Also nonsense. Wtf is interesting about the llandegla climb? There’s no technical interest in it whatsoever.

I quite enjoy it, it’s not technical, but it’s far from the worst trail center climb.

Plenty do just point you up a straight 1in3 fireroad that’s a struggle in any gear.

Llandegla – play on the skills park, ride up through the woods, forgettable bit over the top, rest of the loop is mostly downhill (in my memory anyway, physics says it can’t be). Contrast to the Black loops which seem to make the climbing as painfull as possible?

Is the extent of our vision for mountain biking really limited to scalextric tracks around conifer blocks?

A sport disappearing up its own fundament by putting all its resources into trying to appeal to an ever smaller niche of enthusiast riders, thrill seekers and gravity junkies?

F’king depressing if you ask me.

kevog
Free Member

Is the extent of our vision for mountain biking really limited to scalextric tracks around conifer blocks?

The words “trail centre” are in the title.

i may be wrong, but didn’t “laps” originate in north america, where there is very little in the way of bridal ways, footpaths and established ancient byways that exist in europe

I don’t claim to be an expert but I would say the opposite- Americans having marked recreational trails (possibly shared use) that are either loops or out and backs

The British Columbia and Bellingham model seems to be an anomaly over there not the norm.

There is no doubt that e-bikes are changing things. Last time I rode at GT there were lots of steep shortcuts which looked doable with a motor (or are these from night riders descending the climbs?)

Maybe its an age thing (or learned behaviour) but I can only climb the same hill so many times, whether thats riding or pushing before I’m bored and ready to move on. The Golfie trails are amazing but if I had to constantly ride up the same way I would definately need an e-bike to dispatch it quicker.

Like the rider above, I too have enjoyed Hammers by mixing up the trail centre with off-piste. Same goes for Dalby and Glentress. Maybe there is a simple AND cheap answer here, get the FE and builders in a room and plan out new handbuilt sections properly so that they work together as loops moving forward.
I think GT has done this in places?

The other issue I have with our trail centre network is that the blues are an afterthought. GT shows what is possible but most are just exceedingly dull, even for kids. Kids actually like skills parks where they can try different features but then you have a choice of boring blue or out of their depth red.
Again, GT is the exception and shows just what is possible.

One thing I don’t get, is when somewhere like Gisburn or Dalby post up that they have returned a section to its original or better than state, and then get lots of grief for sanitising it. Due to the proliferation of wild trails these days, there is no shortage of technical difficulty if thats what you are looking for. The original trail centre loops were (sometimes confusedly) designed to an agreed standard which needs to be kept up to stay the right side of being sued.
As all this is done with signage, then it seems possible to have a further harder grade for handbuilt trails to protect the landowner.

How is the landowner dealing with this at the Golfie?

We had a family day at Stiniog on a typical dry, sunny Welsh day, which we all enjoyed. On the uplift bus, nebbing into conversations, it became clear that some riders almost exclusively ride uplifts these days. So for some riders, riding has changed completely, or they have just grown up riding these newer places.

On the uplift bus, nebbing into conversations, it became clear that some riders almost exclusively ride uplifts these days.

These people have always existed I think – I’ve certainly met a few in Morzine.

Not too long ago you had the choice of a DH bike (which needed assistance or walking to ascend) or an XC bike that was, well, a bit useless downhill – short, steep, arse up, tyres that disintergrated.
Some people had both, certainly, but others fell strictly into one camp or the other.

These days, a nice allrounder trail bike is perfectly adequate for Stiniog with a rider of average ability and bravery, so you’re actually getting the chance to meet and mingle with these people.

Mugboo
Full Member

Like the rider above, I too have enjoyed Hammers by mixing up the trail centre with off-piste. Same goes for Dalby and Glentress. Maybe there is a simple AND cheap answer here, get the FE and builders in a room and plan out new handbuilt sections properly so that they work together as loops moving forward.
I think GT has done this in places?

So as far as I know there’s no official liaison between the FC and wild builders at GT. Some of the offpiste is fully official offpiste, 5 year plan and b side frinstance are FC designed and led trails built mostly by volunteers, as is some of the race stuff for the GT7. Some is a mix, like, I think zoom or bust partly existed as an old race line but the trail as it exists now is likewise FC built with the trailfairies. All these sessions had an FC ranger leading and digging. The line between offpiste and waymarked is really thin, there- 5yp could have become the main line, it’s just that we kinda made it a bit hard. Mild Peril is a little more “built” but is in the exact same space, so it is officially waymarked. Can’t recall if zoom or bust has a post now.

Some is nudge-wink, like ponduro, which used the loosest definition of “formalising an existing line” imaginable. But I think the newer stuff like careless whisper is basically entirely unofficial, but condoned- and not just on a don’t ask don’t tell basis as demonstrated by the occasional interventions. They were built by skilled and forward-thinking builders who know what they can and can’t do, though, which is why they can coexist with the official trails- there’s some that crossed that line and got closed for how they interacted with existing trails.

(there is I’m sure deniable/unofficial FC involvement, off-record conversations etc, but that’s a different thing)

Trouble is, this is a really difficult model to export. Tweed Valley has a level of experienced and smart trailbuilders that isn’t common, and visible FC bike-specific staff, and still has the skeleton of the official trailfairies volunteer system even though that’s mothballed since covid, AND has the TVTA, and the racing, and it’s all come together largely organically. But it is brilliant, it’s succeeded in so many different ways. It’s also really fragile though.

Someone further up has flagged that all the stuff that was being ridden is still there…and for loads of people it still gets used, but for the newer riders – either the youngsters or the older people who have more recently started mountain biking then the ‘older’ stuff is of very little interest.
The idea of riding up a trail and that being challenging or having to ride to another location (connecting trails), etc. is completely alien to them.
Yes, bikes have evolved but so has the actual rider…
I’ve got a few work colleagues who are happy to drive for the 80 minutes it takes them to go to Glentress, they seem to do a ride from Buzzard’s to Spooky, down to cafe and fireroad back to car, then drive home – the idea of doing a local ride in the hills is completely alien to them and they refuse to come out and try the trails. This isn’t really new but they have kids who now ride but also only ride at Glentress – missing loads of great stuff locally.
We seem to be evolving and revolving…the demands/requests will come from a vocal minority but that will drive what is created, nothing wrong with the older stuff but if it isn’t appealing then it won’t be requested.
Being an antisocial kind of person nowadays I’m fine with quiet trails, but I do worry about the missed experiences for other riders if they aren’t willing/able to try other stuff.

Thanks, as always Northwind.