Pivot Shuttle SL: 60Nm, 430Wh, 16.5kg, £12.5k

I just don’t get the ‘I can’t stand STW because they dare acknowledge that there are expensive bikes and people do buy them’ mindset. I have no intention of buying one, but enjoy reading the reviews.

Yeah, fair enough, and it’s different strokes for different folks – personally I don’t read them, as I don’t really care what the bike’s like, as I’ll never buy it, but I get others are interested in what a top-end bike is like.

For me though it’s not necessarily ‘dream bike’ type stuff, it’s what seems to be the blind acceptance of the cost of ‘general riding’ stuff that winds me up more. I had a very mild spat with Mark a few months ago about a pair of Spesh shoes that were £180. Now, I think that’s mental for something that is reasonably equivalent in structure and materials to a £80 skate pump. Or, being generous, a pair of approach shoes, which come in at about £120, and they’ll have a waterproof membrane that the Spesh shoes didn’t. Mark however thought it was a perfectly reasonable price for a “technical riding shoe” (his words). That just says to me that they’ve drunk a bit too much of the marketing Kool-Aid, and lost some of the objectivity that they used to have.

But, saying all that, if the recent Decathlon jacket/cheap bike test stuff is a sign of things changing, then brill, more power to their elbow.

Shoes and helmet reviews are almost the most annoying things in any mag because unless it fits it doesn’t matter how much of a bargain it is at £180

Planet X do fantastic helmets for £15. I compared a leading brand that looked very similar to the Planet X one, and I found the Planet X one more comfortable and build quality just as good.

I had a very mild spat with Mark a few months ago about a pair of Spesh shoes that were £180.

Pretty sure my shoes cost over £200! Shimano S-phyre things.

15 years ago I probably spent £80 on top end the Spesh body Geom shoes, but they’re over £200 now.

Thinking about it, my winter road boots were also over £200 IIRC.

Mark however thought it was a perfectly reasonable price for a “technical riding shoe” (his words).

Yep – that’s the going rate and they sell like hot cakes…..

and lost some of the objectivity that they used to have.

No, they’re spot on with where the industry is going – lots of very expensive bike parts / accessories coming to market and all selling very well.

Planet X do fantastic helmets for £15. I compared a leading brand that looked very similar to the Planet X one, and I found the Planet X one more comfortable and build quality just as good.

My current lid is a £30 Planet X thing – doesn’t quite fit my head though, so keep meaning to find something better..

Yep – that’s the going rate and they sell like hot cakes…..

Sell like hot cakes, or just sell though?

I’d bet there’s a normal distribution of shoe prices Vs sales with a huge majority of people buying the £60-£80 mid range. I’m sure they sell the £200 ones (after all, I’ve got a pair of the older R171’s because they only made those or the very cheapest in a wide fit) but they won’t be the most popular (even if all your mates have them, that just says you hang around in a different circle).

I would love reviews that help you make an informed decision for examples lights.

A few years back STW tested lights

I think the range was something like £600 down to the budget ‘bargain’ £150.

I’ve never spent £600 on lights but I have bought Aldi lights and Amazon £40 things.

The Aldi was crap and lasted about a month, the Amazon is still going strong.

Its that kind of review I would love to see.

Do you get equally bothered by how many Rolexes sell or how many Ferraris?

It’s just choice. Choose not to buy it is fine, but to get upset that other people can/do is slightly odd behaviour…..

You are missing the point. I don’t think the mood is anti well healed people buying expensive things. It’s a fixation of a magazine (or rather this magazine) spending too many words on these things. Mark and co clearly know their demagraphic better than I do….but is it the Rolex buyer who the mag is aimed at now? A sort of Tatler for bike riders.

With most industries eg cars / aviation, the high end products generate the most margin which end up subsidising the low end stuff, so you actually benefit from it even if you never purchase it.

You know that’s not how it works?

You spend all your money on some super project (Bugatti, Dura Ace), spend money marketing it, then sell R8’s (ultegra) off the back of those, A3’s off the back of those (105), Golf (Tiagra) and finally Octavia’s (Sora), which fund your next project. Same reason any company gets into motorsport, Yamaha aren’t funding their WSB/BSB/MotoGP efforts off the back of a few M1 sales, R1, or even MT09’s, it’ll be their scooters and 400cc bikes doing the heavy lifting on the balance sheet.

Where’s Guy Kes to settle this debate once and for all.

🤡🤣

You know that’s not how it works?

Yep it’s exactly how it works – with BMW most of the margin is in the top end models, base models are not very profitable – which is why they de-prioritised them over the top end models during the chip shortage.

Premium models = higher profit margin: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-cfo-luxury-idUSKBN1WP1MS

Prioritise premium models: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/bmw-says-2021-profit-surged-as-it-favored-higher-margin-vehicles-during-chip-shortage.html

Brand halo products, which is what you’re alluding to, is a separate issue – bling models add brand cachet, but they also have a higher % margin than base models.

Yep it’s exactly how it works – with BMW most of the margin is in the top end models, base models are not very profitable – which is why they de-prioritised them over the top end models during the chip shortage.

Individually, but when they’re not limited in the number they can build by the shortage of one common part they’ll be making more money selling hundreds of thousands of 1-series compared to the comparative handful of 7-series they’ll make.