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It worries me that people are sufficiently taken in by the rubbish they spout that, even if they don’t agree with their policies, they are willing to give them a go.
I can understand frustration with the main parties, but that "let them have a go" attitude just terrifies me
I can understand frustration with the main parties, but that "let them have a go" attitude just terrifies me
People think they've got nothing to lose. Which they will realise isn't the case when they lose what they have but by then it will be too late. I've no idea how to debate with these people. Same as Brexit, logic isn't going to convince and in general any sort of debate just entrenches positions.
As for breaking the uniparty system, would they would introduce PR if they managed to get elected by FPTP?
Because Farage was clear last year that PR was the better system.
OK they have gone suspiciously quiet about it this year now FPTP suits them better but I am sure thats just because they have been busy going into expansive detail on all their other policies like, ermmm , you know those other policies.
I can understand frustration with the main parties, but that "let them have a go" attitude just terrifies me
Me too.
If anyone thinks Farage is a force for good, an unlocker of positive change or a man of the people... the polite adjective is gullible.
If anyone looks at Reform's policies and brand of politics and thinks "they represent me" then they're nasty bigots.
There's a third option, but it simply combines gullible with bigoted.
I can understand frustration with the main parties, but that "let them have a go" attitude just terrifies me
To be fair that attitude is mostly the reason why Labour won a landslide victory last July.
Voters didn't really fully understand what a Labour government would do it was very much a question of "the Tories have screwed up let's vote Labour and see if they do any better".
The fact that support for Labour collapsed more or less overnight after they won the general election suggests that voters very quickly found out what direction Labour were heading, a direction which they presumably didn't approve of.
The fact that support for Labour collapsed more or less overnight after they won the general election
The support wasnt really there prior to the GE. The landslide was down to the tories support vanishing vs Labours small(ish) drop.
Yeah, I was referring to Labour's support collapsing from the 34% they received in the general election to less than 25% now.
The 34% of the electorate who voted Labour last July didn't really know what they were voting for, other than it wasn't the Tory Party, when they found out I believe that more than half were not satisfied.
Something similar seems to be happening with regards to Reform although it is unlikely that they will receive as much as 34%
Voters appear to be motivated to large extent by desperation rather than any confidence in the political choices presented to them.
Voters appear to be motivated to large extent by desperation rather than any confidence in the political choices presented to them.
Which is why lots of people were duped into voting for Brexit.
And yet they seem to be prepared listen to the same grifter all over again. Short memories and all that. And it will hit them negatively if they vote UKIP/Brexit/Reform into government… but if others get hit harder, they’ll claim (and some will believe) their own lives have been improved.
Short memories and all that.
What short memories? The advantage Farage has is he took a massive shit on the UK and then left it to others to try and sprinkle with glitter.
Brexit would have worked perfectly if he had been in charge (terms and conditions apply. "perfectly" might be used in a slightly nonstandard way) and hence thats why he needs to be in charge now.
What short memories? The advantage Farage has is he took a massive shit on the UK and then left it to others to try and sprinkle with glitter.
Brexit would have worked perfectly if he had been in charge (terms and conditions apply. "perfectly" might be used in a slightly nonstandard way) and hence thats why he needs to be in charge now.
Which is fine if you're using that line of argument to refute short memories specifically.
But you'd still need to be pretty stupid to believe it.
🤷♂️
Farage is Starmer's heroin - he's addicted to chasing the dragon.
Farage in charge will be another disaster that along with Brexit the damage to the majority of people in the country will take a generation or two to undo.
The trouble is, there isn't a smart choice to vote for at the moment, Starmer has been a ****ing disaster, and the biggest problem is the pretence of being a "labour" politician, the damage he has done to progressive politics by lying that is what he is (rather than the more accurate as a rather right wing tory clone), he has absolutely ****ed up the chance of starting a "controlled" progression back to fairer more equal politics. He has the power to change selling political influence to the highest bidder, to end the idiotic lobbying, the pretend think tanks selling oligarchy propaganda, and even the voting system (although personally I don't think that introducing PR without removing the money of the wealthy from politics will really achieve much at all).
He won't of course, so we will continue a slow death as neoliberalism strangles the life out of the majority to serve the few, until western economies collapse under the weight of that greed and narcissism.
So I think a lot of people are now starting to think that maybe labour have to actually win our votes instead of just assuming we will vote for them because of tradition, because of who they were rather than what they now are. That the only chance to get a better more caring politics is to punish the failure and hope they come back better.
I don't believe that, but I understand why that viewpoint exists, I think that if reform get power, just like Trump is the usa, they won't be shy in cementing their position of power by any means and democracy will be further eroded. But labour have the power to change that, and I blame them for not even trying, for ignoring the problem, for pretending that the problem doesn't exist. If Reform win the next election, it will be labours fault, so instead of continuing to shout at the tories, reform and trump, it is time to focus on our own current grifter of a PM while we still have a tiny chance of change, because by the next general election it will be too late (it may already be) .
I agree that serving MPs shouldn't be able to use thier position for personal financial gain.
Lobbying, party donations 'legal bribes' etc.. Nothing will really change.
We need PR, and if an MP can't survive on the 'basic salary' of £94k per year, then that really tells its own story.
We need PR but we also need to put a stop to the legalised bribary that a lot of MPs from all parties take full advantage of..
I agree that serving MPs shouldn't be able to use thier position for personal financial gain.
Lobbying, party donations 'legal bribes' etc.. Nothing will really change.
We need PR, and if an MP can't survive on the 'basic salary' of £94k per year, then that really tells its own story.
We need PR but we also need to put a stop to the legalised bribary that a lot of MPs from all parties take full advantage of..
You guys are going to be very upset when you learn about Rupert Lowe's new endeavour Restore Britain, this is where we're heading.
You guys are going to be very upset when you learn about Rupert Lowe's new endeavour Restore Britain, this is where we're heading.
😂 not really. All thats gonna do is further ftagment the right, and give the hard of thinking a slightly tougher decision.
You guys are going to be very upset when you learn about Rupert Lowe's new endeavour Restore Britain
Surely it's Nigel Farage who is going to be very upset?
Wasn't he kicked out of Reform UK for being such an arsehole that even they didn't want him?
I'm sure Farage is rather upset although as I understand it this isn't a new party it's more of a pressure group. It seemed to me that Lowe was kicked out on spurious reasons for being too popular, Farage's ego cant stand anyone taking his limelight.
Ben Habib has made a new party though, I don't see it getting much traction.
Wasn't he kicked out of Reform UK for being such an arsehole that even they didn't want him?
Yup but when you look at how many prominent reform people have been kicked out of their previous party its an obvious risk to them.
Just take Lee Anderson. Left Labour whilst suspended to join the tories who he then left whilst suspended to join reform.
If they dont see Reform as the last option before going independent then thats bad news for Farage.
Still at least reform are an alternative to Labour and the Conservatives (for those kicked out of either or both).
Restore Britain
What's the date of the last save point?
I'm sure Farage is rather upset although as I understand it this isn't a new party it's more of a pressure group. It seemed to me that Lowe was kicked out on spurious reasons for being too popular,
Well Rupert is certainly very popular with Elon Musk but if he was that popular with Reform members I am sure he would have been successful in ousting Farage.
And why should we be worried about Rupert's "pressure group" ? Presumably the idea is to pressurise Nigel Farage who he accuses of being messianic.
I'm not sure if pressure group is the right term, I'll stick with endeavour. Anyway, whatever you'd like to call it they've gained a significant amount of members in a very short time while advocating for policies which are well to the right of Reform.
Many people describe Reform as far right and fascist so I thought it might be both worrying and of interest that so many people support them. I see this as an indicator of the direction of travel we're heading in, perhaps I'm wrong.
Reform win the next election, it will be labours fault, so instead of continuing to shout at the tories, reform and trump, it is time to focus on our own current grifter of a PM while we still have a tiny chance of change, because by the next general election it will be too late (it may already be) .
We were ahead of the game in thinking this - people are quickly catching up now.
What's the date of the last save point?
1930 or 1950 I guess. Bit of empire left, foreigners and woman knew their place, lots of jobs in UK - what a dream.
Lowe is a hopeless drunk. He'll implode eventually, probably losing his rag with a (probably female) staffer and giving her a black eye.
Farage and Reform are tainted by association at having someone like him in their tawdry rabble - but even after Lowe left, they were still 25% domestic violence perpetrator with McMurdock on the books. Now he's been shown to be a crook and had the whip suspended, they've got up their "a woman's place is in the kitchen" game to keep their core vote happy. Maybe Lee Anderson could nut his missus and that will tide them over until McMurdock is miraculously cleared by their internal inquiry...
🤡
Wasn't he kicked out of Reform UK for being such an arsehole that even they didn't want him?
If you can stomach it, it is worth listening to his interview with Emily Matlis on Newsagents pod. It is quite remarkable just how unlikeable he is. He has Prince Andrew levels of 'unlikeability', a truly horrible person.
until McMurdock is miraculously cleared by their internal inquiry...
Sadly he has decided he can serve his self interest constituents best by being an independent. I assume the legal advice he got was "good luck"
You guys are going to be very upset when you learn about Rupert Lowe's new endeavour Restore Britain, this is where we're heading.
😂 not really. All thats gonna do is further ftagment the right, and give the hard of thinking a slightly tougher decision.
At the rate it’s going, there’s going to be a dozen different takes on Reform, each with half a dozen members who’ve been kicked out of the other parties for being reprehensible assholes… 🥱
not really. All thats gonna do is further ftagment the right, and give the hard of thinking a slightly tougher decision.
Wont matter, Farage/reform are getting more attention/AirPlay from the media and are all over Facebook/social media.
They'll vote for who’s shoved out in their feeds the most and that’s currently going to be a Farage Vehicle.
A lot of effort has been done in advance to engage/target/groom these people.(not necessarily by reform but they will get the benefit)
Farage literally has his own tv program and in peoples faces daily.
Exactly what Politics Joe have said is how he is ended up being more influential than the mainstream parties. Despite the very, very few MPs, he's identified how to use new media well and is exploiting the lack of that knowledge in the other parties (that still court the print media and TV).
Garage is all people see when they use Facebook, Twitter or the other random garbage. News outlets court him to avoid being seen as ignoring the right-wing fringe and it just elevates his profile.
Former Tory chairman Sir Jake Berry joins Nigel Farage’s Reform UK
https://www.itv.com/news/2025-07-09/former-tory-chairman-sir-jake-berry-joins-reform-uk
The only reason he lost his seat to Labour last July was because Reform UK split the Tory vote in Rossendale and Darwen.
If they maintain their present level of popularity Reform should easily win the seat I the next general election , I wonder whether he hopes to be the Reform candidate next election.
I suspect that quite a few career conscious Tories might be tempted by the lure of a safe Reform seat.
The only reason he lost his seat to Labour last July was because Reform UK split the Tory vote in Rossendale and Darwen.
Well, as that is the constancy next to us, I’d just like to correct you there comrade. The reason he lost his seat is because most people in that constituency think (quite correctly) that he’s an utter self-serving @*%# who did the square root of %#+@ all for them as he was far too busy with his Westminster politicking
If he aims to fight that particular seat for Reform then best of luck, but I think those that will be happiest will be the local Labour Party
Jake Berry has won Rossendale and Darwen FOUR times in previous general elections so it doesn't appear that being an "utter self-serving @*%#" has been much of a handicap for him.
What made the last general election different to previous ones was Reform took 22% of the vote in that seat last July.
Since July Reform have doubled their support nationally, if this is replicated in Rossendale and Darwen then 40+% will be an easy win for Reform. In case you haven't noticed support for Labour has collapsed since last July.
Although you have reassured us that Reform won't be around by the time of the next general election, so presumably there isn't anything to worry about. According to you.
Reform will be around, in some form or another but after another 4 years of alliance followed by division, with Farage as a cult rather than a leader, and also the plain evidence from local authorities that Reform can't run a bath let alone a country, this protest vote support will baulk at putting them in power. Who'd risk that, where you vote in someone who turns out to have a criminal past so that 6 weeks later you end up with a kid still at University as MoJ or something!
There'll also be the evidence of another 3.5 years of Trump and what 'why not give them a go' really looks like.
And finally there will be the evidence of four years of good policy implementation by small g government, that is already happening but ignored by MSM and here, that will see another round as the grown up choice.
I do think at some point small g government will have to reset and change big G (PM, Chancellor, maybe some others), who are currently by missteps in words and headline policies pulling down the good work being done. All the negativity is Starmer and Reeves, the UK Gov thread has barely mentioned anyone else for weeks. They need to shape up or ship out, and quick.
also the plain evidence from local authorities that Reform can't run a bath let alone a country, this protest vote support will baulk at putting them in power.
I hope you are right, not much evidence of that so far though, every single opinion poll since mid April has put Reform UK in the lead, and their level of support appears to now be very stable at 27-30%
All the negativity is Starmer and Reeves, the UK Gov thread has barely mentioned anyone else for weeks.
That will for three reasons. Firstly Sir Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves are two most important politicians in the UK government, secondly it is generally accepted, including by Labour MPs, that they have screwed up and done a shite job, and thirdly because the thread is specifically about the UK government.
If you want to mention on that thread all the positive achievements by the current UK government what's stopping you?
Jake Berry has won Rossendale and Darwen FOUR times in previous general elections so it doesn't appear that being an "utter self-serving @*%#" has been much of a handicap for him.
As one of his actual constituents I can say that Binners is closer to the money.
Berry is a slimy self publicist who did fok all at the local level and spent all his time slurping up to boris to get his knighthood.
Now he's got what he can he's moved off. I've seen interactions in the local Tesco when he's been having his picture taken for his website, and ignored perfectly civil questions about policy. I mean actively ignored, like he has not heard them at all.
I've tried to ask reasonable questions of him by email and actual letter - he refused to reply.
He has benefitted massively from a generation of crumblies who are terrified of being murdered in their beds by someone of a darker hue. And you can't trust labour to keep those boats away! Even though we are 50 miles from the sea. The Irish sea BTW, not the usual path from the continent.
I do hope he will get his arse handed to him again at the next election. He's a professional politician and I can't think of anything more useless than that.
The worry with all these Tory defections to Reform is the level of competence in the party is slowly increasing. Not by much, but still.
The first step to holding Garage to account would be to force him to register Reform as an actual political party and not a limited company, opening its accounts to scrutiny and having it play by the same rules as the other parties.
If you want to mention on that thread all the positive achievements by the current UK government what's stopping you?
You know the answer to that. Not interested in starting it all over again.
Well, as that is the constancy next to us, I’d just like to correct you there comrade. The reason he lost his seat is because most people in that constituency think (quite correctly) that he’s an utter self-serving @*%# who did the square root of %#+@ all for them as he was far too busy with his Westminster politicking
This. I live in Darwen and folk just got sick of seeing his mug smirking in the local press trying to stir up controversy about the big issues of Easter eggs appearing in shops early (I shit you not) to try to distract us from his mob looting the country's finances. The grifting shyster will fit in perfectly in Deform.
As one of his actual constituents I can say that Binners is closer to the money.
So unconnected to the fact that the Tories also lost another 250 seats on the same day that Jake Berry lost his seat?
Seems strange but fairy nuff.
Berry is a slimy one, he knows that as a Tory he has no hope of re-election, but he might be able to ride farages coat tails back in to westminster
As one of his actual constituents I can say that Binners is closer to the money.
So unconnected to the fact that the Tories also lost another 250 seats on the same day that Jake Berry lost his seat?
Seems strange but fairy nuff.
There might be two reasons for him losing his seat, it doesn't have to be one or the other