http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-26613806

I can’t blame the horsey people for wanting to have this investigated. Am not saying I think there are issues with the trail as is. Either way, I’d probably be concerned if I was taking my nag up and down that section regularly, especially in the belief that the whole of the south east MTBing community will now be rocking up to session hit.

Hopefully it’ll come to nowt and we can all co-exist happily again.

What a brilliantly retro photo to illustrate.

The blokes a proper serial complainer, however I’ll post what I put somewhere else:

After a perusal of Mr Miltons letters and dialogue with the council http://www.horseytalk.net/ROW.html, his argument seems to be formed around two areas of discussion

i) His belief/argument that the work carried out to construct the trail on common land needs formal consultation and consent from the SOS, under S38 commons act 2006
ii) An argument that cycling on common land is illegal under S193 law of property act 1925

however I would beg to differ, since IMO the works would not be prohibited by S38 since they neither

i) significantly restrict access or
ii) constitute ‘resurfacing’ within the meaning of the act

PINS produce an extensive document on the correct process for authorisation of works on common land and associated guidance on works that do not require s38 permission
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/…/guidance_sheet_1b…

And quite clearly the construction of a cycle trail falls into the section of works outside the remit of s38, as identical to ‘the creation or widening of unsurfaced footpaths for public use that facilitate access to the common for a legitimate purpose such as recreation, is exempt under grounds a (do not impede access) and c (facilitate access)

Secondly, the argument on cycling on common land is an old one, there is without doubt no automatic legal right to ride a bicycle on either common or CROW access land, and cycling is prohibited by law under s193 of the law of property act on ‘urban commons’ however the law has quite clearly judged (HOL judgement in Bakewell v Brandwood) that the landowner is able to offer “lawful authority” to the use of vehicles on common land, and that cycling both can and should be therefore recognised as a permitted activity on many areas of common land in keeping with their enacted purpose of creating a right of access for ‘air and exercise’ for the public – indeed it is recognised that horseriding was seen as prohibited on common land until as recently as 1998, when a court case finally recognised the pastime as lying within the same intent to confer the broadest possible rights of access for air and exercise by which we as an off-road cycling community would argue the spirit of the law was enacted with, and only sees us prohibited due to our inclusion in the blanket term ‘vehicles’ at a time before mountain biking as a recreational activity was conceived…

Finally, as an important point, I know that the trail being discussed at the moment is still a work in progress, the key factors in the design of a multi-user group interface is the design of the crossing point, and as long as that crucial point is designed with adequate sight lines for both cyclist and horse/rider and in a manner which controls the speed of the rider to minimise the risk of conflict then the risk of problems is removed – its not like this is a new idea and there is established best practice that ensures designed in safety where trails meet other user groups.

🙂

Do you know, that is probably the most comprehensive and salient answer I’ve ever seen on STW. Well done that man.

WTF – that small local issue made the BBC News website?

Am I in a parallel universe? What mext Mrs Humpilton-Smythe’s cake wins the Coldharbour annual Fair competition?

have you put that response anywhere ninfan, or just on here?

Mr Milton seems more keen to argue the toss about land access and planning permission than addressing the real issues.
I think he’d fit in well on here.

WTF – that small local issue made the BBC News website?

Under ‘England’ then ‘Surrey’. As if local news had reported it. It’s not like it’s vying for front page space with Russia/Ukraine or a missing plane…

Just on FB brakes, though I’ve sent it over to Rich Kelly.

What kind of cake was it?

Under ‘England’ then ‘Surrey’. As if local news had reported it. It’s not like it’s vying for front page space with Russia/Ukraine or a missing plane…

Ah right ok. Still Surrey- surely something else more news worthy would knock it waaay down?

Don’t they have any murders or rich people crashing Bentleys whilst pissed on Baileys?

Doesn’t that other well known Surrey Hills trail (BKB) cross both a footpath and bridleway without any sort of signage or barriers?

Never heard of any issues/conflicts on that trail.

Another storm in a teacup by the Nimbys of Surrey.

so we all ride on bridleways with nags on which is fine yet now a seperate trail next to one isnt fine. am i missing sumfin?

Ah right ok. Still Surrey- surely something else more news worthy would knock it waaay down?

Don’t they have any murders or rich people crashing Bentleys whilst pissed on Baileys?

Along with a story about a bloke from the north looking for a chip that fell out of his shoulder?

Back on topic, it does seem that the chap complaining would just complain about something else if it wasn’t cyclists.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/uh-oh-horse-and-hound-magazine-arent-happy-surrey-hills-content/page/3#post-5856887

barriers now in place

It’s complex pleasing everyone. I can’t help but feel the more official trails are made the less of the original goal is achieved. We managed ok didn’t we ten years ago.

Such a load of nonsense! A) you never see horse riders right at the top of leith hill. They seem to stick to the lower trails. B) the new trail will take you off the top of the hill parallel to the main trail, which is used by lots of families and walkers at the weekends. The new trail will make it much safer for other people by taking the bikes away from the main trail.

Perhaps what these nimbys should really protest about are the mindless greenlaners who have turned parts of Leith Hill in to a barren waste by continually driving their tanks through parts of the forest when the ground was too soft to cope.

Presume ‘we’ just do what is normally done, ignore/remove barriers and keep riding it until it becomes a fait au complet?

What we need it a bit of fracking in surrey hills to divert their attention….

There’s a lot wrong in that article.
There was a consultation, the trail wasn’t made by Surrey county council, and it’s not open yet, not because of the complaint, but because it’s not ready.

those barriers they have put in are going to spoil it so much though! right at the bottom of what looks to be a pretty quick decent just before a nice big berm! seems stupid the horse riders thinking they have more right to be there than us 🙁

[strike]said something then changed his mind[/strike]

‘morning all

seems stupid the horse riders thinking they have more right to be there than us

or cyclists thinking they have more right to be there than others…

I can’t help but feel the more official trails are made the less of the original goal is achieved. We managed ok didn’t we ten years ago.

and 10 years ago there were a lot less bikes around.

have they said that?

yes

yes

not the reasonable ones I think. there will be the odd nutter but there are plenty of those on bikes too.

Such a load of nonsense! A) you never see horse riders right at the top of leith hill. They seem to stick to the lower trails

Incorrect.

Horses head up to the tower from the east using the sunken trail that runs parallel with the start of the new section. They’ve been doing this for years.

and 10 years ago there were a lot less bikes around.

I still remember it being busy up and around there 10yrs ago. Its always been popular. 😉 😀

Not nearly as much as in recent times though Hora.

Not nearly as much as in recent times though Hora.

i have been riding in the area for nearly 15 years, cant say its busier now than it was 10 years ago. This is a massive storm in a tiny cup! The trails in their natural form have been there for years, horses, cyclist, walkers, flying pigs and oil drilling firms have co-existed before, we all need to behave and play nicely in the sandpit 😀

As for Mr Milton, I bet he would complain about himself complaining!

i have been riding in the area for nearly 15 years, cant say its busier now than it was 10 years ago

Just what I was thinking. Peaslake is, Winterfold is, Pitch definitely is, but actually because there’s now a lot more trails I think Leith is a lot quieter than 10 years ago.

I agree Leigh became quiet about 5 yrs ago but it’s picked up again in the last year or so IMO. Everyone seemed to migrate west but I think a few of those riders are pi55ed of at the Picadilly Circus nature of Peaslake/Pitch etc and have flocked back to Leith.

A few people agreeing with me, can this be happening on STW! 😉

Having said what I said, I would say that more mtb’ers are drawn to certain areas of Surrey Hills, with the publicity the official trails get in magazines etc. A similar thing on a micro scale in comparison, happened to a small patch of wood near the south coast. MBR IIRC were invited down for a photo shoot/article/s and the area grew in popularity – this area is now in great contention with other users and bikers. They’re going to ‘trail centre’ that too to keep bikers away from other users – it’s a long process fortunately! The trails are trashed too compared to what they were. The mag even published a photo of me riding over a pile of logs, which was ironic as the one’s who wanted to get in the mag didn’t and I was trying to keep out of it.

I don’t have any answers, what I’ve written (gibberish aside) is an observation

Not nearly as much as in recent times though Hora.

Saying that I did a three-hill round there recently and in parts it was like the Somme.

Build it, (publicise it), they come.

More trails, more riders, more contention.

It is a concern for me with the new Leith Hill trail, great as it is. However what’s done is done so we’ll need to deal with this as/if it arises.

In the meantime if the horsey folks have reasonable concerns they need to be considered or addressed. It’s a shared space not a trail centre.

Such a load of nonsense! A) you never see horse riders right at the top of leith hill.

I see them, but it doesn’t actually matter if they do or don’t, it’s their right to do so if they want. Remember, their rights are our rights.

Build it, (publicise it), they come.

More trails, more riders, more contention.

I’ve lost count how many times MBR etc have run almost bi-monthly features and ride guides in their mags.

If you’ve just bought your carbon Santa Cruz, bought all the mags and were it tells you to ride closeby…