Which tests?

Oops sorry, indeed IBA (btw, I trust Wikipedia about as much as I trust the IBA).

I don’t know Kelvin, I’m not an expert on sex tests. Chromosome testing would at least provide an accurate base for people to argue from.
Would you prefer one of the other options I put forward? Self determination or open events?

Well Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting could volunteer to do tests (I’m not saying they should, but that they could) which would settle the matter.

Settle what matter? They compete as women at the Olympics under IOC rules that they satisfy.

End of.

Though I am loving some of the social media pulling in some of the trans hating male commentators who admit to taking testosterone to counter their low testosterone levels. If high testosterone levels make women “men”, surely it’s only right that it works the other way….

This thread currently make me cringe. I don’t know what the rights and wrongs are but these two competitors are women under the current rules.

How do you think it make them feel to have constant questioning of their gender?

Some of you need to use your brains and have some empathy.

I’m not really referring to the current situation – as you say they are there under current regulations. I’m talking about how we could avoid a similar situation occurring in the future. And my question was to Kelvin, though I’m interested in anyone’s answer.

I’ll wade in despite previously staying out. And indeed I am still staying out – I’m not getting into the transathlete debate again, and certainly not into the social TG debate, I’ve +1’ed Kelvin’s comment on the last page that sums up where I am there.

I’ll also state clearly IANAE on genetics and hence the below is from a position of relative technical ignorance. I also apologise for any clumsy phrasing, it isn’t meant.

I googled and it suggests DSD occurs in between 0.1 and 0.02% (1 in 1000-5000) of births. And an athlete with (some types of) DSD may have potential advantages in some types of sport, but it’s not an absolute – Imane Khelif for example wins 4/5 bouts which isn’t exceptional, and sport isn’t overrun with DSD athletes sweeping the board.

So what to ‘do’ with them? Should they be forced to take suppressing treatments to limit their advantage, whatever that is? Or be banned altogether.

My answer – no. Sporting success already is a mix between genetic advantage, talent, and hard work. To even be competitive at that level you have to have ‘superior’ genetics, whether internal (lung capacity, fast twitch fibres, whatever) or external – size, arm span, hand size, and so on. Bolt was dominant because of his height and an unnatural stride length, no-one suggests he should have been limited to make it ‘fairer’ for other athletes. Other sprinters couldn’t win WC or Olympic models because they were born at the same time as Bolt, which is just tough.

Imane Khelif did not choose her genetics. She’s a woman with a genetic abnormality that has worked **** hard to be good at her sport. Good for her, I wish her well in the rest of this competition.

I presume there are testosterone limits in womens as well as mens boxing?

The female boxer was born female and its not like her record is incredible, she has six or something stoppages in 50 fights.

Just look at some of the female (and male) UFC fighters, juiced to the gills!

I noticed that you confidently stated in an earlier post that Khelif was ‘not a man’. Do you have information I’ve not seen that leads you to say this? The WBO statements suggest otherwise – though as someone else pointed out they might not be a trustworthy source.

Sure, she’s a woman. The ONLY question comes from a discredited Russian body that DQ’d her after she beat a Russian boxer, and since they won’t even say how they tested her, I’m not minded to give that any credence whatsoever.

Jesus – your fragility is startling.

Yes, you.

Good news! No-one told you to shut up.

Forget the two boxers, athletics has a much bigger problem.  I was listening to the “women’s” 100m final last night and there was barely a women in the race. Some bloke called Alfred won it, there was another lad called Terry then there was Richards Son, and Jeffers Son as well.

These guys aren’t even pretending to not be men, should I write to my MEP to protest?

Unfortunately I had very little Internet again last night or I could have watched it to see these so called women run but I bet they had flat chests or something equally obvious that proves they were actually men.

Now, where’s my copy of the Daily Mail…

😉