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It’s nearly 1am, in July, and there’s idiots letting off fireworks! Has something exciting happened that I’m totally unaware of? TBH, I never watch telly or listen to the radio on Saturdays, so any significance has completely passed me by. 🤷🏼♂️
Ah, right, I had a feeling it might be footy related, but I haven’t been paying any attention to it at all, more interested in the tennis!🎾
My dog, who also doesn't follow football, was scared sh*tless
I have a feeling people would have let them off anyway regardless of the result
The only reason I knew England had beaten Norway in last night’s match, was being woken late by the very loud singing of “it’s coming home”, also fire works. Some fireworks being let off quite early in the evening just before the game.
Tennis people are far too posh* for fireworks. I expect they'll lay on a drone show if anyone British actually ever wins again.
(* and unpleasantly entitled, as it turns out. My daughter works in a food&drink retailers in Guildford but it's the same area as Wimbledon, so they send staff over to the Wimbledon store to help with the extra footfall. And yes, it's 35 degrees outside and Wimbledon fortnight, the queue is out of the door, everyone wants a frappe or blended juice that takes time to make rather than a coffee, and consequently there is a bit of a wait. Stop being so ****ing nasty to the 20 and 21 years olds that are sweating their arses off for you predominantly white middle class middle age bunch of Karen bitches. If catching THAT train is so important you should either have left your Pimms and Strawberries earlier, or go without)
My dog, who also doesn't follow football, was scared sh*tless
I have a feeling people would have let them off anyway regardless of the result
The fireworks over my way weren't enough to wake me, they were pretty mild which was surprising, the youths over this way would make the Royal Artillery jealous with their usual rate of fire.
it was the dogs snoot in my face and hot breath that woke me.
She was unimpressed and did lots of sighing until she settled. 🤣
it was the dogs snoot in my face and hot breath that woke me.
It was my dog sitting on my head that woke me
it was the dogs snoot in my face and hot breath that woke me.
It was my dog sitting on my head that woke me
🤣
Move to scotland.
One less opportunity for fireworks for the national team.
My dog, who also doesn't follow football, was scared sh*tless
Saw a short vid the other day of a dog, i think it was in the US. Anyway, the dog was deaf, and stood in the street staring up at the sky as the fireworks went off. Certainly seemed to be enjoying the show.
Our dog's not deaf - OK, may be selectively at times, but unless she has some kind of ESP she can hear the fridge door from anywhere in the house.
And she loves the fireworks, they have a mid size display at the school field over the road from us and she sits in the window watching with us with the quarterlight open so we can hear the bangs and whistles and she doesn't flinch. We've done nothing to teach this, it's weird how some are terrified and some are "send another big purple one up!"
My dog, who also doesn't follow football, was scared sh*tless
Saw a short vid the other day of a dog, i think it was in the US. Anyway, the dog was deaf, and stood in the street staring up at the sky as the fireworks went off. Certainly seemed to be enjoying the show.
My dog watches fireworks they don't phase her in the slightest. It isn't a universal thing.
And she can hear a crisp fall through the air in another room and be there to catch it as it lands.
People sell fireworks.
Other people buy fireworks.
Other people still have animals they haven't trained to ignore noises.
Film at 11.
More seriously,
I love fireworks but I would welcome a blanket ban on the sale of the things to the great unwashed. There's far too many bellends out there and whilst there are noise abatement laws of course, there isn't a copper in the country who is likely to be knocking on your door at 4am asking you to keep it down a bit. I see no reason - ok, I see one reason - why fireworks sales shouldn't be restricted to people who hold explosives licences.
Tennis people are far too posh* for fireworks. I expect they'll lay on a drone show if anyone British actually ever wins again.
(* and unpleasantly entitled, as it turns out. My daughter works in a food&drink retailers in Guildford but it's the same area as Wimbledon, so they send staff over to the Wimbledon store to help with the extra footfall. And yes, it's 35 degrees outside and Wimbledon fortnight, the queue is out of the door, everyone wants a frappe or blended juice that takes time to make rather than a coffee, and consequently there is a bit of a wait. Stop being so ****ing nasty to the 20 and 21 years olds that are sweating their arses off for you predominantly white middle class middle age bunch of Karen bitches. If catching THAT train is so important you should either have left your Pimms and Strawberries earlier, or go without)
Conversely, I was working at Wimbledon for a couple of days last week and every single person I spoke to or dealt with was pleasant, cheery and in good spirits despite the heat and several of the people I spoke to have been in the queues and having slept in tents for the previous night or two.
It was a genuinely enjoyable experience being with these people!
What were you doing there out of interest?
Theory - and of course I've over generalised on the basis of a few interactions, but don't spoil a good rant.
The Wimbledon queue is part of the experience, they're among their own people doing a posh Glasto experience sort of thing, all holding each other's spot in the queues and singing along to Summer Holiday to make the time pass. And behaving uncouthly while in the grounds - God Forbid!
By the time they get to my daughter's store on their way back to the station, they're overhot, tired (and in some cases emotional), back in the real world dealing with 'normal' shop people again, and of course not everyone was horrible, but there were a higher than usual number compared to a typical late afternoon / early evening shift. And those that were nasty tended to fit a particular type. Several instances over the period of a shift.
But that's no surprise, many hospitality workers have to regularly deal with aggressive customers and I'd suggest your 'everyone was lovely' experience is the exception.
Move to scotland.
One less opportunity for fireworks for the national team.
I reckon we might have had some going off here last night if Norway had won.. 😁
One of the things we've enjoyed about moving house is the family behind the old house who used every birthday as an excuse for majority fireworks. 5x a year, always around 11-12pm at night, and somehow they seemed to have a way into NATO stockpiles rather than Chinese pops and bangs...No matter how many neighbours suggested to them it was anti-social, particularly the timing, they continued.
Other people still have animals they haven't trained to ignore noises.
I don’t know that you‘re suggesting here.
The only noise my dog ignores is me talking.
Open a packet of cheese he moves at warp speed.
Unfortunately scared shitless of firework and any loud bangs. I now have a hatred of the Golf R, Audi S3 and Focus ST crowd with their pop and bang tunes.
The area around Dovestones reservoir is on fire. Can see the smoke from 15 miles away. Why, some kids set fireworks off yesterday evening as homage to a teenager who drowned there the day before.
They even filmed it, and you can see the moorland go up in flames. Hope they get caught.
I don’t know that you‘re suggesting here.
I suspect you do, but in any case:
Blaming everyone else for their precious furbaby's behaviour is a common trait amongst a subset of dog owners. They're probably a minority amongst dog owners in general, but their Catastrophic Responsibility Displacement is plenty visible. Oh, he's just being friendly. Oh, it's a public place. Oh, he's never done that before.
I saw a post just yesterday, was it on here or other social media? I don't remember. "My dog is well trained, it was off the leash in a park and it ran up to another dog, it was only saying hello and having a sniff but then [something happened]... " but then it's not well trained then, is it. It's running up to other dogs and you think that's perfectly acceptable, then you're getting shirty at someone else and hitting the Internet in righteous indignation when it suddenly isn't ok.
Dogs being scared of noises is learned behaviour. Shit goes bang all the time, an inability to cope with the world is a training issue. (And for the dog too.)
Right, so you think all dogs can be trained not to be scared of fireworks? How to you go about that? How about cats, other pets, farm animals…?
We need responsible and reasonable firework use, we can’t train animals to ignore middle of the night random explosions. It’s tighter controls on sale and use that’s needed, not training animals to deal with irresponsible firework use.
To me, everything else you’ve written there about responsible dog ownership isn’t relevant to the fireworks situation at all (and it’s all stuff I agree with).
I know well trained gun dogs that freak out when the fireworks start.
Empty vessels make slot of noise.
Right, so you think all dogs can be trained not to be scared of fireworks? How to you go about that?
I think you can not train them to be scared in the first place, yes.
How you might go about that training is, well, this is pretty much my point - if an owner doesn't know how then perhaps they should seek to learn rather than blaming society? Your animal, your responsibility, whether that's a dog or a goldfish. When presented with a car for the first time, most people would sign up for driving lessons rather than expect everyone else to get out of their way.
How do these dogs know to be scared? It's not innate behaviour in most cases unless it's linked to previous trauma. In the majority of cases dogs being scared of noises is learned behaviour. What do you do when a dog is scared, make a big fuss in order to reassure it?
How about cats, other pets, farm animals…?
I have three cats none of whom give the slightest of damns about fireworks. Whilst my first home was a dairy farm I was quite young when we left so it would be difficult for me to comment further on the mental welfare of future bacon. What I wouldn't be doing though is hitting the Internet to blame bread rolls for porcine trauma.
We need responsible and reasonable firework use, we can’t train animals to ignore middle of the night random explosions. It’s tighter controls on sale and use that’s needed, not training animals to deal with irresponsible firework use.
I agree 100% with your first point and disagree 100% with your second. Truth is, we need both of those things.
Of course you can - and should - train animals that random bangs are nothing to worry about. What happens when you're out and about and a car backfires, or a tile falls off a roof and crashes to the floor, or a child jumps on a crisp packet, or a police horse has a loud stomp, or any one of a thousand other random noises happen randomly at random? This is wholly a Dog Owner problem, it's not the world failing to bend to accommodate a poorly trained pooch.
Stop selling munitions to arseholes, and stop projecting pet issues onto everyone else.
What I thought was happening was that a load of piished up low achieving ill-educated morons were trying to set fire to the nearby tinder-dry fields and moorlands without the usual inconvenience of them having to drive out and light a disposable BBQ to get the landscape on fire.
Right, so you think all dogs can be trained not to be scared of fireworks? How to you go about that?
In my case I remained calm when they went off, none of my dogs have been afraid and sit watching them. Except the Labrador who thought she was shooting so would look for the game after the bang.
However, setting them off in the early hours just because England won a round of football is daft and inconsiderate.
I think you can not train them to be scared in the first place, yes.
I foster guide dogs, and I can report that they still sometimes get scared by fireworks.
The area around Dovestones reservoir is on fire. Can see the smoke from 15 miles away. Why, some kids set fireworks off yesterday evening as homage to a teenager who drowned there the day before.
They even filmed it, and you can see the moorland go up in flames. Hope they get caught.
Yes, I live in South Manchester and my house now smells like a bonfire. Top work to whoever is responsible for that. On the plus side, was an incredible sunset last night.
Of course you can - and should - train animals that random bangs are nothing to worry about. What happens when you're out and about and a car backfires, or a tile falls off a roof and crashes to the floor, or a child jumps on a crisp packet, or a police horse has a loud stomp, or any one of a thousand other random noises happen randomly at random? This is wholly a Dog Owner problem, it's not the world failing to bend to accommodate a poorly trained pooch.
None of those sounds are the same as fireworks. And few of them happen in the middle of the night for a sustained period of time.
You can train a dog to be calm around horses, cars, guns, children... and that won't necessarily help with fireworks.
I really, really hope the idiots that set Dovestones on fire with their fireworks get arrested and charged. There is plenty of evidence as to who the perpetrators are. They have filmed themselves laughing, throwing fireworks (some from a moving car in daylight), running off when the tinder dry moorland grass catches fire.
Witnesses say they were smoking weed and sniffing Balloon canisters, that is not the behaviour of grieving teenagers.
As others have said above, the pollution is blanketing Manchester and other nearby small urban areas.
I foster guide dogs, and I can report that they still sometimes get scared by fireworks.
Of course. Some animals have past trauma and that's going to make training more challenging.
You can train a dog to be calm around horses, cars, guns, children... and that won't necessarily help with fireworks.
What's the difference? Genuine question, what makes fireworks 'special' here?
Is it that you just don't like them? That may go some way towards explaining a dog's negative reaction if so, no?
What's the difference?
The sound can go on for ages... the mix of sounds is random and piercing for a dog... it is not just "bangs"... it's in the middle of the night.
Is it that you just don't like them?
I love proper firework displays. I increasingly think that the idea that anyone can set off fireworks on any date at any time has had its day and far more controls on them is required. My comments are just based on knowing many unnervous very well trained dogs (including gun dogs that don't give a damn about "bangs" more generally) that can't cope with the noise of fireworks. The idea that they can all be trained out of that is one I've not heard anyone claim before. I'm sure many can be, maybe even most... but they'll always be some dogs that can't... and having no idea when/why fireworks are coming is a problem for them and their owners.
Dogs being scared of noises is learned behaviour. Shit goes bang all the time, an inability to cope with the world is a training issue. (And for the dog too.)
Ok, Cougar, you can be strongly opinionated on here at times and I can often take it with a pinch of salt. But this is a whole new level.
My dog has issues with loud bangs in the sky, these are incredibly hard to train out of her. How the flip do you suggest I train her to something without exposing her to it? I sure as hell won't be taking to her an organised event for them, videos and soundtracks do not come with the intense air-compression of a real explosion. People set them off at all times around fireworks night, so it's hard to know when it's safe to walk (if at all), having a dog that likes to keep it's own area clean means she won't go to the toilet at home, so a walk is required. For context we were also out walking one day when a jet went super sonic nearby, she looked at me surprised but not fearful.
Clearly, you are an arm chair expert at dog training, so please, explain to me how I do better.
And for reference, she is a rescue/former street dog, she doesn't go off-lead, she is well behaved, but she can turn to defensive mode at the drop of a hat so she's walked with a halti to allow us to easily prevent her from doing anything we don't want her to. She's a lovely dog and I've worked harder on her than I have almost anything else in my life, oh, and I've always loed fireworks so she's not getting the fear from me or my wife.
The sound can go on for ages... the mix of sounds is random and piercing for a dog... it is not just "bangs"... it's in the middle of the night.
Is that not easier to train for than one-off bangs? It's predictable.
Do dogs give the slightest of shits about darkness? Their low-light vision is better than ours.
I love proper firework displays. I increasingly think that the idea that anyone can set off fireworks on any date at any time has had its day and far more controls on them is required.
I agree with you absolutely here.
Clearly, you are an arm chair expert at dog training, so please, explain to me how I do better.
What have you done to address this problem? Have you spoken with a professional dog trainer about your dog's issues? Does it not sound weird to you that your dog is nervous of something which is seemingly a commonplace occurrence, yet doesn't blink when a jet aircraft screams past out of the blue? Neither of us know how to fix this so... pay someone who does? 🤷♂️
You "sure as hell won't be taking to her an organised event for them" - well, why not? Exposure therapy is a thing with people, you suggest that you aren't making it an issue but you plainly are. Might be a terrible idea, I don't know, but maybe the dog seeing people casually enjoying a fireworks display would have a positive effect?
I'm not an expert at all. I love dogs but I don't have one for exactly this reason, I don't speak Dog and I don't want the responsibility of learning. You sound like a responsible owner and fair play to you. But I am so very tired of some dog owners making their pets everyone else's problem to accommodate. Your dog not liking bangs is what you signed up to deal with when you chose to have a dog. An owner puffing out their chest and demanding that the rest of the world doesn't go bang occasionally because they have a nervy dog is out order because that's not how the world works I'm afraid.
I’m not a fan of fireworks (even organised ones having seen someone maimed at an organised show as a child in the 1980s).
I’m particularly not a fan of the public being able to walk into a supermarket/cornershop and buy fireworks - having grown up in a world where putting a lit firework through someone’s letterbox would be “funny”
BUT I wouldn’t necessarily think it’s reasonable to stop the use of fireworks under moderately controlled circumstance (and that would include after a big sporting event in the early hours of the morning), just because some people in society have decided to keep a pet which gets anxious at the noise.
I say that as someone who quite likes nice dogs but has never seen the need to own one. There’s just as much irresponsible dog ownership as there is irresponsible fireworks use and I assume most dog owners would be outraged if ordinary members of the public were precluded from keeping dogs because some owners are idiots.
There’s just as much irresponsible dog ownership as there is irresponsible fireworks use and I assume most dog owners would be outraged if ordinary members of the public were precluded from keeping dogs because some owners are idiots.
I'd suggest controls, not a ban... "you want to buy fireworks... state when and where they will be used... using them outside that agreement is against the law". If you want some balance... "you want to buy/adopt a dog... state breed (or describe it) and where its main home will be... you won't be approved if in the past you have harmed dogs or caused harm to others with a dog". You can put some control into the situation to deal with "idiots" without banning or precluding everyone else.
You definitely hit my buttons earlier, my reply was typed with anger and I know better than that!
So, yes, have paid a behaviourist, but there were other priorities ahead of fireworks, she used to be reactive to people in camouflage/fatigues, lots of men, bikes, buses, many things would set her off.
She's now (through positive rewards) better with most of these things, however, if she sees someone with a cigarette, she's crossing the road/running away. She can't be in the same house as my mother-in-law (I swear this wasn't trained into her), my Mum on the other hand can do whatever and she's fine with it. She's vastly better than she was with new dogs, although she still has some she really doesn't like and she doesn't hide it. She also cost me a small fortune at the vets through various issues. Having had no input to her first 6 months some things are set in her head that are harder to retrain.
I do think people need to take responsibility for their dogs behaviour so I get what you are saying, my favourite line from those that don't is "it's ok, they're friendly", so I reply with "mine's not". Really, there's only been one dog daft enough to come at her barking and not back off, she didn't hurt it, but it knew not to do it again.
As a total side note; as soon as this song plays, she barks, she's generally quiet the rest of the time, I should really do some training on this though.
Fireworks, I personally like as large shows, so I think they are better as big displays, I have no idea why the home size ones exist, go big or go home. I'll keep working on calming her and helping her see they aren't a threat each time I can too as I would rather she didn't have fear responses to things.
Have you spoken with a professional dog trainer about your dog's issues?
Guide dog trainers issue guidance for bonfire night, acknowledging that the dogs may react to fireworks. What you seem to think is simple evades these professionals.
There’s just as much irresponsible dog ownership as there is irresponsible fireworks use and I assume most dog owners would be outraged if ordinary members of the public were precluded from keeping dogs because some owners are idiots.
I'd suggest controls, not a ban... "you want to buy fireworks... state when and where they will be used... using them outside that agreement is against the law". If you want some balance... "you want to buy/adopt a dog... state breed (or describe it) and where its main home will be... you won't be approved if in the past you have harmed dogs or caused harm to others with a dog". You can put some control into the situation to deal with "idiots" without banning or precluding everyone else.
in principle I don’t object to either restriction but I’m not sure you’ve got total equivalence there! On one hand you are very prescriptive about about exact conditions of use and on the other so long as you’ve never been caught being harmful (you can already be banned from keeping animals). To make them comparable you would probably need to specify exactly where you will keep the dog and apply to move house or take it on holiday and keeping the dog outside those arrangements would be against the law.
To be clear I’d also be fine if setting fireworks off on public land was illegal and if you needed permission from any landowner whose property a firework could reasonably land in. But then I’d be happy if (with the exception of assistance dogs) the same rules applied to walking dogs!
As far as I know the night in question is not covered below,.so yea they were breaking the law.
"You must not set off fireworks between 11pm and 7am, except for:
Bonfire Night, when the cut off is midnight
New Year’s Eve, Diwali and Chinese New Year, when the cut off is 1am"
https://www.gov.uk/fireworks-the-law
Oh and thinking you can train a scared dog to not be frightened is plain daft. It may work with a human who wants and understands to overcome a fear. But dogs are stupid and some have a natural fear and some have had that fear beaten into them. One of my rescue dogs can only play with frisbees not balls because the throwing action causes her to cower probably due to being beaten.
But then I’d be happy if (with the exception of assistance dogs) the same rules applied to walking dogs!
Dog owners assembling with pitchforks as we speak! 🙂
