[Closed] So here's the deal

How about no moderation. Wild West, no rules, **** the police. It’s just the internet. Or at least ditch the report button.

Give the mods a handsome redundancy package of course.

If cougar loses the edge, who’s gonna slide into his spot at mirramar?

[quote=glasgowdan ]People take forum chatter seriously???

This ^

Really, robdob? Quite a lot?!?

Yes. The way some people act in here I really wouldn’t want to meet them in person, I actively avoid threads which have certain people in them. As a Christian I regularly feel sick to my stomach the way people talk about people with beliefs. I would have something to offer in such discussions but it’s like a 1960’s sitcom and I’m the token immigrant so I don’t go near them.

The one person who I have met off this forum who I really liked was Hora, and after my long break I found out he wasn’t around any more and was quite sad. Considering a permanent break now as I think the forum has become worse as far as the “feeling” is on here.

There’s a lot of hatred on here but a lot of people don’t see it, the people who feel it just leave.

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

If it helps with your introspection any, you seem to me to be a very binary, all or nothing sort of guy. I don't mean that as an insult, you said it yourself on a post last week. Unfortunately written communication doesn't lend itself well to that sort of outlook, it loses whatever subtlety and nuance might've been there in the first place. As such it's very easy to take your posts the wrong way. IMHO.

Eg, face to face one might call someone out with a smile on their face and it's interpreted as good-natured banter. In text it's read as "WTF is his problem?" instead. And that's not just an issue for you, it's an issue inherent with forums generally. I suffer greatly from this too, I forget people don't know me IRL and sometimes say things which get misunderstood and I later regret. I do try to correct myself when it happens, though by that point sometimes people don't want to listen.

There’s a lot of hatred on here but a lot of people don’t see it, the people who feel it just leave.

You know, I'm a cynical bastard at the best of times, but I don't believe that's true at all. I think there's a number of people who enjoy... lively debate, and there's a couple with a chip on their shoulder about various things. But there's a lot of love here too. Look at any of the threads where people have asked for help, whether it's a simple "what phone" thread or "my life has fallen apart." Some people can be spiky, but when the chips are down the community can be truly exceptional.

The most heavily "regulated" forum I have ever been on was OcUK.

It may have changed over the years as the owner of the company it is linked to stepped back from/sold the company.

It was pretty much zero tolerance.

As such even a certain level of sarcasm could lead to a ban. Which would mean this forum would be empty over night. 😉

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce The Law with seemingly unlimited time on their hands.

Posts concerning people asking for advice on depression etc were actually removed on OcUK believe it or not! For "liability" reasons. Actually any "medical thread" was banned for same reason. I kid you not. I found it pretty inhumane.

Anyway,i only dabble in the EU thread but I can see that emotions run high in it. Perhaps they should, within limits as it's going to dominate the news for a while to come.

My only negative experience on here was the LingWars(™) thread really. Where it got so personal I really didn't feel comfortable with it.

Ive been far more "combative" ever since that thread of I'm truthful. Trouble is I was used to the main Biking forum which is a lot tamer on the whole.

The Ling thread was an eye opener.

Still,i love the forums on here and almost all the posters seem decent people, ditto the mods.

I still don't get all the in jokes on occasion though, hence having to ask what the heck "don't like the sponge" meant. 😀

Some people can be spiky

Don’t forget those of us in the cheap seats, throwing peanuts at both sides...

@newrobdob: PM just sent re: your comments above.

Don’t forget those of us in the cheap seats, throwing peanuts at both sides...

Forget? We're judging you from ringside!

Posts concerning people asking for advice on depression etc were actually removed on OcUK believe it or not! For "liability" reasons. Actually any "medical thread" was banned for same reason. I kid you not. I found it pretty inhuma

I can understand that, tho. When you have a forum attached to a successful company you can’t afford to have those sorts of liabilities. Plus it’s easier to have a blanket policy which may not always be the most nuanced.

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

#isitok - to find much of this thread very funny

Only if it’s ok for me to find hashtags in forum threads ridiculous 8)

SaxonRider -

I'm sad it is the first time I have ever used one. #fail.

Cougar - Moderator
It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

Absolutely. Even if stw had the luxury,it can lad to a very sterile environment. Safe but sterile.

Cougar - Moderator

It sort of worked but had a mass of moderators to enforce

A luxury we do not have.

Me me me me pick me - I am so moderate I could be the bestest moderator ever!

Over here in East Lancashire I think I just felt the tremors from an explosion in Hebden Bridge.

But the big disputing threads make money for Mark. He needs the hits to keep the money coming in!

Oh, forgot to say!

This thread could be HUGE!

200 pages +??

(Bans will star kicking in at about page 8 I reckon?)

😀 😉

EDIT: Really wish people used emoticons more though. It can add a bit of real intent into a sentence/conversion even though many consider then childish. As Cougar said, forums are a pig to get your real, benign, meaning across sometimes.

Over here in East Lancashire I think I just felt the tremors from an explosion in Hebden Bridge.

On a plus side the spam posters/link droppers seems to have reduced significantly so something must have got better or I'm just not in the right time zone to catch them.

This thread could be HUGE!

Nah, I'm gonna close it soon I think.

On a plus side the spam posters/link droppers seems to have reduced significantly

No, we're just good at killing them because we're AWESUM!!1!

I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep 😉 used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up

A luxury we do not have.

Scotroutes not pulling his weight again?

Apart from a few threads (Skiing, TrainerRoad, PowerMeter) I tend to ignore threads with 3+ pages. I find a couple of pages is enough to understand an issue; the subject matter experts will have contributed and opinions expressed. More than that generally indicates that the thread is probably going round in circles with people in entrenched positions.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up

Yeah, that's the only blind spot really. Not a lot we can do about that short of recruiting an Eastern European moderator.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

Shithead. (-:

Good luck with that anyway, I'm nocturnal.

I reckon everyone is waiting on cougar to go to kip before burning this thread down. Lol

If so, I will plead innocent now, as I'm about to shut down for the night.

See you in the morning.

Cougar - Moderator
Good luck with that anyway, I'm nocturnal.

Nah, not totally!

Remember the rash of "do you think" threads that appeared early morning recently?

Think it was early morning anyway! 😀

See,i KNEW you had to sleep sometime Cougar!

Fortunately, no fires started. 😀

tjagain - Member

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

Your theory would be different to mine then, as I can't see why you would get banned for stating it! That would rather suggest you believe everyone else is in the wrong? Since you raised the subject I hope you will accept the following as constructive feedback rather than anything nasty.

Lets assume that the problem is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw. IMO The reason some people are 'annoyed' by you is your stubborn lack of self awareness (as stated above this is exaggerated by the way you write things, where we don't experience the nuances of face to face conversation). The way this comes across to (some) others is that believe things are facts, and can't accept anyone arguing against you, even when you are clearly wrong. You are not the only one by a looooong way (myself included), but certainly one of the worst. You have said previously you would like to mend your ways, and become a better person, so I hope this offers some insight, even if it is from just one person. I've got a feeling as many people will agree as will disagree. If you are as thick skinned as you say, you will have no problem ignoring it (its just one persons opinion after all).

Errmmm - voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban 🙂

Yes its a mix of my combative nature, firmly held but sometimes unpopular opinions, lack of nuance in text based debate and my pigheadedness.

Its also that when in those debates I struggle to see the wood from the trees. I think my post is very clear andthenothers take meanings from it I simply did not mean

is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw

I would say personal characteristic rather than flaw but I can accept its an issue created by me.

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

I have written out posts, revised them, left it to sit for a while while I ponder, post it and then find others see something very differnt to what I intend when they read it.

Errmmm - voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban

Is that because you were aiming the theory at someone else rather than yourself :lol:? If so, it's not the same theory!

Cougar - Moderator
I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren't doing it in your sleep used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up
Yeah, that's the only blind spot really. Not a lot we can do about that short of recruiting an Eastern European Moderator

Or, mebbies one in the 'other' +12 hr timezone? Who could fill that role? 🙂

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

Again, purely in the interest of self-help, can I suggest the following: Have a look back at what you posted in the recent IQ thread (from a few weeks ago?). What do you think that says about your self-awareness to others?

I am actually very self aware

Are you also very humble, probably the most humble person you know? Oh & 😉

TJ bating certainly seems to be a thing which is wrong but you do come over as rather bombastic at times which is bound to get people's backs up.

People who spend their lives bickering about brexit etc on a mtn bike forum have got to be among the most tedious broken people in society so I don't really see the problem with them coming on here to live out their inner alpha males needs,they probably get beaten by their wives or bullied in work,jeez give them a break to let off steam.

Tj has made some rather good posts in some other threads I have read, just for some balance here.

TJ can be a pain but it is malice free. Some on here are here ONLY to wind people up and that is what there every post is about

The mods know who they are just like the forum does
Would make more sense if folk just did not respond to them tbh.

I think if any individual feels the need to be more right to defeat a group of strangers and win the internet, there is a good chance their personality is lacking in some areas. Whilst the internet is there for all to use, some people should really consider how they are using it, and what this is adding to their life and that of others.

On other forums the thread starter/op shoulders more responsibility for the quality of the thread, establishes clear rules and takes a degree of ownership for the thread. Now obviously STW has something of an in-joke culture concerning joke threads or crap threads but regarding political or religious threads it works well.

The upshot of this is there are more big threads and fewer "I had a brain fart about Trump" style threads. Less threads means less threads to moderate, and if the thread starter/OP takes ownership and reminds posters who are going off topic about the thread rules then posters can will generally listen or it becomes a mod issue. Example of rules would be keep on topic obviously, don't post memes, rambling videos, massive quotes, post your own thoughts not walls of quoted text etc - these tend to make for better debate and less rabbit holes.

It also helps with searching and information gathering and research - ie if there was one thread about camper vans and van conversions it's much better keeping all that crap together for people who want to see old builds and info posted, and it also avoids creating another thread about "what van" to be moderated.

Another thing is the style of modding. Moderators of other forums will steer the thread (as per thread rules) referencing the thread rules (not the forum rules) and will point out when individuals are going down a bickering tangent. Here things are let run until arguments become heated or personal and then bans are required.

Unless there's some kind of subtle shift in the forum structure, forum culture or just more mods and less cliques these things will just keep on happening.

Sounds awful. I prefer "consistent" modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Fewer threads about the same topic would be good though. Mind you, that way lies all the sub-forum nonsense.

I guess that if folk really wanted that then they'd gravitate to those sites.

As this seems to be a thread about TJ:

[quote=tjagain ]Yes its a mix of my combative nature, firmly held but sometimes unpopular opinions, lack of nuance in text based debate and my pigheadedness.

That's a good summary I'd say - and given issues with text based comms I should point out I don't mean that in a negative way at all.

[quote=Junkyard ]TJ can be a pain but it is malice free. Some on here are here ONLY to wind people up and that is what there every post is about

This. I have to admit to having crossed swords with TJ in the past, though that happens very little nowadays (since we met in RL? though I think we came to an understanding well before that). Yes I did find his posting style irritating when that happened - the big problem though is that almost always he has a valid point, even when it's one I disagree with. The trouble is that his obstinate nature means he won't back down, and dare I suggest that those without the skills to successfully debate against him (even when their opinion was as valid if not more valid) have tended to fall back on writing things which explicitly break forum rules. Which ended up in lots of reported posts, everybody getting upset and ultimately in a long holiday for the person who didn't actually break the forum rules (apart from the one about arguing).

Is that a fair summary?

Though to widen the point, ISTM that a lot of the issue with some of these threads is the "subtle insult" from those who know their way around the forum rules. That and passive aggression from the same people. Posts made largely for the purpose of getting a response which does explicitly break the rules - the poster being insulting with carefully chosen words then gleefully reports.

[quote=tjagain ]some folk seem to use "report post" as a weapon I only do it when on the receiving end of nasty personal attacks

Indeed - that's the impression I have, and that one of the posters in question is a serial reporter of people who don't choose their words carefully enough when they call him out (amusingly, my most recent reported post was when I didn't choose my words carefully enough when pointing out this behaviour). I'm thinking that whilst you don't want to discourage people from reporting, the use of reporting as a weapon in disputes (which don't involve explicitly insulting comments) is one of the biggest issues here. Personally I very, very rarely use that report button - probably mostly to report spam, occasionally to report breaking of forum rules, but I can only think of one recently when I reported a post having a go at me when it was the latest in a sequence - usually I just ignore such things.

[quote=scotroutes ]Sounds awful. I prefer "consistent" modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Well pull your finger out then.