[Closed] So here's the deal

esselgruntfuttock - Member

I think TJ should be a moderator.

There, I said it.

Well I am a very moderate man. I could moderate 'em

A firm slap of moderation - "you stop posting tripe"

We’d forever be moderating if that was the case.

I used to mod a motorbike forum. I was shit at it. But if you want someone to ban Chewkw, Jamba and Ninfan then sign me up. I'll do TJ while we're at it, for lolz. Then possibly myself

Did I do something to piss someone off by starting that religion thread? If so, I’m sorry.

My penance rests in the fact that I have no idea what ‘parklife’ means, and the purpose of the thread was lost pages ago. 😐

P.S. Cougar, for what it’s worth, you’ve got my support.

I don’t find tj especially difficult. Is he doing stuff behind the scenes some of us can’t see?

Yup - the more I think about it the more I believe that early intervention saves threads. A few times since my return I have been getting a bit carried away and someone has pointed this out. Its enough to make me stop.

So rather than waiting until it hits the high threshold you use for bans just jump in and tell folk to stop behaving like brats or face a ban - publicly on the thread.

" oi TJ - you have made that point 17 times already, you are getting carried away again. chill man" would usually be enough for me. Would it for others? If followed by a ban with no warning if they don't stop it should be and perhaps they woulod soon learn. Personally I think the warning / reality check on the thread would be enough for me to calm down. But if I didn't a ban would be well deserved.

sometimes you simply don't realise how it looks to others

SaxonRider - Member

I don’t find tj especially difficult. Is he doing stuff behind the scenes some of us can’t see?

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

A small minority of people are making this Not Fun [s]at times[/s] quite a lot.

FTFY

Frankly I'm still sick of the passive aggressive BS on here, if this was a pub most of the "big hitters" would have been barred or glassed long ago. A lot of people need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask if they really would treat people the way they do on here.

This all the time.

Really, robdob? Quite a lot?!?

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way.

I have to say that, at worst, there are times when no particularly interesting threads come up - sometimes for a few days straight - and I therefore go quiet.

But the days when this place could become 'not fun' for any serious reason and for any serious length of time, always seemed to me to be well in the past.

SaxonRider - Member
Did I do something to piss someone off by starting that religion thread? If so, I’m sorry.

My penance rests in the fact that I have no idea what ‘parklife’ means, and the purpose of the thread was lost pages ago.

How has the purpose been lost?
If anything to do with me, I apologise, but threads by their very nature, drift and it's a mostly well mannered, thoroughly interesting discussion.

How about no moderation. Wild West, no rules, **** the police. It’s just the internet. Or at least ditch the report button.

Give the mods a handsome redundancy package of course.

If cougar loses the edge, who’s gonna slide into his spot at mirramar?

[quote=glasgowdan ]People take forum chatter seriously???

This ^

Really, robdob? Quite a lot?!?

Yes. The way some people act in here I really wouldn’t want to meet them in person, I actively avoid threads which have certain people in them. As a Christian I regularly feel sick to my stomach the way people talk about people with beliefs. I would have something to offer in such discussions but it’s like a 1960’s sitcom and I’m the token immigrant so I don’t go near them.

The one person who I have met off this forum who I really liked was Hora, and after my long break I found out he wasn’t around any more and was quite sad. Considering a permanent break now as I think the forum has become worse as far as the “feeling” is on here.

There’s a lot of hatred on here but a lot of people don’t see it, the people who feel it just leave.

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

If it helps with your introspection any, you seem to me to be a very binary, all or nothing sort of guy. I don't mean that as an insult, you said it yourself on a post last week. Unfortunately written communication doesn't lend itself well to that sort of outlook, it loses whatever subtlety and nuance might've been there in the first place. As such it's very easy to take your posts the wrong way. IMHO.

Eg, face to face one might call someone out with a smile on their face and it's interpreted as good-natured banter. In text it's read as "WTF is his problem?" instead. And that's not just an issue for you, it's an issue inherent with forums generally. I suffer greatly from this too, I forget people don't know me IRL and sometimes say things which get misunderstood and I later regret. I do try to correct myself when it happens, though by that point sometimes people don't want to listen.

There’s a lot of hatred on here but a lot of people don’t see it, the people who feel it just leave.

You know, I'm a cynical bastard at the best of times, but I don't believe that's true at all. I think there's a number of people who enjoy... lively debate, and there's a couple with a chip on their shoulder about various things. But there's a lot of love here too. Look at any of the threads where people have asked for help, whether it's a simple "what phone" thread or "my life has fallen apart." Some people can be spiky, but when the chips are down the community can be truly exceptional.

The most heavily "regulated" forum I have ever been on was OcUK.

It may have changed over the years as the owner of the company it is linked to stepped back from/sold the company.

It was pretty much zero tolerance.

As such even a certain level of sarcasm could lead to a ban. Which would mean this forum would be empty over night. 😉

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce The Law with seemingly unlimited time on their hands.

Posts concerning people asking for advice on depression etc were actually removed on OcUK believe it or not! For "liability" reasons. Actually any "medical thread" was banned for same reason. I kid you not. I found it pretty inhumane.

Anyway,i only dabble in the EU thread but I can see that emotions run high in it. Perhaps they should, within limits as it's going to dominate the news for a while to come.

My only negative experience on here was the LingWars(™) thread really. Where it got so personal I really didn't feel comfortable with it.

Ive been far more "combative" ever since that thread of I'm truthful. Trouble is I was used to the main Biking forum which is a lot tamer on the whole.

The Ling thread was an eye opener.

Still,i love the forums on here and almost all the posters seem decent people, ditto the mods.

I still don't get all the in jokes on occasion though, hence having to ask what the heck "don't like the sponge" meant. 😀

Some people can be spiky

Don’t forget those of us in the cheap seats, throwing peanuts at both sides...

@newrobdob: PM just sent re: your comments above.

Don’t forget those of us in the cheap seats, throwing peanuts at both sides...

Forget? We're judging you from ringside!

Posts concerning people asking for advice on depression etc were actually removed on OcUK believe it or not! For "liability" reasons. Actually any "medical thread" was banned for same reason. I kid you not. I found it pretty inhuma

I can understand that, tho. When you have a forum attached to a successful company you can’t afford to have those sorts of liabilities. Plus it’s easier to have a blanket policy which may not always be the most nuanced.

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

#isitok - to find much of this thread very funny

Only if it’s ok for me to find hashtags in forum threads ridiculous 8)

SaxonRider -

I'm sad it is the first time I have ever used one. #fail.

Cougar - Moderator
It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

Absolutely. Even if stw had the luxury,it can lad to a very sterile environment. Safe but sterile.

Cougar - Moderator

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

Me me me me pick me - I am so moderate I could be the bestest moderator ever!

Over here in East Lancashire I think I just felt the tremors from an explosion in Hebden Bridge.

But the big disputing threads make money for Mark. He needs the hits to keep the money coming in!

Oh, forgot to say!

This thread could be HUGE!

200 pages +??

(Bans will star kicking in at about page 8 I reckon?)

😀 😉

EDIT: Really wish people used emoticons more though. It can add a bit of real intent into a sentence/conversion even though many consider then childish. As Cougar said, forums are a pig to get your real, benign, meaning across sometimes.

Over here in East Lancashire I think I just felt the tremors from an explosion in Hebden Bridge.

On a plus side the spam posters/link droppers seems to have reduced significantly so something must have got better or I'm just not in the right time zone to catch them.

This thread could be HUGE!

Nah, I'm gonna close it soon I think.

On a plus side the spam posters/link droppers seems to have reduced significantly

No, we're just good at killing them because we're AWESUM!!1!

I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep 😉 used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up

A luxury we do not have.

Scotroutes not pulling his weight again?

Apart from a few threads (Skiing, TrainerRoad, PowerMeter) I tend to ignore threads with 3+ pages. I find a couple of pages is enough to understand an issue; the subject matter experts will have contributed and opinions expressed. More than that generally indicates that the thread is probably going round in circles with people in entrenched positions.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up

Yeah, that's the only blind spot really. Not a lot we can do about that short of recruiting an Eastern European moderator.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

Shithead. (-:

Good luck with that anyway, I'm nocturnal.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

If so, I will plead innocent now, as I'm about to shut down for the night.

See you in the morning.

Cougar - Moderator
Good luck with that anyway, I'm nocturnal.

Nah, not totally!

Remember the rash of "do you think" threads that appeared early morning recently?

Think it was early morning anyway! 😀

See,i KNEW you had to sleep sometime Cougar!

Fortunately, no fires started. 😀

tjagain - Member

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

Your theory would be different to mine then, as I can't see why you would get banned for stating it! That would rather suggest you believe everyone else is in the wrong? Since you raised the subject I hope you will accept the following as constructive feedback rather than anything nasty.

Lets assume that the problem is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw. IMO The reason some people are 'annoyed' by you is your stubborn lack of self awareness (as stated above this is exaggerated by the way you write things, where we don't experience the nuances of face to face conversation). The way this comes across to (some) others is that believe things are facts, and can't accept anyone arguing against you, even when you are clearly wrong. You are not the only one by a looooong way (myself included), but certainly one of the worst. You have said previously you would like to mend your ways, and become a better person, so I hope this offers some insight, even if it is from just one person. I've got a feeling as many people will agree as will disagree. If you are as thick skinned as you say, you will have no problem ignoring it (its just one persons opinion after all).

Errmmm - voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban 🙂

Yes its a mix of my combative nature, firmly held but sometimes unpopular opinions, lack of nuance in text based debate and my pigheadedness.

Its also that when in those debates I struggle to see the wood from the trees. I think my post is very clear andthenothers take meanings from it I simply did not mean

is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw

I would say personal characteristic rather than flaw but I can accept its an issue created by me.

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

I have written out posts, revised them, left it to sit for a while while I ponder, post it and then find others see something very differnt to what I intend when they read it.

Errmmm - voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban

Is that because you were aiming the theory at someone else rather than yourself :lol:? If so, it's not the same theory!

Cougar - Moderator
I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up
Yeah, that's the only blind spot really. Not a lot we can do about that short of recruiting an Eastern European Moderator

Or, mebbies one in the 'other' +12 hr timezone? Who could fill that role? 🙂

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

Again, purely in the interest of self-help, can I suggest the following: Have a look back at what you posted in the recent IQ thread (from a few weeks ago?). What do you think that says about your self-awareness to others?

I am actually very self aware

Are you also very humble, probably the most humble person you know? Oh & 😉

TJ bating certainly seems to be a thing which is wrong but you do come over as rather bombastic at times which is bound to get people's backs up.

People who spend their lives bickering about brexit etc on a mtn bike forum have got to be among the most tedious broken people in society so I don't really see the problem with them coming on here to live out their inner alpha males needs,they probably get beaten by their wives or bullied in work,jeez give them a break to let off steam.

Tj has made some rather good posts in some other threads I have read, just for some balance here.

TJ can be a pain but it is malice free. Some on here are here ONLY to wind people up and that is what there every post is about

The mods know who they are just like the forum does
Would make more sense if folk just did not respond to them tbh.

I think if any individual feels the need to be more right to defeat a group of strangers and win the internet, there is a good chance their personality is lacking in some areas. Whilst the internet is there for all to use, some people should really consider how they are using it, and what this is adding to their life and that of others.

On other forums the thread starter/op shoulders more responsibility for the quality of the thread, establishes clear rules and takes a degree of ownership for the thread. Now obviously STW has something of an in-joke culture concerning joke threads or crap threads but regarding political or religious threads it works well.

The upshot of this is there are more big threads and fewer "I had a brain fart about Trump" style threads. Less threads means less threads to moderate, and if the thread starter/OP takes ownership and reminds posters who are going off topic about the thread rules then posters can will generally listen or it becomes a mod issue. Example of rules would be keep on topic obviously, don't post memes, rambling videos, massive quotes, post your own thoughts not walls of quoted text etc - these tend to make for better debate and less rabbit holes.

It also helps with searching and information gathering and research - ie if there was one thread about camper vans and van conversions it's much better keeping all that crap together for people who want to see old builds and info posted, and it also avoids creating another thread about "what van" to be moderated.

Another thing is the style of modding. Moderators of other forums will steer the thread (as per thread rules) referencing the thread rules (not the forum rules) and will point out when individuals are going down a bickering tangent. Here things are let run until arguments become heated or personal and then bans are required.

Unless there's some kind of subtle shift in the forum structure, forum culture or just more mods and less cliques these things will just keep on happening.

Sounds awful. I prefer "consistent" modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Fewer threads about the same topic would be good though. Mind you, that way lies all the sub-forum nonsense.

I guess that if folk really wanted that then they'd gravitate to those sites.

As this seems to be a thread about TJ:

[quote=tjagain ]Yes its a mix of my combative nature, firmly held but sometimes unpopular opinions, lack of nuance in text based debate and my pigheadedness.

That's a good summary I'd say - and given issues with text based comms I should point out I don't mean that in a negative way at all.

[quote=Junkyard ]TJ can be a pain but it is malice free. Some on here are here ONLY to wind people up and that is what there every post is about

This. I have to admit to having crossed swords with TJ in the past, though that happens very little nowadays (since we met in RL? though I think we came to an understanding well before that). Yes I did find his posting style irritating when that happened - the big problem though is that almost always he has a valid point, even when it's one I disagree with. The trouble is that his obstinate nature means he won't back down, and dare I suggest that those without the skills to successfully debate against him (even when their opinion was as valid if not more valid) have tended to fall back on writing things which explicitly break forum rules. Which ended up in lots of reported posts, everybody getting upset and ultimately in a long holiday for the person who didn't actually break the forum rules (apart from the one about arguing).

Is that a fair summary?

Though to widen the point, ISTM that a lot of the issue with some of these threads is the "subtle insult" from those who know their way around the forum rules. That and passive aggression from the same people. Posts made largely for the purpose of getting a response which does explicitly break the rules - the poster being insulting with carefully chosen words then gleefully reports.

[quote=tjagain ]some folk seem to use "report post" as a weapon I only do it when on the receiving end of nasty personal attacks

Indeed - that's the impression I have, and that one of the posters in question is a serial reporter of people who don't choose their words carefully enough when they call him out (amusingly, my most recent reported post was when I didn't choose my words carefully enough when pointing out this behaviour). I'm thinking that whilst you don't want to discourage people from reporting, the use of reporting as a weapon in disputes (which don't involve explicitly insulting comments) is one of the biggest issues here. Personally I very, very rarely use that report button - probably mostly to report spam, occasionally to report breaking of forum rules, but I can only think of one recently when I reported a post having a go at me when it was the latest in a sequence - usually I just ignore such things.

[quote=scotroutes ]Sounds awful. I prefer "consistent" modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Well pull your finger out then.

Have a hard limit of 500 posts per thread. Easy.

[quote=jimjam ]if the thread starter/OP takes ownership and reminds posters who are going off topic about the thread rules

gah - just realised that I was the OP for the Farron thread which seems to be the current arguathon. Sorry folks!

[quote=futon river crossing ]Have a hard limit of 500 posts per thread. Easy.

and deny us moments of glory like this http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1000 ? 😉

What about all those people who don't read threads with click-baity titles like "here's the deal"? Not me obvs.

futon river crossing - Member
Have a hard limit of 500 posts per thread. Easy.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-dear-old-things-its-stw-tms

Some things last longer than 500 posts

and http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/f1-2017-bound-to-contain-spoilers

scotroutes - Member

Sounds awful. I prefer "consistent" modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Could you elaborate as to what sounds awful about people posting their own opinions and not posting memes, walls of quoted text or rambling videos or external links, particularly on political or religious threads?

Fewer threads about the same topic would be good though. Mind you, that way lies all the sub-forum nonsense.

No you just use the thread as a sub forum, in the same way the brexit thread is essentially a brexit sub forum.

I guess that if folk really wanted that then they'd gravitate to those sites.

Not so long ago I remember it was the done thing on stw to have a thread to post pictures of attractive ladies each Friday. If there's an effort to change, change can be made. I'm not the one complaining about the work loads of the moderators, just trying to be constructive and point out possible changes which could alleviate the need for moderation.

Some things last longer than 500 posts

Test cricket lasts longer than most things to be fair

Expanding on my previous suggestion, keep tables of who is reported the most, and who does the most reporting.
Every week ban the top spots for three months.
You'll get rid of the biggest arsehole and the biggest fairy. 🙂
The more I think about it, the better this seems to be.
Do it! 😀

Wouldn't that be an almost permanent ban for you?

STW will eat itself.

STW will eat itself.

....washed down with some sort of artisan craft beer from a hipster microbrewery.

No pudding.

scotroutes - Member

Wouldn't that be an almost permanent ban for you?

I honestly don't know.
I would be amused to learn that I was reported that regularly, I doubt STWers are that delicate.
The beauty of the system is that the reporter as well as the reportee get banned so spats should be reduced exponentially.
It's genius I tells thee. 😀

ETA: How else will these people know that they are the biggest dick/pussy of the forum?
Are there any downsides to this at all? I think not.

Jimjam that sounds a terrible idea. A forum is a conversation so it can and should be allowed to drift away. It’s not a official meeting where we need a chair to step in if someone moves away from the subject.

[quote=Drac ]Jimjam that sounds a terrible idea. A forum is a conversation so it can and should be allowed to drift away. It’s not a official meeting where we need a chair to step in if someone moves away from the subject.

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though. Indeed I (in a former guise) once received a ban for this. It seems to be ignored now.

Jimjam that sounds a terrible idea. A forum is a conversation so it can and should be allowed to drift away. It’s not a official meeting where we need a chair to step in if someone moves away from the subject.

Agreed. I belong to another forum which considers itself "really friendly and accommodating". I find it sterile and over-moderated, although there's some interesting content which keeps me there. One of the tactics is to lock any thread which goes off topic, immediately. It's absolutely infuriating as it often curtails some interesting (if only vaguely relevant) discussion.

It seems to be ignored now.

Guess it’s not a priority then

Even tho I would probably suffer from it as apparently I was the most reported poster pre my long ban ( hopefully not now) I think firmer interventione earlier would help stop threads descending into a bitchfest.

IE warn them once that they are approaching the edge and publicly so everyone can see then next step out of line on that thread ban.

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though. Indeed I (in a former guise) once received a ban for this. It seems to be ignored now.

Depends how out of hand it gets, if it's clear it's done to troll they may get a warning. That still happens.

IE warn them once that they are approaching the edge and publicly so everyone can see then next step out of line on that thread ban.

At times we do that.

The issue Cougar was refering to more was to do with the EU thread where we were getting regular reports along the lines of.

“What he’s saying isn’t true, can you stop him from posting these?”

When we’ve tried to look at some cases it was just a mess so our patience was running out. I’ve been pretty inactice over the last few months for personal reasons as a mod, Cougar and other have held the fort. The said thread causing these daily issues is tiring, there was even reports on Xmas Eve.

all the more reason to make me a mod! I am so moderate I would be the bestest ever bigly time!

In all seriousness the mods make the forum and its a difficult balancing act generally done well.

Like a watchi a rugby game I complain about the decisions at the time often but once I step back a bit they are usually right.

apple for the mod sir? Can I ingratiate myself any further? ( apart from stopping being a stroppy cow ) 😉

The issue Cougar was refering to more was to do with the EU thread where we were getting regular reports along the lines of.

“What he’s saying isn’t true, can you stop him from posting these?”

Ironic that this thread is now at 5 pages and still going.....

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though.

[img] [/img]

Well somebody had to do it.

How else will these people know that they are the biggest dick/pussy of the forum?
Are there any downsides to this at all?

Yes... [url=

.

[img] [/img]

On the EU thread the constant posting of clear untruths by some that they continue with no matter how much its refuted by links and facts leads to folk getting very exasperated and then either reposting the untrue posts ( not me) or having exhausted all the options in terms of refuting them intellectually they resort to ridicule which then generates more reports for the ridiculing posts ( at a guess)

Hence my solution being to intervene earlier. " Fred stop posing nonsense and Bill stop calling him a liar please or you will both be banned"