Anyone ridden the Mojo Nicolai yet?

Could I ask what rims you are using? There's weight to be saved there if they were replaced with carbon ones.

They look like Derby rims and they are carbon.

Evil looking bike.

I'm sure they're not and the design of the frame accounts for it, but the cranks look like they're way too far back. If they've designed the frame to account for that then there must have been loads of buggering about with seat tube angles and shock mounts and chainstays and stuff?

CP famously doesn't like clutched dérailleurs as they interfere with the suspension action.Shirley the massive belt tensioner (which going by the belt drive bikes I've dealt with will be under considerable tension) is much worserer .It's hard to work out chain growth with horst link bikes (runs off to 'linkage') ,the pivot/chainring position looks good but I assume there will be some built in to assist the anti squat.

but the cranks look like they're way too far back.

That was my first thought, looks like the pedals are behind the rider canting you forward into an almost time-trial roadie position!?....i love the original 27.5 Geometron but this one just looks weird and looks like I'd end up in a precarious position when descending.
All this is said having never ridden one of course so disregard at your pleasure.

Pedal/crank position is exactly the same as on the std Geometron longer/M at 590mm centre of crank to centre of top of headtube. Centre of crank to centre of bar end is 915mm. Call the latter the 'range'
Std SA is 77.7deg. The std Geometron has a large ST to crank offset too.
Pedalling position was something I worried about before riding it and a reason my earlier custom designs only went as far as 75° or 75.5° seat angle I was worried it would feel wrong to pedal. I'm happy to report after six months or so of use, But I knew as soon as I rode it, that my fears were unfounded. In fact it has relieved pressure on my (previously rubbish and tight) hamstrings, stimulated better quad development and lead to me no longer getting lower back pain on tough rides.

Yes rims are Derby Carbon 40mm HD. So 465g give or take, Sapim CX-Ray's, 32.
Belt is under very little tension, on a par with clutch less derailleur I'd say. One finger push to release belt off the rear sprocket which is held in by a 'snubber at the rear and a central track down the middle of the sprockets.
Geo is the same as the std bike on this one as I've added a -1deg angleset to make it the same

I s'pose there is a lot more 'wrap' on the front.Even with centre track and a snubber the gates bikes I've built all slipped like a bugger if not tensioned enough.It was a few years ago though.I wonder if they've changed the design a bit.
Ta

Chainline

Comes in at a hair under 15.4kg/33.8lb

Ooff! That'll be a nice work out going up hill then...... 😉

Max torque, yep, probably an extra 30kcals on a typical 2hr trail ride. I'l have an extra hobnob, carry 0.5l less water and only one spare tube

Looks great! Is everyone running 35mm or shorter stems on these?

Chiefgrooveguru, yes, I run a 30mm in my std bike but wider bars and short offset forks. The GPI had 35m and std offset forks, 780mm bar.

Most people running a 35mm stem. Don't recommend any longer Unless a particular reason/desire ultimately it's personal preference though.

I find this very interesting what JP (who has a lot of experience) has to say and how Jack responds too.
A different way of getting across some aspects I have been trying to convey before a demo on the Geometron or when answering questions after (sometimes natural) conclusions drawn based on potential rider's experiences when seeing headline or out of context angles. The Geometron is most definitely a package, not just a frame. It allows you to be more dynamic in the bike not less you can feel the suspension working with you and thus the trail, you get feedback from the frame and suspension, but that's very different to just feeling the trail....can't wait to see it on the WC DH circuit.

http://www.alinecoaching.co.uk/news/jack-reading-on-nicolai-2016

Can anyone tell me if the rear travel is adjustable on the geometron? There look to be chips and the spec sheet says High/low position but travel is just listed as 155mm. I'm currently running 150mm pikes that i'm happy with and it would save a good chunk of cash if i could keep them.

Also the website states "We also tailored the anti-squat to be just enough when you are in the gears used for technical climbs. In this way, the anti-squat falls away reducing the feeling of 'hang-up' on the bump edge as you shift into higher gears. This involved us specifying a higher main pivot in the first instance and allows a range of 30T, 32T or 34T chainrings and an individual ride height depending on your riding focus" What are the implications of running a 24/38T double crank?

The travel can sort of be adjusted, in that you can ask mojo to reduce or increase the stroke I believe. There's no chip on mine.
Regarding the gearing, worth checking with mojo or chainline but I would anticipate that you would have more anti-squat in the smaller ring and less in the bigger ring. Chris at mojo was running something like a 36 ring to have minimal anti squat. If you go for the full demo option you could probably test out how it feels.

You feel like your arms have had a workout just watching the video clip in that link Chainline posted.

Also the website states "We also tailored the anti-squat to be just enough when you are in the gears used for technical climbs. In this way, the anti-squat falls away reducing the feeling of 'hang-up' on the bump edge as you shift into higher gears. This involved us specifying a higher main pivot in the first instance and allows a range of 30T, 32T or 34T chainrings and an individual ride height depending on your riding focus" What are the implications of running a 24/38T double crank?

If you run a double then it'll have minimal anti-squat (anti-squat makes a bike pedal efficiently) in the 38 but very little kickback. When in the 24 it'll stand up tall and possibly jack a bit when pedalling and won't absorb the bumps too well when climbing. Personally I wouldn't run a double on it - it's too carefully optimised around 32-36 chain rings.

Looks pretty sick, I like.

Loving this thread, I'd already pretty much decided on a Liteville-601 as my next bike but these Geometron's look fascinating and have thrown a spanner in the works....will the DH-team be running 'short' travel rear suspension like the bikes on this thread or going for the usual 200mm+?

Is the idea of Jack Reading going for stiffer suspension based on the theory that the geometry of said bike can do the job meaning less reliance on compliant suspension?....or is he simply aping Aaron Gwin's setup in the hope something will stick and it'll work for him?...honest answer please!

I think the team are planning to develope a Geometron inspired DH bike, not specifically run Geometrons DH and most top DH riders run really stiff suspension don't they?

Not much time at the mo, I'll answer later. The DH team will run Geometrons. tweaked mainly in CS length since the production bike was centred around the best compromise for all round use.

The suspension will obviously be to each riders taste, tuned by Mojo.

The Geo is the same as the production bike to my knowledge.

Riklegge, unless you have a special, you will have a chip or trail key next to the the rear mount of the shock and oval insert. IT allows you to increase or decrease the BB height and HA by approx 6mm/0.5deg

You can change the travel as described by using modified shocks. The DH team will use 180-190 rear travel.

The set up will be different to other DH bikes I think because the linkage is progressive not linear as most DH linkages are.

The Geometron wont work so well with a double its true. The bigger the front ring the better the anti squat or the further down the block the anti squat is present. Big grunty pedallers are using a bigger front ring.

I'm running 32 on mine and its got strong antisquat in 1, 2, 3 and a magic 4, then it tails off.

THE GPI has less anti squat but seems to remain well controlled after the test at the weekend. Muddy as, no slipping, it was rick solid and silent. Nice in fact. Rear suspension responsivness is incredible with such a light rear wheel.

Lots of interest in the bike and quite a few did the pick up test, went for a ride on it, came back surprised and took contact details, all good. Most were surprised how light it felt.

Another video on Jacks facebook page.

Cheers, with 180-190mm of rear travel (doesn't the new Intense have something like 240mm!?) they'll be responsive that's for sure!
Interesting stuff, all sports need free thinkers/mavericks like Chris Porter, some of his ideas haven't caught on but I think this one will....as others on this thread have said it's got me eyeing up slacksets for my own bike so it's not just potential Geometron owners that have had their interest piqued by the numbers being offered by Nicolai/Mojo.

My Trance runs the SX version numbers of 160mm/140mm front/rear and has a head angle of 66 degrees, intrigued as to what taking it out to 64 degrees would do....little winter project I reckon!

Looking at the leverage curves, more downhill bikes nowadays are progressive than are linear. Most are around 8" / 203mm rear travel, a few have significantly more. The main difference with the Geometron is the vastly longer reach. Will the Geometron DH bikes be running dual crown 200mm forks?

The Geometron wont work so well with a double its true. The bigger the front ring the better the anti squat or the further down the block the anti squat is present. Big grunty pedallers are using a bigger front ring.

Other way around - you always get more anti-squat with a smaller chain ring.

chiefgrooveguru - Member

Other way around - you always get more anti-squat with a smaller chain ring.

He said better, rather than more.

Geometron owners:

What size are you riding Long/Longer/Longest/Custom?

How tall are you?

6 foot 2 longest

Northwind, Chiefgrooveguru is right. Serves me right for rushing this morning and trying to do two things at once; work (nothing at all to do with bikes) and answer questions on the way out the door..I have to be thinking straight to do kinematics, or fluid dynamics...but that's work!

32-36t is the optimum chainring range for the GeoMetron bike, 32 providing the most anti-squat in the lower gears, 36t the least. You can feel it drop off significantly as you move down the block/up the gears (smaller teeth).

The GPI doesn't have as much anti squat as the GeoMetron. it runs a 39t front sprocket and 34t rear.

With the new cassettes (I have a goatlink on my xtr rear mech) you can run up to 45t low gear on the rear cassette, thats pretty damn low gearing.

Chiefgrooveguru, I was led to believe most current DH rigs weren't designed to be progressive in a way that is optimised to work with an air shock , they were more linear. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I also haven't checked.

The standard Ion 16 or 20 linkages are progressive but somewhat more linear than a Geometron linkage if Chris doesn't speak to me with forked tongue. Its definitely what my backside tells me when riding it compared to my previous std Ion's. I wouldn't go so far as to say baggy but the Ion is less controlled n the early and mid stroke positions, particularly around the sag point, would be a fair statement.

I have requested Antonio of linkage blogspot do an analysis of the Geometron and GPI, I'd be interested to see it. I run a Mac so don't have it.

The DH bike will have the CS/SS optimised to use the longer shocks and allow more travel. Yes they are already running Fox 40's currently at 180mm as Chris has done with the option of adjustable offset clamps.
I don't know if they will run the full 200mm up front or even go that far at the rear.

Building specific CS/SS allows the geometry of the current bike to be preserved.

GPI at the weekend..

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Blimey that's slacker than a slack thing! 😯

Won't the super slack head angle effectively shorten the reach and therefore negate the longer TT to a certain extent?

Duir- I'm 5'6" and ride the long.

Geometron on Cannock Chase Donkey Trail 😆

Whilst I don't sell any, as mentioned, I've talked and ridden with a fair few owners and generally speaking below 5'8" I'd recommend Long/S 620 ETT, 485mm reach, 5'9" to 6" maybe 6"1" M/longest 640 ETT, 508mm reach I think, maybe 6ft, deffo 6'1" and above 660mm ETT, 525mm reach
Mojo would start with Longest at 6ft, my opinion is definitely have a proper test ride on longer(M) and longest(L) at that size to see what works best.

As ever some caveats in that, the Geometron sits low at the front with that slack Ha and the ETT can be deceiving a little, I'd say it could feel a bit longer, quite a lot of surprise when sitting for the first time how low the front is with a 180mm fork. Most people I have ridden with settle on 20-30m of spacers with a 20mm bar rise again depending on riding style, more inherently aggressive riders have got away with more spacers.

As I became more used to the front and more and more trusting I went from slammed on ride number 1 to 15-20mm under now which is much more comfortable for pedalling.

All above goes out the window with long legs/short arms/body or vice versa or some other combo.
Custom top tube heights/seat tube heights are possible.
One of the guys who bought a 29er, from Switzerland I think, was sub 6ft but wanted another 20mm on the longest after a test day

So interested in the Geometron it will happen thought it would be last year but no joy so hopefully this one... Then I saw the 29er looks wise it's better IMHO but the proof will be in the riding....
Out of curiosity how much notice would be needed for the £200 test ride option.?

Well having just read this entire thread I can safely say I'm sold on it 100%.... The only question that remains is 650b or 29er if they ride the same then it's the 29er..but I would definitely go for the one which I feel is better, which is a no brainer really regardless of wheel size.... Now about that demo ride... How do I go about it.? I'll go for the freebie demo first as you never know...

squid you can either email me ( in profile ) to arrange something depending on where you are based, how far you want to travel, whether you want to ride somewhere you know and what size you are, or call Mojo and ask for Paul Shepperd to arrange a local to them demo ride

if you want to ride the 29er as well as the 27.5 then its probably best to do that near Mojo. Don't forget the 29er is only in the LONGEST size unless you go for a custom frame (additional cost).

I haven't ridden both. I've had enough feedback from those that have, to know that they don't ride the same.

Some more stuff on the DH version here

I've been enjoying the GPI version lately running with a 61deg HA as opposed to the 62deg of the std GeoMetron. There are some advantages I feel and so far no real disadvantages other than the need to firm up the rear damping a little to aid weight distribution and the fact you need to weight the front a little more to get the best out of it. Climbing is unaffected. It has a little more 'flop' effect, as you'd expect, on the flat at über low speed but once at walking pace that disappears and it doesn't wander uphill (SA is slightly steeper), that same effect aids turn in under braking whilst allowing you to keep the front loaded.

Switching back to the standard bike it's amazing how neutral it feels, just a fantastic all rounder, I still love it, can't wait to hit corners on it every time I go out 🙂

Interesting stuff..

Cheers for the reply, I know about the 29er size as I've already asked mojo and that the next slot for production is mid March...
I've a feeling I'm going to miss that one though, no rush though all good things.....

Ps:travelling not an issue mileage wise Scotland may be a bit too far but will see when I get round to arranging it....

It has a little more 'flop' effect, as you'd expect,

What does "flop" effect mean?

tooTATtoRIDEWheel flop refers to the way a bike tends to turn more than expected due to the front wheel "flopping" over when the handlebars are turned. Caused by the lowering of the front end as the bars are turned. It's a function of head angle and trail. slacker head angles and reduced offsets result in increased trail and thus an increase in 'flop'.

The rotational inertia of the front wheel reduces the effect, this is basically more speed. So at slower speeds there is a feeing of faster turn in or falling in. Not necessarily a bad thing but requiring effort to counteract at slower speeds but also contributing to easier turn in in many ways at higher speeds once a turn has been initiated which is slightly counter intuitive.

Thank you for this very helpful explanation. Much appreciated.

Been watching this thread for a while now with great interest. Really disappointed to see the costs increasing £250 across all the options though 🙁 I'd been considering the frame and fork option but at £3150 it really makes you wonder if it's justifiably that much better than some of the other offerings out there. Any idea what's driven the increase? Doesn't look like anythings changed?

Looks bloody ridiculous. Especially pictured at Cannock. Dem's angles are pretty well murgered out. I'm sure it suits some folk.

£ = supply:demand

GBP has weakened by 10% odd vs EUR, so that looks like an exchange rate correction.

Nice nominative determinism Mr Deer. 😉

I'm sure its worth the money and would still love to have one but its just too much cash for me

Chainline, are these frames (Geometron and GPI) optimised for air shocks? Or do they work equally well with coil shocks?

I think it is exchange rate correction. There are options you can choose or not that affect the price, for example the price includes a full frame bearing service and full suspension aftercare package including damage (not cosmetic)

@Wookster not materially, its about 3mm difference overall. I'm running a 35mm stem on that rather than my normal 30mm.

@tooFATtoRiDE You'd have to confirm that with Mojo, but optimised would be a good word to use. One of Mojo's staff uses a coil, and did at the demo so it clearly works with a coil. Whether it works as well I can't comment. Never tried it.

Angles work just fine at Cannock, or anywhere really. They angles aren't driven by stability..which is the common thought, it's about how they make the bike corner and the way they influence how you ride the bike, deliver reach and affect climbing. Clearly there are benefits to descending too, particularly in maintaining a neutral riding position on steep terrain. But a key driver was to maximise corner speed and traction on flat corners, the theory being that if you get the bike working really well on flat corners it becomes effective everywhere naturally.

How close is the geometry to that of a motocross bike? Just thinking that they're not designed for going downhill at all but for going around corners as fast as possible.

I'm still wondering about putting a -1 or -2 deg headset in my Spitfire (the headset I originally bought ended up in my new superslack Bird hardtail) but am thinking that maybe the bike needs longer reach to allow sufficient weighting of the front wheel on such a slack bike?

Can't comment on how close it is, just that the offroad bike was Chris's first inspiration.

I am lead to believe that the price change is to allow for a small number of dealers to begin offering the frameset and ease the testing load and make it geographically more accessible. Keeping up with test rides out of Mojo HQ is proving a challenge I gather.

That won't change the option of doing something on local trails with me or similar if that is a desired option but should make it easier overall to get and test the bikes.

The dealer option allows for an easier 'owner' configuration as I understand it's the frame set that will be offered.

chiefguru, I think the reach is key to the overall handling but shouldn't affect your ability to use a slacker front, that is down to how you ride it/weight it.

Ultimately many DH bikes are running around the 63deg mark and are short reach in comparison to a Geometron.

It will give you a feel for how the front deals with that kind of angle (63deg or below is when it gets really interesting) as slong as you don't decide that other (possible) handling traits like more difficult climbing unless you position yourself correctly and the possibility the rear may slide more are a direct result of just the HA.

Chainline - where did you see info on the ne DH bike? Couldn't see it on the facebook links you posted before.

Which info honourablegeorge

[url=

See if those work

That works 🙂

Wow.

[img] ?oh=ef5479ac89926d41744ccc9b4e5b32b2&oe=5723D627[/img]

iIs' going to be very interesting if he/they can post markedly better results or times.

Seen these in the flesh the other day. They are stunning/amazing, a lot of hard work from chris porter and the boys at one vision global racing. Good bunch of lads.
I'm slightly biased mind, as I have a geometron in the longest.

I have a little bias here too...

ION GPI reviewed by bikeradar: http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/nicolai-ion-gpi-the-gearbox-mtb-of-the-future-46472/

Thoughts?

Well I was there...I think it's a fair assessment by John, tho he struggled with the direction to move the gripshift which made it worse for him. I can change under a degree of load uphill now I'm used to it.

I would absolutely prefer a trigger. HE didn't bat an eyelid that it had a HA of 61deg and commented on how well it climbed. My std bike was struggling in the mud, the GPI was fine, I had a mud packed cassette. Easy enough to clear but the GPI just went in the garage after.

New batch of Geometrons should be in shortly with Mojo too..

I used to run an Alfine off road and adapted to the (supposed) inability to shift under load really quickly. As its an instant shift you only need the slightest pause and you're sorted. I suspect the gearbox is similar.

I thought that was a fascinating review. I think the gearbox is the "right" solution for the drivetrain of an off road bike (well, a suspension bike at least - it's less clear for hardtails), it's really just a question of whether there is enough investment/acceptance to break through the entrenched dominant position of the derailleur.

Chainline, taking into account the downsides of the gripshift, if you had to choose between normal geometron and GPI which would you choose?

Depends what I was doing I think longbearranger and how often I was riding. If you ride a lot its great as wear is tiny. If I was winching and plummeting, i.e. my local terrain was steep and/or rocky, again I would be happy to plump for the GPI even with the gripshift, as if you dont need to change whilst navigating technical terrain its awesome.

On more varied terrain, I prefer my std bike, it feels a little livelier with the higher anti squat, and th trigger just makes it so much easier to be in the right gear all the timer, but the GPI is by no means bad, its just so much more efficient at evening out the terrain it can be less fun on flatter stuff where the std bike feels 'poppy and it is harder to change gear a lot whilst braking, weight shifting, changing direction etc, things that are easy wioth a trigger.'

I have to say that a trigger shifter would make it a much harder decision.

It remains to be seen if Pinion or anyone else strives to make the gearbox more efficient and/or lighter That is an area they haven't focussed on much due to the market being touring and trekking where is less of a concern due to the already high weights carried around.

For me the weight is less of the issue, although lighter still would be nice, its more the high gear sense of drag when the extra transfer gear kicks in. Its barely noticeable in the low gears.

With the advent of di2, wonder how easy it would be to either adapt or come up with a similar system to give a trigger system

Sir HC....patience my child.....

With the advent of di2, wonder how easy it would be to either adapt or come up with a similar system to give a trigger system

Sir HC....patience my child.....

I wouldn't hold your breath too hard..they've been promising for a few years....they keep promising....

There are loads of DIY electric shifting vids on youtube, perhaps it needs someone from the outside to develop it for them.

It will be worth keeping an eye on Eurobike this year I reckon.....

I'd not seen this aftermarket Rohloff electronic shifty before -

http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm

Not cheap, not neat, not recommended for off road use.

Nicolai made up some triggers for the Pinion but the thumb pressure required to shift was just too high, it either needs some gearing at either/both ends or an electronic solution. I guess you could argue that electronic takes away a little of the fit and forget ethos but for touring you could charge with a dynamo, for mtb its not a big deal. The question has been why would they do anything when mtb is such a small market for them, perhaps with the advent of e-mtbikes (much as I hate them for everything except people with mobility restrictions) there could be more call..

Chainline,

Many thanks for your comprehensive and thoughtful reply on the merits of the gearbox - much appreciated. Lots for me to think about! I'm not looking to buy a Geometron right now (unfortunately), so have a little time to think things over properly and see what develops over the next year or so.

Cheers
Phil

simons_nicolai-uk - Member
I'd not seen this aftermarket Rohloff electronic shifty before -
> http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm
Not cheap, not neat, not recommended for off road use.

off topic, but from Simons link / dam yous ugly:

[img] [/img]

Chainline: Di2 pinion. make it happen!

Wouldn't a relatively easy bodge be to use a heavy duty servo from a radio control model to pull the cables? Maybe mount it somewhere on the downtube.

I used to run an Alfine off road and adapted to the (supposed) inability to shift under load really quickly. As its an instant shift you only need the slightest pause and you're sorted. I suspect the gearbox is similar.

It is. I've started to think that there must be something wrong with my riding that I never find it an issue. I was on my 1x11 bike at the weekend and had far more trouble with the gears on that. The SRAM trigger never seems to be in the right place - needs a big reach to shift and I knock my thumb on it as well.

I think it depends on how you ride Simon, I find myself wanting to change whilst preparing to change direction or whilst braking in a straight line in preparation for either a corner or rise/descent, or whilst winding through trees on undulating terrain, in those instances moving my grip/position on the bars I find awkward. It's manageable but with a trigger I don't have to change anything except move my thumb.

As I get used to it, it is much less of an issue ,as I hope I have mentioned, but it still annoys me and is not ideal. Ze Germans have less of an issue as they brake mostly with the other hand!

I do this brake/shift thing on a normal bike by gently 'ghost' pedalling as I approach said corner, it should in theory be much easier as there's no need to pedal with the gearbox...

With the added momentum and publicity the GPI has generated I think if we are going to see the electronic trigger it's this year....

I know other (small specialists) are also looking at chain driven 'box solutions (that don't infringe Honda patents) Although you would think they wouldn't care or would licence any specific tech....

^^ could you not just run the shifter on the rear brake side, albeit reversing the shift direction which I imagine will be irritating until you get used to it.

Love Nicolai's and the idea of gearboxes (having not tried one) so watching this thread with interest.

Gearboxes are the future. They have to be. :0) Although I've had gripshift years ago but never really got on with it But...

^^ could you not just run the shifter on the rear brake side, albeit reversing the shift direction which I imagine will be irritating until you get used to it.

I often thought that an up shifter on the right and a down on the left might overcome the required extra pressure needed to operate the gearbox? I'd happily run two shifters again with a gearbox over one gripshift.

I often thought that an up shifter on the right and a down on the left

Has been done for Rohloff which is the same 'action'

https://www.cinq5.de/schaltsysteme/shiftr-fuer-flatbars/

[img] [/img]

Shift action is too heavy. We looked at that.

Yes you could switch the shifter to the lefthand side without problem. In fact for some people who have used it the direction would be more intuitive, rotating rearward rather than forward for bigger gears. At least tow test riders struggled with rotate back for lower gears initially.

Chainline - (that don't infringe Honda patents)

I thought that was just a rear mech in a box, any ideas why they arent developing but still stopping others?

thepodge. It effectively was just that. A little more complex but that basically. Don't know why they stop others, they aren't in the market and I doubt they'd return.

If you take the mech out of the crud and out of harms way...you get most of the benefits; the wear would be much lower anyway and the action is fine, we now have a big gear range (50t low, 10 high and could have closer ration's, there is more room across the frame than on one side of a wheel...its very efficient, not massively expensive in theory, simple to fix, light overall. Implementation could be a challenge with different suspensions designs I guess..but it would tick a lot of boxes with the exception of perhaps 10s of thousands of miles of use without any maintenance,

Who knows what will happen...

I do this brake/shift thing on a normal bike by gently 'ghost' pedalling as I approach said corner, it should in theory be much easier as there's no need to pedal with the gearbox...

I was on the road bike today and realise I do exactly the same. But sometimes it's awkward - for me that's always been one of the big advantages of Rohloff/Pinion. Coming fast into a corner or the end of a descent you can keep yourpedals level, ankles and wrists dropped and brake as late as possible. Trying to ghost pedal stood up on a rough descent isn't ideal.

Only when you come out do you need to worry about shifting and can instantly drop as many gears as you need before you start pedalling.

Out of interest, is there any bike bag that could accommodate the Geometron frame without removing the forks?

I doubt the frame+forks would fit the Evoc or Biknd bags with the min 1260mm wheelbase.

I use an Evoc, no need to remove forks. two ways to do it.

Remove front brake and reverse forks. Remove derailleur and hanger.

MUCH easier is just undo front shock bolt, wrap shock in bubble wrap, lift swingarm to reduce length, fit in bag. No problem. I had a slackened longest in no problem like that.

Speaking of which I was testing a modified Longest at the weekend, spot on.

Longer Swingarm running a 222 shock for 175mm rear travel and a good curve. -1 on the head angle and the full 180mm fork as usual.

I loved it, was worried I wouldnt be able to move it around etc but no such problems, I could really load the front and get tons of grip, was great.

The rear set up allowed you to carry great speed through roots and chunder.

It's not such a great 'trail' bike as the std bike. But the idea is basiscally to allow you to either swop shocks (by flipping the chip to account for the length) Or we are also checking how the 222 feels with sufficient volume spacers to increase the progressiveness and reduce the travel to 155mm for normal use. Key is to see if it is possible to replicate the feel with the shorter length shock.

This setup allows you to set the bike up for either the alps or uplifted trips but then easily return it to being a normal everyday trail bike.

The longer travel version pedals just as well as the 155mm version when seated, but the softer initial travel is noticeable when honking out the saddle whereas the std bike is much firmer in that aspect, but thats expected and partly the point.

The longer swingarm will be available as an option. Something to consider of you do big alps trips or even if you are a very big guy.

How long does that make the back end? It's starting to sound like my Keewee ;o) though even that is getting a bit short and steep these days.