasts were predicting price parity with ICEs pretty soon. Chip shortages scuppered that, but that upward pressure might be replaced by energy costs.
Watching a video of the ID Buzz, thinking this could be an actual rival to the E-Berlingo, but with a bigger battery. I was thinking around £45k starting price, maybe...
£57,000.
FFS. ****ing ridiculous. 😡
The individual cost of running an EV needs to be fiscally adjusted to take account of the increasing evidence of the damage ICEs are doing to our collective health:
Yes but that doesn't change how much money we have available to us.
Watching a video of the ID Buzz, thinking this could be an actual rival to the E-Berlingo, but with a bigger battery. I was thinking around £45k starting price, maybe…
£57,000.
FFS. **** ridiculous. 😡
Did you really expect it to be cheap?! Effectively an electric transporter? They've never been good value!
The other factor for me with the cheap octopus rate when I looked was with limited hours you can only get a % of the battery fully charged during those overnight hours from a low point. So we went for a British Gas fixed as needed low day rates as well.
There’s an ionity fast point next to a work destination I visit often where I have six months of 25p per KWh left. So I’ll be adjusting the % I leave home with down from 100% now I’m over the range anxiety to make max use of that over the winter!
Just got back from my first decent trip in my 6 month hire ETron 55 - about as inefficient as EVs get. 537 miles over the weekend, total cost £48 but could have been £38 with some better planning / trusting the car range etc. half the fuel price of the 45mpg Diesel it replaced.
It’s also an absolutely lovely thing to cruise around in. Comfy, quiet, silly quick when needed (400bhp). Not fun as such mind.
Roll on the i4 which will be most of the above but cheaper still to run and actually fun to drive.
I hope EVs work out for the long term and not just in the current “massive tax break” times, as it’s genuinely a better car than any ICE car I’ve ever driven.
The other factor for me with the cheap octopus rate when I looked was with limited hours you can only get a % of the battery fully charged during those overnight hours from a low point.
(I may have misunderstood this but...)
Isn't that only a factor if you need a fully charged vehicle day in day out ? Very few ever will. Most people would manage for 99% of the time on 4hrs x 3kwh (and that's discounting a 7kwh charger obviously)...which would give 40-50 miles per day. (Or over 100 miles on 4hr x 7kwh)
Most customers (90+%) could get away with a range of about 250-300km a *week*. Never mind a full charge every night.
That's even allowing for all the pointless journeys they do in their cars.
It's quite amazing seeing what customers estimate they do, and how well organised they think are, then pulling the data off the cars and comparing.
Amazing and depressing.
Did you really expect it to be cheap?! Effectively an electric transporter? They’ve never been good value!
Not cheap, no - but a feint ray of hope that it might actually be 'reasonably' priced...
I know, right. How very foolish of me 🤣😣
Add the 2 tone paint and a couple of (the many, many) options and you're north of 60k easily. God knows how much the LWB version will be, or the 300bhp version...
And the seats don't even come out or fold flat!
Saying that, they're very clever on the PCP options, stick down a 20k deposit and it's 'only' £270* a month over 3 years. Let's face it, most people looking at a £60k car will already have something fairly decent on the driveway.
I'm sure there will be thousands of these parked up in the Lake District come next summer, all PCP'd up to the hilt.
*Ignoring the 7.2% interest rate and the £41k balloon payment, of course...
Without trawling through 70 odd pages what home chargers are people using? Collecting a Ionic 5 in about an hours time!!
Andersen A2
Pricey, but looks nice and has an 8m cable that is hidden when not in use.
Had it since Jan , no problems with it at all
Myenergi Zappi. Useful if you have an EV parked in the drive during peak solar and want to divert excess solar to the car.
Without trawling through 70 odd pages what home chargers are people using?
Ohme here. It was recommended by the local installer and it's great. It can use the APIs for various cars (including Hyundai) to work intelligently with it, and it also has its own 4G internet connection rather than needing WiFi which may be useful depending where it's going to go.
We have an Anderson A2 and an easy wallbox, we had the Anderson first when I got my car 2 years ago because of the look as it is on the front of the house.
EmonEVSE here - open source firmware, with all the pros & cons.
Pros are that it works with solar (like the Zappi), and being open source means you can tweak it as much as you like (so long as you are familiar with C programming and ESP32 microcontrollers).
Cons are that, being open source, it's not as intuitive to use as some other options.
I'd probably go with a Zappi next time around.
Solar + EV + smart charger + working-from-home is an awesome combo, BTW - free fuel & hot water all summer long, cheap fuel the rest of the year.
I have a Podpoint. It’s been reliable, but is tucked up the side of my house as it ain’t pretty. I got it for a reduced price (plus the government grant) as my company has a trade deal with them.
I’ve got an EO Mini Pro 2, chosen because it’s really small and only cost £100. I’ve turned off the smart features as I use the car to schedule charge so it’s effectively just a socket.
(I may have misunderstood this but…)
Isn’t that only a factor if you need a fully charged vehicle day in day out ? Very few ever will. Most people would manage for 99% of the time on 4hrs x 3kwh (and that’s discounting a 7kwh charger obviously)…which would give 40-50 miles per day. (Or over 100 miles on 4hr x 7kwh)
Occasionally we go out of the 4hr window, more often in winter or if we’ve been running about more than usual, but the majority of the time our use keeps us inside it. That’s a commute round trip of between 60 - 70 miles depending on what way we go.
And we can choose if we let it charge to 100% and overrun the off peak rate or stop short if the range isn’t needed. It works well and is easy to manage.
That and the zero local emissions
Only zero local emissions if you ignore tyre & brake pollution, granted electric vehicles produce less brake pollution than equivalent ICE but at present EVs seem to produce more tyre pollution than their lighter ICE equivalents. In any event don't kid yourself that it's zero local emissions.
brake pollution
Brake pollution should be (almost) zero in a modern BEV unless you drive like an utter tosser. In most normal driving something like 95% of vehicle braking should be handled by the motors.
Even had some cases on some cars where the brakes don't actually work properly when you do need them as it's been so long since they were last used. Get a few seconds of grinding and scraping noises before the torque arrives!
Hence many brands bringing in cleaning functions.
tata have just announced a £10,000 ev with 155 mile range *
*from a 19kwh battery, which seems unlikely, but I guess driving speeds over there are really low so maybe the test caters to that?
Brake pollution should be (almost) zero in a modern BEV unless you drive like an utter tosser. In most normal driving something like 95% of vehicle braking should be handled by the motors.
Yup far less than an ICE. Coming up 30k miles on mine, pads and discs are the originals and barely any wear on them.
Still zero emissions even with brake and rubber dust.
My daughter wants to go to Germany for a holiday. So I was looking at the feasibility of taking the EV rather than the diesel. My other daughter wants to go to the Haribo shop in Bonn (I haven't told her they now have these in the UK), so I picked that as a destination. According to ABRP* it's 8 and a bit hours of driving and 2.5hrs of stopping with 4 stops. Funnily enough, if I set the speed to 130km/h rather than 112 it doesn't change much. Still 4 stops, more charging time but less driving time. Looks like the cost of leccy would be roughly £45 on the way out, and probably £60 ish on the way back, versus say £160 of diesel.
There'd be one charge on the way out around Slough, which could be dicey as if there are problems you risk missing your ferry/train. But then, Slough is stuffed with chargers so it's a pretty good place to stop.
Anyone driven around France/Belgium/Germany in an EV? Is it easier than the UK?
Just ordered my new company car, an Octavia Estate iV plug-in hybrid. Having done the numbers, staying on the current tariff it will cost me pretty much the same to charge the battery at home as it would do per mile, to use petrol. However, with a £100 saving per month on the tax it was a no brainer really. This is will be my first test of an EV.
Having done the numbers, staying on the current tariff it will cost me pretty much the same to charge the battery at home as it would do per mile, to use petrol.
I was going to suggest changing tariff, but if it's only a small battery it might not be worth it.
Exactly, only a 13kw. Plus with both of us working at home even with a proper EV it would be tight on usage during the day. Who knows, we might see a reduction in pricing by the time it arrives. Lease company says 6 months, I think they are being very optimistic.
Skelton Lake services yesterday and all eight Ionity 350kw chargers have had their cables stolen. Going to be out of action for another week.
Not a good trend and needs Police and courts to get on top of it v quickly when it's such a vital strategic bit of infrastructure. Can you imagine the uproar if all petrol stations in a certain area were suddenly inoperative due to theft.....
Skelton Lake services yesterday and all eight Ionity 350kw chargers have had their cables stolen. Going to be out of action for another week.
That's piss poor but sadly indicative of the world we live in.
Still zero emissions even with brake and rubber dust.
Lolwut? I assume you actually mean tailpipe emissions rather than contradicting yourself. And worth remembering bicycles produce the same brake and rubber dust.
How the F did they manage to steal the cables from Skelton Lake services?
the are pretty central to the car park so hardly tucked away around the back.
Also services are pretty heavily monitored so they can screw you for parking.
he are pretty central to the car park so hardly tucked away around the back.
They actually are tucked away, right down at a quiet end of the car park away from the services entrance and looking at google there's a short link across to a nearby lane. So easy enough to cut then carry them to your white flat-bed truck (with yellow highway lights?), without driving onto the actual services and being on cctv it seems.........
What a daft spot to install £0000's of pounds worth of kit.
ah yes, didnt spot that lane, last time I passed them it was rammed and looked pretty central but yeah that lane probable gives them a simple get away. Its a shame, ionity is pretty good (especially with Bonnet....referral codes available on request ;-))
Might have a slight change in work roles coming up soon, so thought about going EV, rather than a thirsty diesel 4x4.
Would like an AWD, 577bhp, 162mph, <3.5s 0-60, Kia EV6 GT - medium/high spendy, which could have been justified, but electricity prices now make it pointless
With the size of those elastic bands the rims would be square within a week up here.
Also, utterly pointless. But probably still cost neutral on the fuel so I'd think about it.
Would like an AWD, 577bhp, 162mph, <3.5s 0-60, Kia EV6 GT – medium/high spendy, which could have been justified, but electricity prices now make it pointless
How so? Charging away from home is expensive, but at home it's still only 1.5p/mile for me.
How so? Charging away from home is expensive, but at home it’s still only 1.5p/mile for me.
I've not finished my full research, but I've read far, far higher costs than that
75% of it could possibly be free at work though
Your tariff seems very cheap either way though
I’ve not finished my full research, but I’ve read far, far higher costs than that
It's just Intelligent Octopus, which everyone over a certain mileage should be on.
40p a unit, and 7.5p between 11.30 and 5.30. If you use a lot of daytime power and your mileage isn't low enough, then it's not worth it, but we're saving £100/mo versus diesel on my wife's 13 mile commute.
Octopus have paused registration for intelligent and similar tariffs for the time being. But definitely an option when back up...
https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/
In fact as EV become more popular and energy prices get back to normality I imagine that there will be a push to get EV owners onto these tariffs
It's possibly been mentioned somewhere in the previous 71 pages but I haven't found anything useful with the search function: does anyone have any experience of, or links to, homebrew electric conversions? There's bound to be a bunch of hobbyists tinkering with this stuff and I know of a couple of companies who take the usable bits of scrapped Teslas, for example, and transplant them into classic cars.
I've got a vague idea for a DIY project on an old car and I'm just wondering whether it's going to be a) feasible, b) expensive, c) worth it and / or d) a colossal ballache and waste of time. There are quite a few online resources for the petrolv version, but I'm debating finding one without an engine and making it a bit different. And more future-friendly.
A guy at work has a BL Mini with a homebrew electric conversion.
His day job is as a technical expert on EV driveline integration and design, so it's quite a good homebrew...
I had a quick look for his blog, but google is full of DIY kits now.
A mate drove to the French alps in the summer. It took a lot longer than the rest of the gang in 'normal' cars. Mainly due to broken chargers and big queues in the summer.
I dont get the fascination for EV manufactures to make the cars faster and faster. We had a Polestar for a month before it went back, mostly due to the terrible service. It was mad fast, rubbish range and pretty dull interior.
We have now had our Marc EQA for three months and its brilliant. Its getting c100 miles a charge more then the Polestar, it interior is lovely which is very important as its my wife's car and she spends a lot of time in it sometimes.
66kw battery high of 290 miles on a 'tank' and 0-60 in sun 9 I think, either way its way fast enough. In fact if this car was 0-60 in 13 secs and did another 100 miles it would be even better. Even so its the best car we have owned.
We have an Economy7 and happy with the costs which are something like 1/5th~1/10th of the costs running our other vehicles which are now going as we never use them.
Has anyone thought about putting a deposit down on a Fisker Ocean? 380 miles range for £50k seems pretty much the best that would be available for quite some time.
Has anyone thought about putting a deposit down on a Fisker Ocean? 380 miles range for £50k seems pretty much the best that would be available for quite some time.
They look really nice. As they are currently prototypes only, is the 380 range actually measured in the same way as those currently for sale? I'd be wary of buying on stats if they are claiming some magic increase in efficiency versus their rivals. Of course if its just a big battery, could make sense.
I am a bit pissed off with their advertising though.
"380 range, 0-60 in xxx secs, california mode [where all the windows drop and the opening sun roof], prices from £35k"
And then all 3 of those stated features do not occur on the £35k model, only the £50k and up ones.
Yep that's a bit misleading. Still though a £35k SUV shaped EV with a claimed 270 mile range (based on simulations in line with WLTP standards) sounds better than an equivalent Kia Niro EV.
Also I cant really gauge the size of it. Is it a nice UK suitable vehicle or is it a full on Yank Tank?
Polestar 3 launched yesterday, lots of "built in the states, for americans" indicating its probably a behemoth unsuited for our cramped isle.
tempted to go EV with the next company car but i heard waiting times for orders are bonkers at the moment
Depends. Factory orders are long, but they some in stock at lease companies for immediate delivery.
Long waits aren’t restricted to EVs either.
tempted to go EV with the next company car but i heard waiting times for orders are bonkers at the moment
Ordered a polestar 2 back in May, delivery is scheduled for January.
I dont get the fascination for EV manufactures to make the cars faster and faster.
Because they can. It doesn't cost you efficiency like it does in a petrol car, and it's not particularly difficult to engineer. And it sells cars to at least some people.
a claimed 270 mile range (based on simulations in line with WLTP standards) sounds better than an equivalent Kia Niro EV.
I think Kia are going to be closer to the stated range generally speaking.
Yep. Our 64kWh Kia is averaging close to 5 miles per kWh - which is better than the 284 range advertised. I assume because of the type of journeys we make and it not being particularly cold yet
Also I cant really gauge the size of it. Is it a nice UK suitable vehicle or is it a full on Yank Tank?
Same headline measurements as a Model Y but it's a lot more boxy so will probably appear bigger.
In summer I do get 270 miles out of my Kia Soul. In winter with the heater on that drops down to between 230-240 miles.
Re wait times. I ordered a BMW i4 as a first company car 2 months ago and still no news on it - hoping for Q1 next year. But had an Audi Etron 55 delivered as a mid term rental after 3 weeks so it’s worked out brilliantly, although there is a lot of luck in that - I’ve heard of others being given large ICE cars as an interim car and being stung horribly on BIK.
Yep. Our 64kWh Kia is averaging close to 5 miles per kWh – which is better than the 284 range advertised. I assume because of the type of journeys we make and it not being particularly cold yet
Slower trips I assume? I haven't beaten 4.8 on a long motorway trip, but we have seen 6 on the country lane to school and nearly 7 on the 50/30mph run into town.
Again, regarding wait times - I ordered a Merc A250e hybrid saloon middle of last year, expected in in Q1 '22, then by June, then Mercedes cancelled the order.
I've ordered a new Megane ETech full EV, I'm hoping it'll be here towards the end of this year. No official build slot or chassis number but apparently that's the same for all of them at the moment until they agree UK allocation from the factory. Fingers crossed it comes as planned, I'm looking forward to my company car tax dropping by £200 a month 🙂
Slower trips I assume? I haven’t beaten 4.8 on a long motorway trip, but we have seen 6 on the country lane to school and nearly 7 on the 50/30mph run into town
Yeah - most of the mileage is 7 to 10 mile each way trips. 30/40 mph roads - not too much traffic. I have a pretty laid back driving style as well Very efficient in these conditions - less so short trips to shops. Be too interesting to see what it will do when I visit family at Christmas 75 mile motorway each way in the cold
The weight of your right foot also makes less difference. Mostly it's just the speed you top out at. Accelerating faster and staying under 40 is more economical than a steady 70.
Interesting - we are only 3 months in so haven't a full baseline yet. But I thought from previous reading that our car usage pattern would work well in terms EV efficiency. There is one trip I make to regularly to the climbing wall that averages well over 6 out and back.
TBH the driving experience is so smooth and chilled that alone adds real value to owning an EV
I agree. Also, for someone who can get obsessed with mechanical things, it is very relaxing not to be listening to noises, gear changes, turbos, valves and so on.
I’ve had my Ioniq5 a few months now, and love it (aside from the rattly rear seatbelts 😡). It’s a big lump though , and boxy, so only gets 3.5mi/kWh. If eNiros had been available through Tusker when I ordered I would probably have gone there.
only gets 3.5mi/kWh
What kind of driving?
Does it bing and bong at you all the time?
...
TBH the driving experience is so smooth and chilled that alone adds real value to owning an EV
Yep, back in the ice days you’d be wanting a nice big s-class for the silky smooth delivery and lack of noise that comes with most evs.
Wow. Just seen that octopus go is now up to 12p/kWh off peak and 41p ish peak. 4 months ago I was laying not far off the off peak price in the day! Still cheaper than it could be but starting to chip away at the running cost differential.
Molgrips - 50% motorway, 50% local.
I drive at 65 with cruise control on the motorway, and fairly conservatively.