[Closed] My 11yo daughters are size 14 and my son is 20 stone - what am I doing wrong?

[i]but on a sub-conscious level, there's a lack of willingness to do anything about it. [/i]

Interested in the subconscious activity that influences people's behaviour. Hormones influence our state of mind and if those systems are out of whack, then peoples thoughts and choices/decisions will also be effected. Hence the leptin thing stimulating hunger or not, in relation to BF. Don't know about anyone else, but I don't consciously [i]think[/i] myself hungry. It just happens.

Fat people are thick then are they? Well after my huge pig out in the pub last night - mahoosive burger and chips (there was a side-salad - but we ignored each other), and a few pints, I thought I'd balance it out by the 15 mile commute in this morning, and the same home

According to my Runkeeper app, I've burned 639 calories on the way in, but... BUT... I'm absolutely bloody soaked. Seriously dripping! Like I've been hosed down, then thrown into a swimming pool.

So who's the daft **** then? Me? Or the biffer sat ramming pasties into their mouth, maybe having the first White Lightning of the day, sat on the sofa watching Jeremy Kyle? Eh? [b]EH?!!![/b]

I'll probably have bloody pneumonia by lunchtime. And even if I don't, I'll have to put all my sopping wet gear back on for the ride home. Pfft! I need a pie to make me feel better! Its soooooooo not fair 🙁

[i] "At what point did you look in the mirror and just stop caring?" [/i]

It should probably more be a case of;

"At what point did you look in the mirror and feel so overwhelmed by the problem that it was easier to ignore it than try and address it?"

[i]This is the point I reckon it would be most interesting to identify with overweight people.

Everytime I see a morbidly obese person, I think the same thing to myself: "At what point did you look in the mirror and just stop caring?" [/i]

I have a similar story. I know a guy, use to be champ for his area, oop north, etc, etc. He's less than 6' but around 25 stone. He knows about calories in and out, etc, from his training. But everytime he ques to pay for petrol, he'll pick up something from the shelves that lead to the till. And drive thru's make it just too easy for him.
He's a nice guy, great company and I find it tragic to see him eating himself to an early death.

"At what point did you look in the mirror and feel so overwhelmed by the problem that it was easier to ignore it than try and address it?"

Indeed, that's a better way of putting what I meant.

According to my Runkeeper app

😆 😆 😆

Its hard to believe that so many 11 year olds are obese. My son is 11, 145 cm tall and 34kg. He is skinny. His little brother is 9, nearly the same height, but about 1kg heavier. His little brother is less skinny, and eats more. I try and cook healthy food (never just re heat), but they are allowed a treat after school. My oldest is just less "bothered" about food. It will be easier for him to stay slim later in life.

Don't mock me Bravisimo

*bursts into tears*

*bursts into tears*

Here, have a fag binbins xx

"At what point did you look in the mirror and feel so overwhelmed by the problem that it was easier to ignore it than try and address it?"

There must be a split, no? Surely some bods do genuinely not give a shit they are packing it on, as well as those who stick their head in the [s]trifle[/s] sand in relation to the problem as, like you say, that is easier than addressing the underlying issues.

According to my Runkeeper app, I've burned 639 calories on the way in..

Seems veeeeery optimistic.

Binners.

You, you.... RUN to work ?... 😯

And no, I don't believe that fat people are [i]thick, or stupid[/i] but even if you found someone who wasn't fully up to speed. I'd like to think that they could learn how to eat, [i]sensibly[/i].

[i]At what point did you look in the mirror and feel so overwhelmed by the problem that it was easier to ignore it than try and address it?" [/i]

I'd suggest that someone is only going to feel overwhelmed if they don't know how to sort it. But that raises another facet to all this. People are, to one extent or another, at the mercy of their bodies and the biology going on there. But they may hold aspirations to look a certain way, have a certain style of physique.

Resignation
Denial
Anger
Depression

All factors.

And this:

Hormones influence our state of mind

Here, have a fag binbins xx

I can't. I've packed in. Which doesn't help my pie hankering 🙁

You, you.... RUN to work ?..

Nope. I ride. The app does that bicycling thing too. I'm not getting into all that Strava nonsense.

Seems veeeeery optimistic.

We have proper hills around here, remember. 1200ft of climbing over 15 miles.

Anyway... this is all beside the point. Are you not going to ask me how my burger was? 😆

[i]Are you not going to ask me how my burger was?[/i]

[img] [/img]

[i]Strava nonsense[/i]

What is [i]Strava[/i] ?.

you run 15 miles to work 😯

has your bike been nicked?

There must be a split, no? Surely some bods do genuinely not give a shit they are packing it on, as well as those who stick their head in the trifle sand in relation to the problem as, like you say, that is easier than addressing the underlying issues.

My best friend doesn't really care that much. In the 15 years I've known him he's never been thin and when he moved out from his parents to move to London he really put on weight. That said he was eating ready-meals for two on his own and eating dessert too. I had a couple of attempts at telling him to watch what he was eating (I also put on weight but started out quite skinny) as it was going to do him harm. The first time he listened and said he'd try then the second time the admitted he just didn't care enough. He's very bright, knows what it's doing to him and although I know he's trying now he has kids and wants to be there for them in later life, he's not doing loads to cut down his weight, he's just losing a little by eating a bit better.

Sometimes people just don't really care enough to change their eating habits.

Right! I've just downloaded Strava. This is peer pressure, this. I feel I'm being over-bantered 🙁

I hope you're all bloody happy if I have a massive (soggy) coronary on the way home 😈

massive (soggy) coronary

Sounds delicious!

[i]a massive (soggy) coronary on the way home[/i]

Do you want fries with that ?.

Nope not even that. My consultant friend loves to cook and makes everything from scratch. She is way better informed about nutrition than most people. She just likes nice food and wine.

According to my Runkeeper app, I've burned 639 calories on the way in

You've quit Binners? Well done, keep it up

[i]but they aren't all extra calories when you take your BMR into account. [/i]

I think you are spot on there and I reckon a lot of people might make the mistake of forgetting that burried within that figure of 639/whatever the readout displays, is the cals your body burns doing other stuff while you're commuting. Cals that would have been consumed anyway.

I think apps like this (and readouts on machines in gyms, etc) can be extremely misleading. Yes, you may be burning that many calories (although you probably aren't) but they aren't all extra calories when you take your BMR into account.

Not really the point. The point is that I've ridden 15 miles, climbing 1200ft, instead of driving to Greggs for a sausage butty 😉

Not really the point. The point is that I've ridden 15 miles, climbing 1200ft, instead of driving to Greggs for a sausage butty

Dr P - Member
Currently working in "2 beemer country" (Horsham) and haven't seen as many obese people by a long shot....

Woody - Member
There is definitely and obvious connection between poverty and obesity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and then there is Aberdeen

Supermarkets have got a lot to answer for.

"Buy one cake get another free" or this weeks special offer "3 stodgy items for the price of two".

You never see these sort of offers on anything which is remotely healthy.

When was the last time you saw 5 pieces of fruit for the price of 3 or 50% extra off the price of vegetables?

Yes there's a responsibility on the part of the parents, however families on low incomes will always be drawn towards the Supermarket "special offers", it's how people on low incomes are able to afford to eat!

Supermarkets are nothing more than drugs(sugar)pushers trying to maximimise profit as that's where the money is made.

[i]it's how people on low incomes are able to afford to eat![/i]

And are prices manipulated ?, are certain foods subsidized ?.

Remember what Nixon did for Corn ?...

it's how people on low incomes are able to afford to eat!

I will admit, of late, I've no idea how much a ready made pizza costs, nor how much burgers are, etc. I'm lucky enough no to have to pay any attention to the numbers on the shelf label. I just grab the veg and meat I like.

zilog6128 - Member
it's how people on low incomes are able to afford to eat!

Bollocks. That same excuse trotted out again. ASDA chicken wings: £1.69/kg. ASDA frozen peas: £1/kg. Show me any cakes or other nutrient-free items that are as cheap as that by weight please (offers included).

Whats weight got to do with it?

When was the last time you saw 5 pieces of fruit for the price of 3 or 50% extra off the price of vegetables?

Whats weight got to do with it?

Sorry, was busy cycling to work. 😀

721kcals according to Endomondo, 628kcals according to MyFitnessPal, 450kcals according to me guessing what seems reasonable 😀

Seems veeeeery optimistic.

Without useful inputs like heartrate and VO2 these apps can only ever [i]guess[/i] calories burnt based on very rough equations involving time/distance and your weight. Better than nothing, but IME they do overestimate by quite a bit.

..they aren't all extra calories when you take your BMR into account.

Hmmm.. not sure about that. The whole point of MyFitnessPal is to calculate your BMR, set a calorie goal under it, but allow exercise calories to be eaten.

My BMR is 1912kcal a day, so that averages as 79.6kcal an hour, so it isn't a large part of the calories these apps report. And I think MFP takes it off anyway, presumably why the MFP estimate is lower than the Endomondo one, even though they use the same formula:

Keytel LR, et al, [b]"Prediction of energy expenditure from heart rate monitoring during submaximal exercise"[/b], [i]J Sports Sci. 2005 Mar;23(3):289-97.[/i] [url= http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15966347 ]PubMed PMID: 15966347[/url]

+ figures from: http://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities

So she is willingly taking being overweight, as collateral damage for a fine eating and drinking experience?

Mmmm.. partly, though she doesn't [i]like[/i] being overweight. In fact she hates it. She's done various zero-carb diets and has used the Couch to 5k running programme to get to the point where she regularly goes out for 3 or 4 mile runs. But she struggles with depression and self-confidence issues, often leading her to the comfort of fine food or wine.

Vicious cycle. 🙁

zilog6128 - Member
Whats weight got to do with it?
Everything. If I was on the poverty line (thankfully I'm not) I would be looking for the most nutrient dense foods for my money.

And it's not going to be found in biscuits and cakes is it?

I think sometimes I live in a different world to you guys. Most of the people I know could tell you the special offers on at the usual fast food places, will buy only processed food that you heat up and will drink pretty heavily from Thursday night. About the only thing my mate Ali makes from stratch is toast.

They are adults on the surface, but really they're kids, another friend of mine lives of bars of chocolate and tubs of yoghurt, she's getting flabby, but is always saying things like " I'll go on a diet next week/month" whatever. These are the people that just get a bit bigger everyday, they don't notice, and as most of the people they know are the same, they won't do anything about it.

The mags don't hep though, pictures of airbrushed stick thin models that have unobtainable body shapes and give you unrealistic ideas of beauty

And it's not biscuits and cakes is it?

When was the last time you saw 5 pieces of fruit for the price of 3 or 50% extra off the price of vegetables?

Quite a lot actually, particularly if you buy things in season rather than, say, strawberries in December.

zilog6128 - Member
And it's not biscuits and cakes is it?
No, it's meat & veg, which by weight are cheaper than biscuits and cakes.
POSTED 22 SECONDS AGO # REPORT-POST

The weight of something has no bearing on it's nutritonal value.

atlaz - Member
When was the last time you saw 5 pieces of fruit for the price of 3 or 50% extra off the price of vegetables?
Quite a lot actually, particularly if you buy things in season rather than, say, strawberries in December.

POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Show me any supermarket that is currently offering fruit or vegtables at a discounted price.

I can show you plenty that have special offers on "stodge".

most of the supermarkets put fruit that's on the turn up at 50% extra free or 2 for 1.

They'd rather you took it home and threw it away uneaten than they had to pay trade waste prices to get it disposed of.

40% of all food purchased in the uk is not eaten according to a chap on Radio 4 the other day.

Zilog

But biscuits and cakes are yummy and will make you feel better and are cheap, and you don't have to cook them, just sit on the sofa and eat.

The weight of something has no bearing on it's nutritonal value.

What about satiety/£ ratio?

I can eat a huge plate of vegetables costing several pounds and still feel hungry.

I think sometimes I live in a different world to you guys.

You probably do.

Not saying anything personal - it's the class divide innit. A lot of people here are very unaware of how half their country goes about their lives.

And pies are better than both biscuits and cakes, AND fruit and veg. Therefore pies are the best food. FACT!

Everything. If I was on the poverty line (thankfully I'm not) I would be looking for the most nutrient dense foods for my money

Show me any supermarket that is currently offering fruit or vegtables at a discounted price.

I can show you plenty that have special offers on "stodge".

I can show you several but they'd be outside the UK as that's where I live. However, my local Sainsburys in Surrey last year used to regularly have BOGOF or similar on apples, veg etc

The weight of something has no bearing on it's nutritonal value.

What about satiety/£ ratio? I can eat a huge plate of vegetables costing several pounds and still feel hungry.

But biscuits and cakes are yummy [s]and will make you feel better and are cheap,[/s] and you don't have to cook them, just sit on the sofa and eat.

Maybe you would, but the fat poor people I see in supermarkets tend to be loading up on frozen pizza and giant bags of crisps. The only concession to a healthy lifestyle being the diet coke.

The mags don't hep though, pictures of airbrushed stick thin models that have unobtainable body shapes and give you unrealistic ideas of beauty

It's confusing this isn't it?

On the one hand everyone else getting fatter means we apparently have changing perceptions of what a normal healthy body size is, leading us to get fatter.

And on the other hand we have unobtainable, sometimes physically quite impossible, photoshopping of already insect-like models promoted as the "ideal".

Satiety is (IME) dependent on eating fat (and to a lesser extent protein) not carbs.

Not IME.

Carbs stimulate leptin production. Many times I've eaten a huge meal of beans/veg/meat and still felt hungry. A couple of biccies later and straight away I'm sated.

My problem on the iDave diet is that I end up eating big meals because they don't fill me up, and I end up with too many calories overall.

And as for cakes making you feel better - they do. In the short term...

Here's a good one:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201105/sunlight-sugar-and-serotonin

However, my local Sainsburys in Surrey last year used to regularly have BOGOF or similar on apples, veg etc

My local Asda (just outside Surrey!) has regular BOGOFs on fruit and veg. Last week it was grapes and tomatoes. Pretty much every week there's special offers on spuds, they even sell unwashed spuds at even cheaper prices.

It is easy to eat cheap and healthy, but it's easier to eat cheap and unhealthy as Emsz illustrates in her posts.

Yes, yes, thats all very well.... But we are all agreed that the pie is the very pinnacle of human culinary and nutritional evolution? Possibly to the point where it warrants its own religion?

Here you go Binners
Religion pie 😉
[img] [/img]

And on the other hand we have unobtainable, sometimes physically quite impossible, photoshopping of already insect-like models promoted as the "ideal"

I used to be underweight for a woman my height but have now progressed to being underweight for a man my height in middle age

When we did the Olympic athlete calculator to see who you were most like they were all women 😯

Not IME.

Carbs stimulate leptin production. Many times I've eaten a huge meal of beans/veg/meat and still felt hungry. A couple of biccies later and straight away I'm sated.

I've got pasty for lunch and binners has made me want to eat it now.

With a nice mug of tea.

*wanders off to put kettle on*

But we are all agreed that the pie is the very pinnacle of human culinary and nutritional evolution?

Yep, definitely

Possibly to the point where it warrants its own religion?

Not sure, don't want the Pastafarians to start hurling canneloni and lasagne again. The gnocchi battles were bad enough, introducing a third carbohydrate into an already knife-edge situation could be asking for trouble.

Also it's only a matter of time before the tarts start wanting their own outlets, then it's just going to be patisseries everywhere.

Eat the pasty now, then nip to the chippy at lunchtime. Sorted! 😀

Food never will be about price or whether it's good for you though. In my circle of friends I'm the odd one!! I can cook, and I shop for ingredients, but sometimes it's just nicer to get a bowl of fruit loops, smash choccy digestives into it and pour in chocolate milk!! The difference is for me thats a guilty treat after my Sunday long run, for some of my friends that's dinner... Day in day out.

But. It's not just about food, that's just part of the issue, we ( my generation) are going to struggle to get jobs houses all that stuff, and we are always shown the stuff we can't get in adverts and on the telly phones, cars, houses, bodies and part if that is food programmes. It's like " we make it so you don't have to" it's out of reach, like everything else, may as well have a mars bar and coke, least it's cheap!!

Speak for yourself fatty

I used to be underweight for a woman my height..

😆

Yes but are your legs barely thicker than those of the chair you are sitting on?

[img] [/img]
http://www.psdisasters.com/2012/09/made-bird-legs.html

And is your neck longer than your head?

[img] [/img]
http://www.psdisasters.com/2011/02/vampire-drearies-goiter-be-kidding-me.html

[img] [/img]
http://www.psdisasters.com/2012/08/kohls-heads-up.html

, and we are always shown the stuff we can't get in adverts and on the telly phones, cars, houses, bodies and part if that is food programmes

You're right, and it's a shame that so many people are persuaded to validate themselves in the ways that Marketing people want them too. I had hopes for the generation following mine (I'm mid 30's), that they'd be so immersed in a world of advertising and marketing that they'd be able to easily figure out what was rubbish and what the truth was. Trouble is so many resources are poured into telling people they're cr*p unless they buy/eat/consume XYZ product it's overwhelming and all consuming (if you'll excuse the pun).

I do wonder how we'll get out of the maelstrom we've got ourselves caught up in... ...Going to read my kids "Affluenza" tonight, get in there before the Ad Men do!

Yes but are your legs barely thicker than those of the chair you are sitting on?

* may not be completely true

I for one would like to see full length photo's of all the people posting on this thread, just to be absolutely sure that they're not full of shit.

The problem is simple, it's the same problem that enables a mentally retarded culture to go around criticising people they don't really know or care about.

The way most people perceive the world they live in and themselves including their bodies is abusive, strange to have GrahamS one of the most abrasive and abusive individuals on STW, criticising others about being abusive.

Junkyard I would have thought you would have far more problems with the collars on Tshirts being far too tight for your neck!

GrahamS one of the most abrasive and abusive individuals on STW

😯

Blimey! I hope that's not really how I come across.
It's not like I go around calling people "retards" and suggesting they are full of shit.

[i]*reaches for a comforting Jaffa Cake*[/i]

I for one would like to see full length photo's of all the people posting on this thread, just to be absolutely sure that they're not full of shit.

it's the same problem that enables a mentally retarded culture to go around criticising people they don't really know or care about.

thanks god you dont stoop to the levels of criticising people you dont really know ...oh hold on a minute 🙄

strange to have GrahamS one of the most abrasive and abusive individuals on STW, criticising others about being abusive.

Junkyard I would have thought you would have far more problems with the collars on Tshirts being far too tight for your neck!

How do you get yours over your tin foil hat?

FWIW we have been very restrained IMHO but if you continue like this I will tell you HONESTLY what i think of you 😉

I for one would like to see full length photo's of all the people posting on this thread

clothes on or off?

blimey kaesae

re cheap fruit and veg, aldi normally do a 39p selection of stuff, varies each week, mind you they also do scrummy 99p double pepperoni pizzas which kinda undoes all that good work

GrahamS one of the most abrasive and abusive individuals on STW

really 😯

I usually notice his posts because for quite a long time, I thought he was a GrahamS I was at uni with and I've always thought him a pretty reasonable type of person (though with a bit of a blind spot on Apple based products 😉 )

I wouldn't say that eating healthily needs to be expensive.

I started getting a bit lardy of late, nothing major just a general increase in flab which I wasn't happy about.

Looking for ways to eat healthier snacks at work, I decided to try chopped up veg...
Tesco do a bag of peppers, a thing of celery & a 1kg bag of carrots for £3.
I have half a pepper, 1 celery stick & some carrots cut up in a pot every day at work. If I feel hungry mid morning or afternoon I just eat veg until I am no longer peckish. That £3 will easily do me for a week, realistically more.

So, I doubt you would eat 100g of celery, carrots & peppers as snacks but if you did you'd consume a grand total of 68 calories...

But, cutting up veg every day takes a bit of effort and people at work look at me like I am nuts as they trudge downstairs to the vending machine.
Don't get me wrong, I still eat my fair share of crap, but it's about finding a balance.

But. It's not just about food, that's just part of the issue, we ( my generation) are going to struggle to get jobs houses all that stuff, and we are always shown the stuff we can't get in adverts and on the telly phones, cars, houses, bodies and part if that is food programmes. It's like " we make it so you don't have to" it's out of reach, like everything else, may as well have a mars bar and coke, least it's cheap!!

Sorry, but that's nothing new. I didn't get a foot on the property ladder until my mid-30s (and that, frankly, was a lucky redundancy gifting me the deposit) and I've cooked since the day I left home at 18. When I was at uni I worked out REALLY quickly that I could cook food for a week on what a couple of days of junk food cost me (but I lived with 3 people who also cooked so we encouraged each other and shared). Adverts still showed us the same stuff it shows you now, but with less restrictions on what could be advertised. Yes, there were more jobs around but I had friends who graduated and took a long time to get jobs too and often not in their chosen careers.

It's really easy to say that your friends eat junk food for some arbitrary reason but for a large percentage of people in their early 20s that I know, they really don't cook because they can't be arsed. You can cook because you want to cook. Lack of willpower isn't something that can be blamed in a blanket measure on the media or society.

you say that stumpy.... but i finish off about 4 415g bags of carrot batons and 3-4 packest of celery a week from the tescos near my work

I for one would like to see full length photo's of all the people posting on this thread, just to be absolutely sure that they're not full of shit.

Charity "STW middle-managers in IT careers in front of Audis" calendar anyone?

I thought he was a GrahamS I was at uni with

Strathclyde Uni, BSc Comp Sci (Hons), graduated 1997?

I've always thought him a pretty reasonable type of person

[i]*wipes away tears and goes to the bathroom to throw up a pack of Jaffa Cakes*[/i]

I for one would like to see full length photo's of all the people posting on this thread

I'm trying to set the camera timer up to get the classic pose of my best angle. Just like this...

[img] ?345c8960c5484952b4411b83c62d17f0ae245bc0[/img]

Its proving difficult. The bathing costume's not helping, to be honest. And I still can't get used to heels.

Just out of interest... when has GrahamS been abusive?

Just out of interest... when has GrahamS been abusive?

I suspect kaesae is harbouring a slight grudge because on [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/at-the-current-rate-of-deterioration-in-the-global-weather-systems-patterns ]other threads I pointed out that some of his less mainstream theories don't [i]quite[/i] marry up with empirical evidence[/url] (aka "reality").

You are SO abusive. In modern society there should be enough space for all alternative, tin foil hat wearing nutjobs to have their ideas and have them classed as equally valid as those supported by actual evidence rather than an idea after 7 pints and some shrooms.

You still have a higher opinion of his views than i do 😉

To be fair, his bushing removal tool is okay for the price.

Hey he hates capitalism too
he eventually started calling it Imperialist capitalism after i kept pointing out to him he was a capitalist:roll:
He never actually answered the question directly- bit like he never answered where he got his frames from which first brought him to this happy place.

The problem is simple, it's the same problem that enables a mentally retarded culture to go around criticising people they don't really know or care about.

...on so many levels.

@Junkyard.

Just pants on, please.

Philconsequnce - so 4 bags of carrot sticks at 415g each is 1.6kg of carrots. Which is still only about 465 calories...

Apparently, a mars bar is 260cals. So 2 mars bars is more than a weeks worth of snacking carrots.

Perhaps I'm not making my point very well, but people are saying that eating healthily is expensive, but I don't believe it needs to be. If I were to buy a kitkat each day for a snack instead of the veg I eat it would cost about £3/week and I'd consume 1165 calories compared to approximately £3/week (actually a fair bit less than that) and a calorie intake of 340 for the veg. 800 calories less PER WEEK at no more cost, just by changing 1 snack choice.
And the veg I eat does me for a morning and an afternoon snack (amongst other snacks like yogurt), whereas if I had the kitkat in the morning I'd probably want something else in the afternoon...

Isn't there a possibility you could die of boredom though?

Bored of an entire vegetable based diet...thems fighting words..oh hold on I feel weak and tired...snores

I've always thought him a pretty reasonable type of person (though with a bit of a blind spot on Apple based products

You'd be moaning quick enough if you heard his views on Pie based products.

[i]1.6kg of carrots[/i]

a week 😯

[img] [/img]

4 bags of carrot sticks at 415g each is 1.6kg of carrots. Which is still only about 465 calories...

So you'd need to eat more than five times that to meet the recommended daily intake of 2500kcals for a man.

8kgs of carrots...

Or one bag of fish and chips...

😀