People will tell you its not a hassle

You have clearly never spoken to any of the parents I know and certainly not me. It very much is a hassle…and a bind…and infuriating…and stressful. Still love 'em though, and nothing can beat those cliched special moments you have with them

People will tell you its not a hassle but then moan if anone makes noise in the afternoon cos their kid has just gone to sleep and theyre knackered from hours of crying.

You're talking about a period of time that is the equivalent of a heatbeat in timescale of parenthood. Although it does work this way sometimes, it doesn't last long.
Oh, and having kids does involve hassle 🙂

he worked too much so that mum didn't have to and so that we could have holidays and a nice house. it meant he'd be gone for 12-14 hours a day, saturdays were for him (golf) and he just wanted a quiet day on sunday.

And not having kids changes the work ethic? ……… and the golf was his choice, much like riding is your choice.

I didn't want kids. My wife didn't want kids – when I met her (she was 17). At 30 she "decided" she did want them. I don't think it was a concious decision, just a maternal instinct that kicked in. I suppose people call it becoming broody.
I still was totally against it, caused all sorts of problems, with her actaully leaving me for a year or so.
Well, she came back, we had a son and he is wonderful.
When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say". Obviously I wouldn't wish my son gone now, but of course I can imagine life without him. Without the responsibilities that parenthood brings. I certainly would get more time mountain biking than I do now!!
I say, if you don't want them, don't have them, but be prepared for the female instincts!

simonfbarnes – Premier Member

so that we could have holidays and a nice house

epic FAIL

i think he'd agree, simon.

yeah. he's got/had a strong work ethic. but that was all he knew till he met mum and made us.

oh, i had a happy childhood. his brother (my uncle) was like a second dad to me. he retired at 54 and has enough time and money to do what ever he likes….

I'm quite happy not having kids. It would be nice, but the amount that I would need to sacrifice for it is just too much for me. My freedom is too important. That may be selfish, but in a lot of ways not having kids is also UNselfish – if oil is running out and global warming is happening then the life on this world's going to be worse for the next generation than for us. Let's slim down the population rather than just mindlessly knocking more and more people out and letting the global population balloon and there not be enough land for anyone.
Also, probably irrationally, but people with kids do annoy me. As someone else mentioned the fact they always seem to get time off to go and pick them up. I was trying to get people to play for the sports team I'm running yesterday – most couldn't play for "kids" reasons. One of them had to go and pick their kids up. I remember walking home from things when I was a kid. What happened to the team that YOU joined? why bother joining it if you aren't going to bother playing…?

When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".

I assume you meant to say 'in my case it was the right thing to say'?

currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.

oh make that 4. Didnt want any, dont want any, the endless gushings of the self centred (15 voices so far) only serve to reinforce my thoughts.

if oil is running out and global warming is happening then the life on this world's going to be worse for the next generation than for us.

Ohh, here we go. If that is your view then you should ask for assisted suicide and stop being a drain on the earth's dwindling resources – after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?

EDIT: It is like sitting in your car running the engine when you don't actually need to go anywhere…

When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".

Errr……not me. You already stated you never wanted children so I don't think you're in a good position to make statements about how other people regard their lives since becoming parents.

Edit: actually I can imagine my life without my girls….. empty and unfulfilled.

currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.

Have you considered that is because the overwhelming majority of people have a desire to have children and those not wanting them are the minority?

We're all self centred. We're just self centred about different things.

This thread wasn't after all, titled 'Persuade me I will like kids'.

You don't like the 15 voices that said something you don't like, fair enough. Since he asked about peoples thoughts on kids in general, I'd suggest you get with the comprehension of written English.

currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.

What would be the point in asking an opinion if the OP only wants answers that agree with him?

I'm quite happy not having kids…That may be selfish

I've never really got the whole "not having kids is selfish" thing. Selfish to who exactly? Surely you can only be selfish if you put yourself before others, not if you put yourself before theoretical people that don't exist yet?

As you rightly point out, the human race really doesn't need a bigger population, so in many ways actually having kids is a selfish act* (cf "The Selfish Gene").

(*Note: this does not exclude the possibility of it being a wonderful experience or it requiring huge acts of selflessness when bringing up the kids)

currently 18 voices and only 3 are relevant to the OP.

Eh? All of us who have kids now didn't have them once upon a time, maybe even going through the same process as Alpin. Surely that makes our comments relevant to this post. Do we all need vetting before replying to posts on here? Some of us have work we'd rather not be doing and this is our relief.

If that is your view then you should ask for assisted suicide and stop being a drain on the earth's dwindling resources

Hehehe 🙂

after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?

being happy….?
oh, and you can scatter your seed without producing children as my keyboard will attest.

note to self…. must clean keyboard and buy kleenex.

I always said I wanted "1 at most, preferably less", MrsV always said she wanted 2 and had a rough target of starting in her early 30s.
At 29 and 50 weeks her biological alarm went off like an atom bomb… There was a sketch at the time on a show called Spoons where a lass, when asked an innocuous question about what she wanted, would reply "I WANT A F'ING BABY", well that was MrsV to a T…

Needless to say, before we hit 31, there was the patter of tiny feet.

In my experience it's true to say that;
– You lose freedom
– You lose independence
– It's hard work
– It's stressful
– It's expensive
– At times it's unrewarding

However it's also true to say that;
– When it is rewarding it's the most rewarding thing you've ever known.
– Seeing her grow and learn and develop is, at times, astonishing.
– She appears to be accepting bike-related brainwashing from her dad so we can gang up on her mum.
– I have excuses for why I'm playing with Lego.
– MrsV now concedes that she's happy to stick with 1.

OK, some of my positives are a bit flippant, but there's no way on earth that I'd go back if I could. Also, she's 3.5 now and I'd say that most of the negatives only applied to the 1st 18months.
For us one of the hardest bits has been the fact that we don't live near our relatives so it's not very easy to "palm her off" on them when we feel we need a break.

The whole "I can't imagine life without them" thing is bollocks, I can easily imagine having more cash and the freedom to go on lads holidays whenever I wanted BUT I don't want that now.

To be honest Alpin, a lot of what you're saying sounds a little like myself when I realised the Mrs was serious 😉

Well we've got 4 kids – 3 are biologically ours & one is adopted
We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years

They have never prevented either my wife of me doing things that we wanted to do – it just sometimes needs planning

If I could turn back the clocks – I'd do it all again

uplink – Premier Member

Well we've got 4 kids – 3 are biologically ours & one is adopted
We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years

doffs cap. very admirable thing to do IMO.

after all what purpose do you have on the planet if you are not going to scatter your seed?

being happy….?

You didn't get the point I was making did you?

We have also fostered 26 other kids over the years

😯 **** me!

New found respect for uplink!

the endless gushings of the self centred (15 voices so far) only serve to reinforce my thoughts.

hmmm, although I thorougly enjoyed bringing up my kids, I wouldn't characterise it as self indulgence. If you're happy to be alive then you must be glad your parents bothered making you, I suppose. I think there are too many people on the planet now, but of course not wanting to reproduce is a hyper-recessive characteristic…

mastiles_fanylion – Member

When people say they can't imagine life without their kids, I think that is just "the right thing to say".

I assume you meant to say 'in my case it was the right thing to say'?

Maybe. But you honestly can't imagine life without kids? Not much imagination then (or even memory!) 🙂

(edit. and no, not "in my case", because I wouldn't say it)

Kids aren't right for everyone BUT sometimes things don't turn out the way you had planned. Would strongly advise keeping an open mind about it.

I didn't think I could have any but got the shock of my life when I discovered I was pregnant. Wasn't happy at all and found it difficult to adjust at first. However, I had a little bundle to take care off, stepped up to the mark and threw myself into being a full-time mum. Had a second one less than two years later.

I honestly believe that having children has made me what I am today. A huge learning curve.

Edit: fast forward to the 21st century and feel that dependancy on the bank of mum and dad has been created. Parents have some tough decisions to make and for that reason, I can understand people not wanting any.

**** me!

New found respect for uplink!

please no – that has been over the last 27 years & some were very short term – & I may have over-estimated
My wife says it's only 24

mastiles_fanylion – Member

You didn't get the point I was making did you?

yeah. completely. i've seen Attenborough's Life on Earth. although there are lots of sepcies where members of the society forgo reproduction in order to help collect food, make nests and look after the youngsters.

maybe i, too, am a mole rat?

Proud dad of three, yeah its hardwork but very rewarding.

But you honestly can't imagine life without kids

Literally? Yes. Emotionally? No.

Can I have a 'proud mum' moment? Seeing my son graduate with a 'proper' degree 8)

yeah. completely. i've seen Attenborough's Life on Earth. although there are lots of sepcies where members of the society forgo reproduction in order to help collect food, make nests and look after the youngsters.

Perhaps you are – that model doesn't apply to humans – there is no need for worker people in human society as the parental figures supply for the offspring. So your worker human role is redundant and unnecessary.

might as well top myself now then….

where's dem pills?

No kids here and highly unlikely I'll ever be a father.

a) no girlfriend
b) far too much responsibility for my liking
c) I get woken up by next doors baby screraming it's head off
d) My brother has six of them.

Kev

might as well top myself now then….

If you want to save the planet it would be the right thing to do 😉

MF – what about the bit in 'Life On Earth' where a population stabilises at the level that its environment can sustain, rather than using individuals to bring extra resources to them from other places so they can keep breeding. Or doesn't that apply to humans as well?

The OP asked whether people wanted to admit to being happy not having kids. I knew from really young that I didn't want kids, but was quite open to the notion that as I got older (i.e. when women get broody and the hormonal stuff kicks in) that I might change my mind. As it happens I never did – and yes I am totally happy living with my partner of nearly 20 years without kids. This may sound a bit flippant (and it's not intended that way) but Alpin – I really wouldn't worry about it too much .. there are plenty of other things to be thinking about as you get older. 😀 If you decide you want kids then great, if you don't that's also fine.

This may sound a bit flippant (and it's not intended that way) but Alpin – I really wouldn't worry about it too much .. you are still young and there's plenty of other stuff to be thinking about as you grow up. If you decide you want kids then great, if you don't that's also fine.

10/10

I have the greatest respect for a couple of former work colleagues who said that as much as they love their kids to bits, if they had to go back and live their life again, they'd choose not to have children.

MF – what about the bit in 'Life On Earth' where a population stabilises at the level that its environment can sustain

Sadly humans are cunning enough that we'll continue to devise more and more ways to find sustenance from the environment – at the cost of every other living thing. We'll only stop when there is literally nothing left – like mould eating a bit of bread till there is no bread left. 😕

But we'll let ou kids worry about that eh? 😀

Al I can say is you do come out the other side and REALLY enjoy it! 49 now three grown up kids who are good friends, pitty they don't like going downhill as fast as me!

Interesting topic (as it alwas seems to get some people a wee bit het up!). I don't have kids, and have never wanted them. And to counter what seems to be the accepted view of 'women and their biological clock', I'm female and now 42. I'm perfectly happy for my friends who have had children when they wanted them, and sad for those who want children but can't have them. There are a few things that do annoy me though:
– the repeated comments all through my late 20's and early 30's of 'you'll change your mind when you get older and want children' (despite me being quite clear in my views of definately not wanting them!) – erm why is wanting children deemed the most likely or acceptable option?
– parents who have an expectation that relatives will be on hand for free baby-sitting, and then feel resentment about you 'not helping' when you don't want to look after their children. In my view, if you decide you want to have children it it is your responsibility – if others wish to offer to help then that is great, but don't expect others who have not choosen to have children to look after yours.

And I don't consider either those with children or those without children to be selfish, it is just a metter of choice.

I'm not really swayed either way, dont really want children, but if it happened it wouldn't be the end of the world…

I do enjoy my freedom and its the thought of giving all that up thats stops me…but the only thing I think about is that when I am older or old, I wont have any children or grand children around me…..and I think that could be a bit lonely…