Rats, I've just heard Count Binface speak, I had expected him to have a sort of booming Darth Vader-esque voice, not a squeaky Dalek-esque rasp ☹️
Not sure I can vote for him now 🙄
Its more Rick Moranis in spaceballs.
personally I think it would be much better if he was beaten by a genuine, credible anti-sleeze candidate. Someone like Martin Bell in his linen suit. Binface beating him would be comical but I’m not sure it would be as painful as being beaten robustly by someone who was a credible orator that points out the stupidity of Farage and the political company he owns.Count Binface beating Farage would be the single greatest moment in English history and should be commemorated forever more.
Could be quite lucrative. I bet Deform will offer free lifts to the polling station and drop £20 notes on the floor completely accidentally in an effort to boost the count (the o is silent, here)
I’m fully behind Binface! I absolutely love the poster that 13thFloorMonk posted up! I want a print of that!
The memes... I've never been so proud to be British!
personally I think it would be much better if he was beaten by a genuine, credible anti-sleeze candidate.
Time for that would be after the parliamentary investigation if he gets recalled (given his collection of cases and how clear cut they seem its hard to see how it wont go that way).
credible orator that points out the stupidity of Farage and the political company he owns.
Whilst not a household name when you look at his cv I reckon he could do a pretty good job of that if he decides to be semi serious.
Just seen "In it to bin it" as a slogan.
The Farage fans on FB are being gloriously owned to hell and back with their whining about the Establishment going for Farage
personally I think it would be much better if he was beaten by a genuine, credible anti-sleeze candidate.
Time for that would be after the parliamentary investigation if he gets recalled (given his collection of cases and how clear cut they seem its hard to see how it wont go that way).
But he may let someone else stand then with a reform rosette and the other parties probably won’t step aside.
credible orator that points out the stupidity of Farage and the political company he owns.
Whilst not a household name when you look at his cv I reckon he could do a pretty good job of that if he decides to be semi serious.
yeah if he takes his costume off and says let’s take this seriously then I’d be fine with it being him. It probably needs someone with a profile - but if I lived local I would seriously consider standing. Kind of amazing if theres nobody in Clayton or neighbouring wards who despises the man Nigel’s BS enough to take him on politically - or is the UK really at the point where the main threat to the tipped next PM is a satirical faceless character!
🎶It's going chrome,
it's going chrome,
Clacton's goin' chrome 🎶
Whilst not a household name
Okay, I take it back, he does have the tunes!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEIbx7jaVU
Kind of amazing if theres nobody in Clayton or neighbouring wards who despises the man Nigel’s BS enough to take him on politically
Thats missing the point. Farage, at best guess, wants the election now to try and claim legitimacy and so to discredit the investigations before they get started properly.
By not playing along with it the other parties are keeping their powder dry. They are reckoning its pretty good chance the investigations will give ten days suspension and hence a recall petition which they wont have any difficult hitting.
Anyone serious who takes part will help Farage create that veneer of legitimacy. So best to take the piss but hopefully include enough serious hits as well.
If Reform voters really want to stick two fingers up to the establishment then they'll vote for Count Binface.
Most probably can't count to 2. Which is a real loss to guitar playing as many of them have 6 fingers and 2 thumbs per foot.
We saw how “reformers voted for burnham to get starmer out” they should vote binface to get bunham out.
Kind of amazing if theres nobody in Clayton or neighbouring wards who despises the man Nigel’s BS enough to take him on politically
Thats missing the point. Farage, at best guess, wants the election now to try and claim legitimacy and so to discredit the investigations before they get started properly.
By not playing along with it the other parties are keeping their powder dry. They are reckoning its pretty good chance the investigations will give ten days suspension and hence a recall petition which they wont have any difficult hitting.
Anyone serious who takes part will help Farage create that veneer of legitimacy. So best to take the piss but hopefully include enough serious hits as well.
I understand their position, and I think they’ve been remarkably sensible (and it’s nice to see them align and cooperate, especially if what Ed Davy says is true and there wasn’t some sort of conference call to hatch a plan but rather each party instinctively responded the same way).
but let’s assume Farage beats binface, and then the standards commissioner recommends a penalty, and then 10% of Clacton sign a recall petition (that might be harder than you think if they’ve just re-elected him and no crediblg party offered a candidate - even I would be asking what the point is and if it’s a sensible use of public funds in my local area). After all that you might still end up with a Reform MP or even Farage.
I honestly think a good independent candidate could be beat him now. Of course that avoids him some political heat from going through the standards commission and a recall petition. I’m sure nobody wearing a red/blue/yellow/green rosette would win but someone else saying “fight my on your ideas, your personal credibility and your genuine interest in Clacton not on the anti political party rhetoric” would stand a very good chance of upsetting the applecart.
Binface beating him would be comical but I’m not sure it would be as painful as being beaten robustly
Nigel Farage has paper thin skin, he routinely sacks people in his own party if they even get a mention in the press or God forbid start to get more headline space than he does, he cannot stand to have people question him at all. Losing to someone like Binface would be the ultimate humiliation to some like Farage who cannot stand to be laughed at.
I honestly think a good independent candidate could be beat him now.
Have you ever been to Clacton? You are thinking like a normal person. You can call Farage a lot of things but he knows his knuckle draggers voters. Have we learnt nothing from Trump? A hit on Nigel is a hit on them. It's some sort of zombie whisperer magic I don't think normal folk will ever understand.
You could have brought in a Gary Stevenson type of character (or Stevenson himself) who could could have run rings around Farage at an intellectual level but used big words and global concepts the good people of Clacton would not stand a chance of grappling with. Also, as the non Reform voters are a really mixed bag you couldn't do it on policy so it would have to be anti-sleaze which could risk using some very letigiously vulnerable allegations against Farage given the investigations are not complete. Or you could use a Robert Kenyon style local man of the people but batting for the other side. If such a character existed (doubtful) the only way they'd beat Farage in a place like Clacton would be to out Farage Farage with some lovely mega right wing nutjob policies spelled out in very simple words. I'm not convinced that would have moved the debate on particularly.
Binface beating him would be comical but I’m not sure it would be as painful as being beaten robustly
Nigel Farage has paper thin skin, he routinely sacks people in his own party if they even get a mention in the press or God forbid start to get more headline space than he does, he cannot stand to have people question him at all. Losing to someone like Binface would be the ultimate humiliation to some like Farage who cannot stand to be laughed at.
some people get humiliated and crawl back under a rock and are never heard from again. Farage is more like a cockroach - he might scurry off but he will be back after a short while.
I can already imagine his losing speech - “this is the great sense of humour of the British people, if the political elite won’t treat us seriously we will send you comedians” and “this is proof that the country is fed up with traditional politicians”. Etc,
There is no way Farage could spin a loss in this kind of seat to a joke character. It would be an “anyone but Farage” win that would form a precedent that could sink all other Reform MPs if/when they ever face the electorate. Farage would be back to stir and grift, no doubt, probably with a fourth party, but his trajectory towards having enough Reform MPs to be seen as a major player in a possible future government would be scuppered.
There is no way Farage could spin a loss in this kind of seat to a joke character. It would be an “anyone but Farage” win that would form a precedent that could sink all other Reform MPs if/when they ever face the electorate. Farage would be back to stir and grift, no doubt, probably with a fourth party, but his trajectory towards having enough Reform MPs to be seen as a major player in a possible future government would be scuppered.
I'm not sure - partly it would depend how his party reacts but given how they have all defended his antics so far I think you might be underestimating the "see the media/other politicians hates us" angle. Its not like a normal political party where a humiliated leader quietly crawls away whilst the party lick their wounds and try to rebuild. He literally owns the company that Reform is.
He literally owns the company that Reform is.
Which is why if he falls... the party will dissipate. Those Tory MPs that have defected will be on their way out of politics. He's not going to put any work into supporting them if he's no longer in parliament.
Anyway, he'll win this bye-election. And the next one. The voters in this seat aren't about to see him for what he is. Many others across the country might though, as more light is shone on how he represents his dodgy donors rather than them. I hope exposure to Binface (and journalists) at these bye-elections will mean he loses support from anyone not in his core support (who we aren't supposed call out as racist or stupid for some reason).
I'm all for the Count, but I think Farage needs to win so he can get fully investigated and removed.
The main parties not stepping up is good, would be good if no-one did, but like others I'm pretty sure Farage isn't wanting this gig so will be looking to lose against anyone standing.
Farage is more like a cockroach - he might scurry off but he will be back after a short while.
Farage wants more than anything else to be taken seriously by (mostly) the Tories who rejected him quite rightly for being slightly more than "a bit" to the right of Mosley, but also by 'politics' in general. While I do think he wants to be PM it'll be in the same vein as Trump/Johnson I.E for personal gain. All of this is for personal gain. Farage can run rings around any politician he cares to debate - 1. he is actually quite good rhetorically; he's fast on his feet, and can hold his ground, and 2. he can and will say things that no other mainstream politicians could or would say. 3. He has a receptive audience in Clacton who have been badly let down by successive govts of both stripes and are quite rightly holding the line that "anything might be better than the rest of them who we know to be useless"
Farage desperately wants to be able to stand on a platform with other "serious" politicians so he can show off, and say the outrageous things he wants to say. I'd bet any number of Greggs pasties that Farage wouldn't want to be seen anywhere within a hundred meters of a stage with Binface and Fox on it.
Binface at least offers the chance of pricking the Farage balloon, in the way of court-jester. Offers Clacton the ultimate "F*** You" candidate. - and frankly a Binface win should be a gigantic flashing/sounding red klaxon to all political parties that here at least is a constituency that thinks they do such a shit job they're prepared to send a joke candidate to Parliament.
I went there last century and other than being like every other run down english sea side town I don't remember much. I certainly won't have seen the whole constituency, but is there any reason why its actually so different to say the Ayrshire coast or the North Wales Riviera?I honestly think a good independent candidate could be beat him now.
Have you ever been to Clacton?
The reason Farage and Trump seem to do well is as much the mediocrity of the alternative. Yes you are right about the "cult" stuff but Farage got less than half the votes at the GE, and turn our was <60% - almost 3/4 of people in Clacton didn't vote for him. The question is how to mobilise them - are they really more excited about voting for comedy political stunts in a costume or could they get behind a passionate human? especially one that the reform machine hasn't spent the last 20+ years working out how to fight.You are thinking like a normal person. You can call Farage a lot of things but he knows his knuckle draggers voters. Have we learnt nothing from Trump? A hit on Nigel is a hit on them. It's some sort of zombie whisperer magic I don't think normal folk will ever understand.
well I suspect you are doing them a disservice and that attitude is actually what Reform feed off: other political people think you lot are thick so you should stand up to them by voting for us. But you don't win elections on academic intellect - you win on Emotional Intelligence. People who didn't vote in 2024 are not going to be driven to vote for a faceless guy in a bin costume with a funny voice and ridiculous policies. Some of the anti-Farage camp will vote for him, but they'd vote for a credible candidate.You could have brought in a Gary Stevenson type of character (or Stevenson himself) who could could have run rings around Farage at an intellectual level but used big words and global concepts the good people of Clacton would not stand a chance of grappling with.
Actually in a byelection you can - the "big issues" are all irrelevant anyway as there is no way that anyone elected there is going to make any difference to the usual issues. BUT you could talk about things an opposition politician can actually do, and by grounding Farage in reality you can deflate his whole agenda - this byelection is to appoint a constituency mp until the next general election, so what is Farage who rarely visits the constituency going to do.Also, as the non Reform voters are a really mixed bag you couldn't do it on policy
the facts are not in dispute - he received the gifts, he didn't declare them. Farage wants the people to decide - was it OK to get the gifts but that is not the actual question - its was it ok not to declare them? I am sure there are people out there who could repeatedly hammer home that point: nobody is saying he shouldn't be allowed to be wealthy we just expect transparency, not being open about it raises far more suspicions than disclosing it.so it would have to be anti-sleaze which could risk using some very letigiously vulnerable allegations against Farage given the investigations are not complete.
[qupte]Or you could use a Robert Kenyon style local man of the people but batting for the other side. If such a character existed (doubtful) the only way they'd beat Farage in a place like Clacton would be to out Farage Farage with some lovely mega right wing nutjob policies spelled out in very simple words. I'm not convinced that would have moved the debate on particularly. So there's nobody in a constituency of 70k voters (or even any of its neighbours) who is a hard talking local person who isn't hard right wing nut job?
You could have brought in a Gary Stevenson type of character (or Stevenson himself)
Like many folks with a single overarching theory Stephson has never thought critically about his own theory or metaphorically "Taken his idea out onto the veranda and beaten it with a cricket bat" he is actually very very poor at arguing his case when faced by difficult questions he hasn't considered at all.
There's a Ch4 programme featuring him 'debating' with the people he wants to tax, and every single one of them runs rings around him as they outline problems with his grand theory which it looks like he's not actually spent any time thinking about. I've seen vivas defended more robustly. It's cringeworthy
While I do think he wants to be PM it'll be in the same vein as Trump/Johnson I.E for personal gain. All of this is for personal gain.I think you are wrong on all 3! Its not all about monetary gain, its a status/power/ego thing. You are probably right about spurred on by mainstream political party rejection - "I'll show you" mentality. None of them actually want the inconvenience of running a country - they'd all quite like to be King.
yes and thats why a good independent would be a much better alternative. He scores points on political parties at Questiontime, but the people who usually do well against him are the random celebs / unknowns who don't have the baggage. If that person actually knows the constituency better than Farage (not some pastiche cliche of what it is like) he'd be ruined.Farage can run rings around any politician he cares to debate - 1. he is actually quite good rhetorically; he's fast on his feet, and can hold his ground, and 2. he can and will say things that no other mainstream politicians could or would say. 3. He has a receptive audience in Clacton who have been badly let down by successive govts of both stripes and are quite rightly holding the line that "anything might be better than the rest of them who we know to be useless"
OMG I hadn't realised Lawrence Fox has announced he was standing. All the more reason for a sane alternative. Perhaps one of the 35000 ish women in Clacton is not nuts and would enjoy standing up to the boys club and man child.of a stage with Binface and Fox on it.
but you could do the same with any independent, the other possibility is it sends a message that "even when all the other parties cooperated by leaving a clear playing field, nobody could stop Reform".and frankly a Binface win should be a gigantic flashing/sounding red klaxon to all political parties that here at least is a constituency that thinks they do such a shit job they're prepared to send a joke candidate to Parliament.
Farage can run rings around any politician he cares to debate
No he can't. He's thin skinned and prickly and the main reason he has a reputation as a good speaker is soft soaping from the likes of Chris Mason.
If you haven't realised that Farage actually is quite good at getting his point across, perhaps you should actually watch him in action, rather than rely on what you think is the case. I don't disagree with you that he's prickly and thin skinned, but like all populist politicians, he talks a good talk.
but is there any reason why its actually so different to say the Ayrshire coast or the North Wales Riviera?
Yup. It's been mentioned a number of times before but there is a sizable percentage of the local population that moved there in their retirement years from east London. They moved there because it's very white...like what they remember east London being in their youth. Add that to an incumbent population of the low income, poorly educated with a very small world view who never escaped and it's a pretty heady combination. It's a pretty unique place with relatively flat population level achieved by the younger, brighter more educated shipping out as soon as they are able replaced with equal numbers of older whites of dubious world views.
So there's nobody in a constituency of 70k voters (or even any of its neighbours) who is a hard talking local person who isn't hard right wing nut job?
You got the wrong end of the stick. 75% of those that voted last time out voted tory or further right. This isn't Makerfield where labour won in 2024 and a very diverse population. This is a very white town full of a disproportionate number of people who moved there to be in a white town. It's not that you couldn't find a hard talking local, it's that whoever wins would have to appeal to that particular demographic. That won't be some hand wringer bleating on about standards in public life.
If you haven't realised that Farage actually is quite good at getting his point across
He is, but there's a difference between being able to get his point across (which he can) and debating it with robust challenge (which he struggles with). These are different skills.
The people C4 have intreviewed from Clacton all seem fairly challenged with the horrors of the modern world.
and debating it with robust challenge (which he struggles with)
No he doesn't really. he struggles when he's asked the same question that he doesn't want to answer repeatedly by journalists, He can deflect very easily challenges from other politicians who often don't want to open up some areas for discussion as they know Farage's simple 'solutions' to complex problems often make them look like they're obfuscating or deflecting when they say things like "it's complicated" or give long-winded 'party' answers to Farage's 'back of fag packet' answers that people want to be true; or even when their own policies have failed people - like those living in Clacton for example.
I don't think we can lose now. He either loses the by election to a bin (likely given McBoatface perversity) and is somewhat humiliated or he wins and gets more scrutiny and eventually sacked over the £5m + other undeclared grifting.
Only trouble with the first is he can then harangue from the sidelines as he used to and the trouble with the latter is that he gets to feel some kind of legitimacy from the "good people" of Clacton.
I honestly cannot see NF (Nigel Farage / National Front) sticking around to follow through with this contest. His ego is way to big to go any further. Not just the real risk of him losing to a comedy bin, but also the idea of him being pitted against a comedy bin for weeks and the hilarity that will follow. He's been made to look a proper fool. Expect some half baked excuse for him to slink off into the darkness any day now.
You got the wrong end of the stick. 75% of those that voted last time out voted tory or further right. This isn't Makerfield where labour won in 2024 and a very diverse population. This is a very white town full of a disproportionate number of people who moved there to be in a white town. It's not that you couldn't find a hard talking local, it's that whoever wins would have to appeal to that particular demographic. That won't be some hand wringer bleating on about standards in public life.
Well I certainly wasn't talking politics and racism with people when I was there in the 90s but that a very bleak picture you paint. I've never been anywhere in the UK which was as openly racist as you suggest, is this really what its like or just the vox pop people they find wandering the town centre on a Tuesday lunchtime and are willing to talk on camera? I wonder if there's actually 50% of the population who quietly couldn't give a **** - because that's a common picture in other parts of the country and someone who isn't a politician (i.e. a true independent) appeals to those people because its an opportunity to stick two fingers up at real politicians (and I don't believe anyone but the most brainwashed think Nigel is not a politician). I don't believe everyone who votes reform is voting for their policies either - they are vote against the status quo. In Clacton the Status quo is Reform. No you won't get elected bleating on about standards in public life - but you might by asking three key questions (1) does wealthy Nigel really represent you (2) why was he so keen to keep the money quiet (3) what had he done for Clacton and what is he going to do before the next GE? I'm sure if Binface took the costume off and talked sense he'd be perfectly credible alternative. It just deserves some talking about the actual area and its representation/representatives. One person at a by election who is guaranteed to be a back bench opposition mp has no prospect of changing immigration or taxation etc anyway so its pointless having meaningful policies on that.
I just think its a shocking inditement on the state of the country if a comedian dressed as a bin is the best candidate.
I don't think we can lose now. He either loses the by election to a bin (likely given McBoatface perversity) and is somewhat humiliated or he wins and gets more scrutiny and eventually sacked over the £5m + other undeclared grifting.
Only trouble with the first is he can then harangue from the sidelines as he used to and the trouble with the latter is that he gets to feel some kind of legitimacy from the "good people" of Clacton.
You've ignore a serious other possibility. He gets back in, standards commissioner slaps his wrists and either theres so much voter apathy they can't muster the 7000 odd signatures needed to force him back to the polls OR based on his recent win he is bolstered to stand again and gets back in with a smug invincible smile of his mug. Those seem possible outcomes as of course could the standards commissioner saying "technically not wrong" or "wrong but understandable ambiguity to <10 days suspension and no recall option.
I've never been anywhere in the UK which was as openly racist as you suggest, is this really what its like...
Wow, how did you manage that?
I grew up in Sunderland and I've recently worked in and around Rotherham.
If you want to meet openly racist people I could introduce you to hundreds of them. I can start with my own family.
is this really what its like
Put it like this...I have a relative who works for Newham council in some children's social services data analytics role that sort of makes sense to a non geek. Newham, like a lot of councils in London has access to housing association stock outside the borough, some of it in Clacton. Put it like this - unofficial policy is not to use this housing to 'diversify' Clacton - they have no urge to do a King Darius. Also - fun fact - geeky education statisticians like to play with ratios and the EAL to SEN budget ratios is one of them. Clacton is wildly to the right. Like almost off the scale. This is partly because the SEN needs are so profound but also because not too many families with EAL needs elect to make their roots in Clacton. For some unfathomable reason.
I just think its a shocking inditement on the state of the country if a comedian dressed as a bin is the best candidate.
I don't think anyone thinks he is the best candidate, I think most people think that he's the best response to what is at the same time a political stunt (that has backfired) , more seriously; an attempt to silence an investigation and to with their offer to pay for it, and attempt to literally buy a parliamentary seat, a practice I thought we'd got rid of in 1832.
I've met openly racist people. I've just never met a whole constituency worth of people who apparently moved there because it was more white as Convert suggested. Listen to what he's saying - essentially people in Clacton are too thick to leave or moved there because they like to be surrounded with thick white people. My point is I doubt anyone in Clacton is saying that out loud.I've never been anywhere in the UK which was as openly racist as you suggest, is this really what its like...
Wow, how did you manage that?
I grew up in Sunderland and I've recently worked in and around Rotherham.
If you want to meet openly racist people I could introduce you to hundreds of them. I can start with my own family.
Openly racist? My neighbour works for the FCA, respectable job. Any problems - dentist, doctor, roads - he claims are due to Illegals. We have Sikhs next door, a really lovely family. He points vaguely to their house and calls the area the ghetto. Britain is allegedly broken due to boat people. He has never been to various places like Scotland, Wales etc. because the people are all scum. He loves Trump and Farage. We don't get on at all for some odd reason that he can never fathom out, even though I tell him why.
He is about the most ignorant, ill educated person I know. They walk amongst us. Thing is he is married to an actual real life immigrant who doesn't work. Go figure.
I think I probably need to bow out now or I'll be forced to go all Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. 🙂
I grew up near-ish Clacton and know the place, and various other coastal Essex towns.
Yes, it's generally very white, yes it's generally pretty right-wing and it was pretty clear Farage would win there last time. It's generally pretty poor and someone who offers hope, or at least solid blame, unites a group.
But at the same time it's a community. A LOT of people are really pissed off with Farage because he's done nothing for Clacton as their MP - he's barely even been there, or in the Houses of Parliament. Whatever ideological saviour-ship he was offering last time has evaporated a fair bit because the buses are still slow, there aren't enough GP appointments, the high street's still full of closed (or vape) shops, the potholes are as bad as ever, and a good number of the people who thought that they were giving the "establishment" a black eye have realised he's just the same as all the rest, out for himself.
They're a community who love a laugh, some silliness, and to poke fun at pomposity. And that's why all the major parties standing back and letting the decision be between posturing pomposity / fake outrage, or a funny joke, is quite a genius move. Nigel wins, the investigation into his finances continues and he flounders some more; Nigel loses, it's because "the people" have chosen a joke candidate over him.
Only ever been to Clacton once - wife booked us a week in Jaywick. Bless her. But it wasn't that bad. Bit nuts, but the people were fine. But then I am from Wolverhampton.
Openly racist? My neighbour works for the FCA, respectable job. Any problems - dentist, doctor, roads - he claims are due to Illegals. We have Sikhs next door, a really lovely family. He points vaguely to their house and calls the area the ghetto. Britain is allegedly broken due to boat people. He has never been to various places like Scotland, Wales etc. because the people are all scum. He loves Trump and Farage. We don't get on at all for some odd reason that he can never fathom out, even though I tell him why.
He is about the most ignorant, ill educated person I know. They walk amongst us. Thing is he is married to an actual real life immigrant who doesn't work. Go figure.
But are 46% of your neighbourhood openly racist? Or are "we" just as guilty of defining the reasons why people vote reform down to one very simple thing just like "they" distill everything back to "illegals". Frankly the mainstream political parties mistake has been to assume that the things the party shouts about are the reasons people vote for them. You'd have thought they'd have learned in 2016 that people don't necessarily vote what they actually want - the vote against what they don't want.
