It does. Normally we would be on that beach or in the loch this weekend. Glenmore Campsite is definitely closer until end of June though.
TJ - why not cycle down the E. Lothian coast a bit and camp at the beach?
Aboyne here... it's been absolutely hoaching all day.
Hundreds of noisy motorbikes that are very much more than 5k from home...
Lots of folk out enjoying the sun in Edinburgh - Meadows, Holyrood Park etc. Small groups, a few beers and the odd BBQ. Nice to see some "real-life"(tm) and seems almost everyone is sticking with the rules.
The 5 mile thing was never going to hold and doesn’t make much sense. As long as you don’t stop for fuel or anything it’s got to be better to head somewhere quiet rather than obsess about some arbitrary distance. Obviously that’s the nearest quiet spot not going half way across the country or anything 😀
Ygh
The need is to get the flip away from everyone. normally we would be up in a corner of the Highlands where no one goes. No water either on the beach
I've just had a thought (steady...)
It's OK to drive for a reasonable distance (no upper limit) to go and visit someone outside of their house. You need to maintain 2m separation and to remember bladder control.
You can't take any exercise if it's more than 5 miles from your home.
So, if someone drove for an hour to see me, we couldn't even go for a walk?
The need is to get the flip away from everyone
Says man living in a flat in middle of city. 😂
So, if someone drove for an hour to see me, we couldn’t even go for a walk?
The host could.
The visitor should stay put.
HTH
Same here. I have seen camping taking place a few times in East Lothian. Lammermuirs just within range, but not just yet.
Tried a walk in the Zone today.. beaches too busy now so needed to use roads a bit.. it was terrifying, speed limits are a thing of the past. It seems so much worse than when out on the bike (bad enough)
Will go further next time
I’ve just had a thought (steady…)
It’s OK to drive for a reasonable distance (no upper limit) to go and visit someone outside of their house. You need to maintain 2m separation and to remember bladder control.
You can’t take any exercise if it’s more than 5 miles from your home.
So, if someone drove for an hour to see me, we couldn’t even go for a walk?
You can travel in England but it is still very much discouraged in Scotland.
From Scottish govt information,
'Travel for exercise, recreation and to meet friends and family outdoors
You should avoid crowded places where physical distancing may be difficult.
For this reason, our advice is that you should stay within your local area when you go outside for exercise or other activities.
As a guide, rather than a fixed limit, 5 miles from your home would be within your local area.'
'It is acceptable to travel outside your local area to meet members of another household in an outdoor space such as a private garden, but you should use your judgement about how far to travel. Keep in mind that the purpose of the continuing restrictions is to prevent the transmission of the virus, including to those we care about.
For this reason, you should avoid long journeys that would require you to use indoor facilities such as toilets while away from home, as the risk of transmitting the virus is greater indoors, and the virus could be transmitted by or to you when you touch surfaces.'
Nobeer
Exactly. That's why!
Well, I'm out for a wee ride, no more than 5 miles from home. I've brought a picnic and something comfy to sit on. Feeling a bit sleepy so I might have 40 winks before riding home.
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/49953260866/ ]IMG_20200530_214247_HDR[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/22384952@N02/ ]Colin Cadden[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode ]Flickr2BBcode[/url]
Well you’ve seen the Cairngorms National Park post, so dinnae linger....
For this reason, you should avoid long journeys that would require you to use indoor facilities such as toilets while away from home
It must be hard to come up with guidance that is simple and covers everything, but I can’t help thinking this is a more useful guide than the rather arbitrary 5 mile idea. Go somewhere quiet and don’t use any facilities (petrol stations, toilets etc) while you are out, should cover it.
ps. Sleep well @scotroutes
For this reason, you should avoid long journeys that would require you to use indoor facilities such as toilets while away from home
See, I don't get this one.
What are you supposed to do after using the toilet?
What are you supposed to do more of to prevent the spread of the virus?
Yeah.
I get not sitting indoors but ffs I go to the toilet at work which is shared with a hell of a lot more individual households from a hell of a lot more towns. Put a seperate towel out for guests and make sure the place is clean, not hard.
It's a bloody stupid rule.
I get not sitting indoors but ffs I go to the toilet at work which is shared with a hell of a lot more individual households from a hell of a lot more towns. Put a seperate towel out for guests and make sure the place is clean, not hard.
It’s a bloody stupid rule.
It’s not, you’re not supposed to go into someone else’s home. Needing the loo is something that is pretty urgent and kind of forces the breaking of rules (you really going to stop a mate who needs?).
One of the vectors of transmission is airborne faecal matter (droplets) From a toilet flush. Never mind all the hard surfaces you can touch in, during and on the way out...
It’s simple, and to the point (and not difficult to adhere to/interpret).
Re. work loos: the risk is still there. They need to restart the economy somehow (and that’s why the advice is wfh if you can (as it’s safer...)).
Isn't that why you close the lid before you flush? And what about all the hard surfaces you touch going to the shops? What about the hard surfaces in the garden? Is it really that hard to just keep your hands away from your face and apply some hand sanitiser?
There is being cautious and just plain hysterical, it seems to me like a lot of people have gone beyond sensible and are just wrapping themselves up in knots about it all. I see it every day with hysterical lockdown police greetin about cyclists from the next town along passing through here whilst ignoring the fact everyone piles into the supermarket in an unenforced free for all.
closing the lid before you flush is a myth. all that happens is instead of a low velocity spray out of the bowl you get a high velocity spray out of the gap between lid and bowl
Huh, okay. It still doesn't change the fact though that using someone's toilet carries several times lower risk than me going to my work.
As Metalheart says, are you REALLY going to tell someone who is caught short to go elsewhere?
its about balancing risk and benefit.
My workplace cannot have social distancing in any form - but as its a hospital the benefits of keeping it open are high
Going to someone elses house the risk level is similar to you at work but the benefits are much less.
Its also about producing guidence that is simple and easy to understand. One size fits all will always produce anomalies
Huh, okay. It still doesn’t change the fact though that using someone’s toilet carries several times lower risk than me going to my work.
What if you add both those risks together? That one thing carries a larger risk is not a reason to engage in things that carry a smaller risk.
Going to someone elses house the risk level is similar to you at work but the benefits are much less.
Mental health benefits for people who haven't seen anyone else since lockdown started?
That's why I think it's stupid. On one hand you are telling folk they can now see their family and friends and on the other you are saying only if they live within range of your own toilet. The simple truth is you would probably have seen those people anyway in exactly the conditions given. The new guidance is essentially no different to previous guidance except you can have a round of golf (with no toilet conditions attached). Essentially it's just ****ing with everyone who doesn't have anyone to visit within a 2 minute radius of their house.
You can drive to visit someone. No actual maximum distance suggested, only your bladder determines it. I can go hours without needing a piss, but I do accept that some folk can't, and some folk also have medical conditions that might affect this.
So that’s two fires last night caused by campers in the Pentlands. Tolcross crew posted on FB how they struggled to get up Bonaly Rd due to the parked cars. The problem with rules you see is that they apply to other people, not me. So I’ll fit the narrative to what I want to do. At the end of the day the risk of catching this virus is still there and while it’s been suppressed a bit given there’s arguable immunity and no cure as such it will continue to come and go as people go about their lives. Funny how a few weeks ago it was all live and harmony and be kind, now it’s - bugger it I’m off camping. What is disappointing is the attitude of the 18-25 ish who don’t seem to think any of this affects them.
Seems to be a regular Sunday here, various folks out, visitors round, teenagers making their way home from whatever gaff they spent the night at. People posting up pictures online of overnight camping, Loch side bbqs, etc.
Nicola seems to be warning now of a second wave, and she’s been fairly accurate for Scotland through this so far...
Lots of family groups out and about. None of them keeping 2m distance. This is what I don’t understand. Ok you haven’t seen the grandkids for a couple of months. But why can’t you just keep separated. It’s not difficult. R is rising as we speak.
Pretty calm this morning, but why the need for protracted conversations in the middle of paths... ie the middle of the road.
Last night and today a huge increase in motor bikes, fast cars and supercars.
Last night saw an Aventador, F430 and two McLaren's... Today saw a good few dodgy over takes of us on bikes or other cars.
Callendar had two police bikes and two police cars around and a big flashing sign saying all the parking was closed and if you're not local, you're not welcome.
Apart from the lunacy of the main road, it was like a TDF coming the other way around the Brae's ride. We must have seen well over 100 cyclists in a two hour ride.
I just had my first real conversation with a pal in real life for more than 2 months! Round to a pals to sit in his garden and drink beer! It was great. thanks bikepawl
Ah...TJ and Bikepawl, the legendary tandem snapping tag team! Glentress Red circa 2008 IIRC
NZCol
MemberSo that’s two fires last night caused by campers in the Pentlands. Tolcross crew posted on FB how they struggled to get up Bonaly Rd due to the parked cars. The problem with rules you see is that they apply to other people, not me.
It's annoying me that so many people are responding "well they should open the car parks". Yep, because then more people will go because they hear the car parks are open, and they'll all massively overflow except for possibly Threipmuir, and then everyone will block the roads anyway. The problem isn't a lack of parking spaces, it's parking where you bloody shouldn't.
Makes me want to abuse my Pentland Hills Users facebook powers.
There is a certain irony in people complaining about all the folk on bikes they see when they're out for a ride..... While that's broad-brush stuff, I'm out a lot and 90% of people are being cool with the rules and it probably seems like noone is catching it in the park or supermarket anyway.
The bawbags were out in force yesterday but they do self police. One little winked tried to push my 7 year old off her bike (which was on our followme) when we stopped to get through a gate. Usual pale burnt pissed 16 year old. His mate had a properly calibrated moral compass and decked him ! My daughter was mostly oblivious and we just made off as as his mate properly laid into him 😂 Not good in many ways but there is hope.
I think it's utterly brilliant that more folk are on bikes.
Long may it last.
For me, debating the nuances of what is allowed under the rule changes is a bit of red herring. The question that matters is do you actually think the situation has become safer?
I am not convinced that the risk has decreased enough yet, and I'm not confident that an effective track and trace system is in place yet in Scotland. The claims by Matt Hancock that he actually managed to bring forward the launch of an effective English track and trace system is obviously a ridiculous lie. If you read the accounts of the experts and people who have been recruited, it is clearly an utter shambles.
My wife has been round the corner with the kids to visit her parents in the garden, but I'm not minded to change my behaviour yet. I'm sticking to WFH, one trip a week to the supermarket, solo cycling and splendid isolation, until I see more evidence of how things are panning out.
I’m sticking to WFH
I was surprised, and pleased, to see that working from home is part of the Scottish plan all the way from Phase 1 to Phase 4 and only stops once normality is resumed.
Things seemed a bit mixed this weekends- we saw friends in our garden, stuck to the two metre rule and went out on our bikes. The cycle paths were quieter, we assume because people were flocking to their pals' houses as the roads were much, much busier with cars. And the parks are heaving.
At 8am the Pentlands were the busiest I've seen them since this locked off and people were driving as close as the could to the Residents Only signs to park before heading into the hills and that's why the 5 mile thing is in place- if it were allowed and easy to park the popular spots in the Highlands would be heaving.
I’m not minded to change my behaviour yet. I’m sticking to WFH, one trip a week to the supermarket, solo cycling and splendid isolation,
Which is basically my life at the moment. Difference is, my wife works in community nursing so is, and always has been, the most likely transmission vector in our household. We're 99% sure we've both had the virus but that's not making me switch off.
I was surprised, and pleased, to see that working from home is part of the Scottish plan
It’s part of the official PHE plan too (except as they haven’t the phase plan Scotland has I don’t know how long it extends to). Their guidance says WFH where you can...
Apparently half of glasgow went to balloch and loch lomond over the weekend. They also left tons of litter, glass and were a proper menace. I can see this shifting back to a firer lockdown. Police apparently handcuffed as they guidance of 5 miles isnt a law.
Well, I am setting and marking some work, arguing over the colour of shite( or department meeting as it is sometimes known) then going to see my Mum and Dad for the first time since early March. Time is short for my Mum, so 10 weeks has been hard. To be honest, and it's got its own thread; lockdown is over in people's minds, I was seeing an increase in traffic out here and the Cummings press conference was the final nail in the coffin. Surely it would be better to try and fight the battles they might win?
Apparently half of glasgow went to balloch and loch lomond over the weekend. They also left tons of litter, glass and were a proper menace. I can see this shifting back to a firer lockdown. Police apparently handcuffed as they guidance of 5 miles isnt a law.
The other half came up to Glen Etive, threw the road closure signs into the heather and decorated the place with their usual ornaments. Pricks.
Have to agree with thegreatape and duckman. I cycled round loch leven (highland) on Saturday traffic was back to normal pre lockdown levels, lots of tourists . People camping, barbecues. It's not looking good, hopefully people will catch on and restrict themselves, and quickly.
Wife's pal drove 40 miles to her boyfriends on saturday, and went up a local hill, then proceeded to complain about the amount of cars that were parked in laybys around that area.
🙁
Rain arrives tomorrow, along with lower temperatures. Hopefully, that will put a literal dampener on things.
Insurance on my motorbike runs out today. It's currently SORNed. I can't decide whether or not it's worth taxing it.
Aye, I think so. Prestwick beach was pretty quiet at the weekend, probably cos everyone was either getting pissed in their gardens with family and friends, or away to the hills.
The other half came up to Glen Etive, threw the road closure signs into the heather
I'd be having words with her about that.
😀
One positive from Saturdays cycle round the loch was the large number of locals on bikes. Hope this is a long lasting change and people are not put off by the inevitable rise in traffic
One positive from Saturdays cycle round the loch was the large number of locals on bikes
Absolutely this. I actually said to my wife yesterday when along NCR7 that this is like Holland, but warmer. 🙂
Push bikes or motorbikes?! There were dozens of the latter going past yesterday when we were at Bishop’s Bay and the same on the A828 on Saturday.
Tbh, the organ donors have been rattling about their noisy business since lockdown started, and speed limits don't apply to them, even in the middle of town.
Dispersal notices handed out by the police on Saturday were 5x the the previous week's number.
FM has threatened to make the advice law if even the minority don't adhere to them.
@thegreatape It was mostly pushbikes I saw on the Kinlochleven road on Saturday. Saw plenty motorbikes on the A82 on Sunday
I'm sitting at my front window watching 2 people visit a girl across the road
They're standing in the street keeping the right distance.
However, they're also passing a bottle of juice around that they're all handling and drinking from!!!
Someone will drink from it, place it on the ground then step back and the next person will pick it up
Utter stupidity
Lol, ye don't have see some thick ****s about.
I nearly ran over 3 teenagers last night who were "sunbathing" on a local trail, 2 guys and a girl. I'm not in Ayrshire anymore so I'm reasonably certain they weren't from the same family 😉
Pretty much every green space I rode passed had large groups mingling in them. The roads at least during the evenings and weekend are as busy as normal. Nicola will be telling us to get back in our box shortly.
This is why we can't have nice things
I’m not in Ayrshire anymore so I’m reasonably certain they weren’t from the same family
Naw, you're in Uddingston, I'd use the term 'girl' loosely.
two people charged with culpable and reckless conduct.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52892409
The stay at home rule is still the number one rule. Only meant to go out for exercise not hobbies.
Here's the rain. Hopefully calm things down a bit.
Terrible round my way. Large groups of teenagers/ twenty somethings
and groups in cars. Not misbehaving in a pre pandemic way just not staying any meaningful distance apart. Lots of roadies riding in really close knit groups too. Let’s hope we aren’t heading back to full lockdown again
poah
Member
two people charged with culpable and reckless conduct.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52892409
The stay at home rule is still the number one rule. Only meant to go out for exercise not hobbies.
Wrong. The Scottish Govt says you can go out for some activities.
From tomorrow (29 May), unrestricted outdoor exercise and some non-contact outdoor activities within the local area – such as golf, outdoor tennis and angling – can resume provided physical distancing is followed. It does not mean that taking part will always be safe. You should use judgement and take part only if you can do so safely, maintaining physical distancing and not putting yourself or others at risk.
https://www.gov.scot/news/lockdown-begins-to-ease-in-phase-1/
Using Culpable and reckless conduct to punish hillwalkers is ridiculous. Hopefully the PF will drop these charges. It has always been used where there is serious risk to others. Hillwalking does not pose a serious risk. As for exceeding the 5 mile limit. The SNP govt chose not to make that a law. It isn't up to the poice to try and stretch existing laws to fit.
They put mountain rescue at risk. I am quite happy with the charges
Using Culpable and reckless conduct to punish hillwalkers is ridiculous.
They're not being "punished" for hillwalking. They are being charged because during lockdown, they ignored the official guidannce to make an extended, unnecessary journey which they weren't properly prepared for and put other people at risk because they had to come out and rescue them.
They’re not being “punished” for hillwalking. They are being charged because during lockdown, they ignored the official guidannce to make an extended, unnecessary journey which they weren’t properly prepared for and put other people at risk because they had to come out and rescue them.
This.
Plenty people have made errors on the hill and had to be rescued. They haven't been charged. Plenty people have gone hillwalking or on the water at the sea without proper equipment and been rescued without being charged.
The charge is totally out of proportion to what they did.
If any of the motorbikers on the A82 last weekend had crashed more than 5 miles from home would they have been charged? Risk to the ambulance crew?
Any risk to the MRT is minimal. Goes with the territory. If they want to be risk free don't be on an MRT.
No sympathy for them.
Stirling Council posting the following on FB. Not entirely sure how to interpret other than that rule no 1 has been broken many times. Was getting very tempted to do some incognito park and ride 10 or so miles from home but this has probably put me off.
⚠️ Unfortunately, people are continuing to disregard the national guidance to #StayLocal (5 miles) for outdoor recreation and exercise.
This is putting pressure on our rural communities at an extremely challenging time, with an increase in cars and rubbish.
We will be boosting our enforcement presence and issuing tickets to cars parked illegally over the next 2 days in the following areas:
✅ #Balmaha,
✅#Callander,
✅ #Aberfoyle
✅#Stirling city centre
Any risk to the MRT is minimal. Goes with the territory. If they want to be risk free don’t be on an MRT.
Do you want to think about that statement for a bit. Now add in you having an ankle snapper 5miles from a trailhead.
They volunteer to help they don't need an extra potentially fatal complication. If they all decided to take your advice how would your 5mile walk out feel?
Entirely appropriate to charge them. This whole lockdown easing is a predictable shambles as unfortunately in this day and age the general population can’t be trusted to act appropriately. Fair enough wanting to get out and exercise or have a nice socially distanced day out, absolutely fine but when it’s an entitled scrum of litter and defecating in public places then I’m all for enforcement and solid enforcement at that. Some of the behaviour and attitudes I saw last week really did sadden me. All we can do is try and encourage the next generations to be better than that. I’m miles really from anything visitable but there’s a popular walk goes near my house and some lovely family, who I caught doing it, stashed a bag of rubbish in my garden ! I was riding up the hill to home and saw them do it so shouted at them and told them take it with them, then ended up giving it back to them. Seems they dumped it further up the road. Why ? They’d been at the park and didn’t want to carry it home, after having carries it there. Astounds me.
Any risk to the MRT is minimal. Goes with the territory. If they want to be risk free don’t be on an MRT.
I don't remember tolerance of potentially deadly communicable viruses being on the description.
I must admit, while I don't have any sympathy for the two idiots, I'm not entirely comfortable with them being charged. I wonder whether it is one of those charges designed for a bit of publicity that will then be quietly dropped. After all, we don't live in a police state so they have to have broken a law and I'm not sure what law they broke. The 5 miles is guidance so they can't be charged for that. Going into the hills unprepared and then putting others at risk when they have to rescue you is annoying, but again it's not actually against the law. Obviously Covid-19 isn't the only deadly communicable disease, so MRT do take that risk whenever they rescue someone. So it would have to be under some special emergency powers that gives the police the power to charge people based on these special circumstances. Not sure I like the sound of that either.
The 5 mile guidance was a mistake.
If taken to the letter it was so ridiculously restrictive that unless it was enforced as law people were always going to break it. Also, if taken to the letter it would have represented a tightening of restrictions rather than a loosening as the lockdown restrictions did not specify a distance. This was always going to be pretty unpalatable. I think they recognised that pretty quickly and NS watered down the 5 mile bit when questioned on it which further muddied the waters.
It also doesn't seem to have had the desired effect which was to stop people going to honeypots and has had negative effects too like giving people a stick to beat others with and making some afraid to travel at all. For example, my wife spoke to a colleague yesterday who was afraid to travel 15 miles to visit her aging mother who she hasn't seen since March.
Anyway, all this is with the benefit of hindsight and I'm still glad I live in Scotland at this point.
I think the charge is fair enough. I would say it's at least arguable that the 2 involved did not take reasonable steps to mitigate the risk to others. Even if the charge is eventually quietly dropped I think it is worth bringing the charge and publicising it to make others think more carefully about following the guidelines..
They’ve been charged with culpable and reckless conduct which is a common law crime in Scotland that you don’t have in E&W. Like a number of Scottish common law crimes it covers a wide range of circumstances. Whether this situation amounts to it remains to be seen, but I’ve not seen it used like this before.
They could've done them with their usual sticking plaster, breach of the peace. If this pair get charged and then the charges are quietly dropped, but the highlighting of the case keeps the retards aff the hills, then it's a price worth paying.
Although I’d like to see the pricks who tore down a fence by a steep drop along the River Coe to use as firewood charged.