Wow talk about selectively picking your data

Wow, I chose from the first time he stood in Islington North until the most recent election, what did you think I meant by “Since becoming MP for Islington North…”? How is that “selectively picking” ffs ? 🙄

In fact it shows how unpopular the Labour party was between the late 70’s to late 80’s

And Jeremy Corbyn significantly increased the Labour vote in Islington North in the 80’s, I think it’s you who’s doing the selective picking of data.

convert – Member
To be honest if the drivel of half truths, generalities and banal idealism that is passed off as political comment on my social media feeds is considered by the general populous as an accurate representation of the news and current thinking we are thoroughly screwed whatever.

Presumably you’d do what I do, and look at stuff that people you know and respect are talking about, and then follow up on it and make your own decision.

Use of social media doesn’t mean you have to mindlessly follow the herd.

making his seat one of the safest Labour seats in the UK.

You are insinuating he made it one of the safest seats for Labour, when in reality it had been for the 40 previous years. Yes the share of his vote increased through the 80’s but so did the Labour vote in general as the moved towards gaining power in 1995.

There is nothing you can extrapolate from his election wins in Islington Noth through to the wider country. Apart from the that Labour’s Islington % win tends to mirror the overall voting pattern for Labour in general e.g. popular when Labour were in power and not when they weren’t.

Presumably you’d do what I do, and look at stuff that people you know and respect are talking about, and then follow up on it and make your own decision.

Use of social media doesn’t mean you have to mindlessly follow the herd.

My problem with social media is using it as a source of news, political or otherwise. As a place for commentary between fellow ‘non experts’I guess it is OK but if it was your only source of information it’s a sad state of affairs. In my day job I deal with 17&18 yr olds almost constantly – it appears to be a generation that do not watch the news on telly, don’t read news papers plus also rarely visit news (or news editorial) websites. Their only window on the world is via social media processed drivel. Far from the being the most informed and liberated generation yet (as they should be with a world of information available to them) I would suggest they are an ignorant, misinformed and easily misdirected group. They seem to live in a self indulgent bubble more than any generation before them. They have little political emotion because they know so little. It’s a worry.

You are insinuating he made it one of the safest seats for Labour, when in reality it had been for the 40 previous years. Yes the share of his vote increased through the 80’s but so did the Labour vote in general as the moved towards gaining power in 1995.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Because that is exactly what he has done.

Which getting back to my point suggests that he has some appeal in the ‘London Labour Heartlands’.

Apart from the that Labour’s Islington % win tends to mirror the overall voting pattern for Labour in general e.g. popular when Labour were in power and not when they weren’t.

so now that it’s more popular than ever, while Labour haven’t won a general election in 10 years, what does that say?

I agree with Comrade binnski, for a change.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Well if you are happy to ignore the results from 1945 and 1958 that is. In fact for the whole period from 1935 to present day only twice has the % voting labour in the constituency dropped below 50% (1969 with 49.2% and 1983 with 40.4%). So this seat is up there as one of the safest for Labour and Corbyn’s % vote is bang on par with the vote share expected historically.

From 1983 onward Corbyn’s % vote share mirrors Labours see graph, so it is clear that Corbyn is not out performing what is expected and hence, little to do with him personally.

Well if you are happy to ignore the results from 1945 and 1958 that is.

I am perfectly happy to look at the results from 1945-1958.

Corbyn’s majority this May was 3 times the average Labour majority in Islington North from 1945-1958.

.

From 1983 onward Corbyn’s % vote share mirrors Labours see graph, so it is clear that Corbyn is not out performing what is expected and hence, little to do with him personally.

Corbyn received more votes and a larger majority this May than he got in the Labour landslide of 1997, although percentage of the vote was down slightly. How many other Labour MPs achieved a result this May comparable to their result in the landslide of ’97? If many had we would have a Labour government today.

As I said earlier…………….the alternative that Corbyn offers has an appeal in the ‘London Labour Heartland’ too. Even though some people people claim he’s a certain election loser.

No matter how much you go about “selectively picking your data” dragon.

This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015, in fact Corbyn’s 5.8% increase shows he under performed when the average Labour increase was 7.1%

Corbyn’s majority this May was 3 times the average Labour majority in Islington North from 1945-1958.

I assume you mean total numbers which is a totally meaningless figure as the population of the UK has grown. Using percentages is a much better method and shows Corbyn’s result are simply normal for a Labour candidate in that seat.

I am insinuating that Jeremy Corbyn has made Islington North one of the safest Labour seats in the UK, and has achieved the largest Labour majority ever in Islington North.

Excellent, with Corbyn at the helm, Labours safe seats are even safer

Lucky you don’t need to appeal to anyone in the swing seats in order to win an election, isn’t it?

dragon – Member

This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015

Says the person who declares “Wow talk about selectively picking your data” ! 😆

Phew! All these stats are bewildering but both ernie and dragon seem to have missed the most important one.We haven’t elected a prime minister with a beard since 1900.

Since first being elected Corbyn’s once impressive beard has diminished hugely in stature, I expect him to be clean shaven in another 5 years. He’s obviously been planning his journey to Downing Street for a very long time.

Fiendishly clever these lefties 🙂

loddrik’s earlier post was very insightful,Del boy Hatton just been on Newsnight backing Corbyn,I think?It’s an establishment conspiracy to demonise him obviously.I actually thought that Tony Mulhearn was the guy in the pic that loddrik posted was who he was referring too ,esp.being a taxi driver.Tony was a very good speaker and a decent bloke from what I recall.Seems to have stuck to his beliefs too.

I’ll bite.

Indeed, heaven forbid that the future of the LP should take Scotland into account. But take the point, criticism of the SNP is verboten. The masters of authoratitve rule and argument suppression.

Quite the opposite actually, you can constructively criticise all you like. The problem is that you refuse to do and instead just use the slightest opportunity to launch attacks on them which are repetitive and, quite frankly, boring. This is about Labour, you could have made your point brief but instead you chose the old routine. We get it, you don’t like them, you don’t need to keep going on about it (as an aside do you post anywhere else under the name Mexico86? If not I suggest you and him get together, he’s a fellow southerner who chooses to weight in with the same opinions, phrases and ignorance)

I say this as someone who would rather vote for someone other than the SNP if I had a credible choice. But I don’t, so I chose to use my vote where it might just count for something.

the truth is you know bugger all

Spot on. And like Andrew Marr yesterday I am very keen to learn why the SNP are so reluctant to use their current fiscal powers or why they think cutting corporation tax suits their anti-austerity (sic) agenda. Among many “hiddens” obviously. So for those of us in ignorance it was a pity that the deceitful one chose not to answer a perfectly straight question yesterday. Plus ca change. Talk about bingo……

Like Andrew Marr you obviously choose to either wallow in ignorance or play the fool to perpetuate a point. The fact is that the costs of implementing existing tax raising powers would outstrip any revenue generated (via duplication of existing services and increased admin costs) by virtue of the fact any raised monies are removed from the existing block grant. Why would anyone want to use powers that leave you worse off, answer me that?

Well that is the debate isn’t it. You have set out your hypothesis and I have set out mine ie, no panic, once the SNP are subject to proper scrutiny and opposition, the mirage will crumble. Of course they will spin the opposite because it is in their interest to do so and make the LP look like a party in panic.

But that’s not going to happen is it? We abandoned the Tories and then when Labour went the same we we kicked them to the kerb as well. If/when SNP lose support someone else will step into the void.

Couldn’t possibly be down to the fact true left wing politics are not very workable or popular in the UK and left wing politicians are as rubbish as all the others or possible worse at working together. In fact the whole rhetoric of the left seems to boil down to it’s not fair, it’s not my fault, it’s all their fault, if only we could live in our utopian bubble where the real world doesn’t apply.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-jeremy-corbyn-policies-that-most-people-actually-agree-with-10407148.html

To be generous to you, you’re probably just brainwashed by the media, rather than genuinely holding these ill-informed opinions yourself. Don’t worry, it’s not your fault.

Like Andrew Marr you obviously choose to either wallow in ignorance or play the fool to perpetuate a point.

Don’t forget the role of Shakespeare’s fool in pointing out the truth!

That of course, is the great secret of the the successful fool – that he is no fool at all – Asimov’s guide to Shakespeare

But thanks. Pity old Alex wasn’t able to give such a succinct answer. It’s obvious now……

Why would anyone want to use powers that leave you worse off, answer me that?

Why indeed, and yet lo and behold Swinney is proposing just that. What a strange old world Scottish politics is and that is before we get on to the economic foundations.

Penny for Scotland anyone!!!

It was funny to watch Swinney also spin the fact that Scottish “cuts” we’re less than expected and delayed.

So Labour have no need to panic. Just navigate the Scotch mist that surrounds the SNP and the lack of clothes on the Emperor will quickly become apparent. I am sure Jezza is smart enough to spot that – he is left wing after all!

1) why isn’t success in Islington North

“Well, that makes him a winner in Islington. Not exactly a good sample for the likeliest UK outcome…”

Why not?

“This graph shows that Labour increased their share of the vote in London between 2010 and 2015, in fact Corbyn’s 5.8% increase shows he under performed when the average Labour increase was 7.1%”

You don’t realise what you’re saying. Despite not having a collapse in his vote during the Brown years, Corbyn still managed to grow his share by 5.8%. A donkey could have increased the Labour vote 7.1% if it had previously dropped in that seat by 20%.

Why not compare what happened to Islington North to neighbouring and near by “safe” Labour constituencies?

Look at Islington South and Liverpool Walton both labour candidates increased share of vote more than Corbyn.

Why did Labour do better in all these simple the collapse of the Lib Dem vote.

From Today’s Guardian:

“Knock Knock”
“Who’s there?”
“Jeremy Corbyn”
“Jeremy Corbyn who?”
“Jeremy Corbyn”.

But I see no way that Liz whats-her-name, Eds wife, or Andy Burnham have the slightest clue how to make the labour party an actual electable political force, so they might as well have a punt on Jezza. It can’t really get any worse, can it?

the man love for Andy seems to have diminished a little Binners 😉

I know, or knew, Andy well. We went to school together (surprisingly – not Eton). He’s a top bloke. And seems to understand where the party went wrong. The Labour Party needs to reconnect with its disillusioned voters. He’s probably the right man for that.

That was before a proper Labour politician with sandals and socks threw his hat in the ring.

To be fair a few weeks ago Andy Burnham was Labour’s best chance.

But now due the arrogance and complacency of the political elite a real Labour politician is in with a chance.

Jezza is doing very well isn’t he? Some story and getting stronger today. Wonderful.

But now due the arrogance and complacency of the political elite a real Labour politician is in with a chance.

is Andy a fake labour politician?

is Andy a fake labour politician?

He was on the news today, trying very hard to be more authentically leftwing, but still he slipped into the safety first tactic of hedging his bets and not really saying what he thinks. I can’t even remember the subject, which says a lot. This is why Corbyn is doing well, among other reasons.

Well I won’t be the first to dismiss Blair and the political elite in the Labour Party as fakes.

Still, as a committed Tory supporter I wouldn’t let that worry you too much big and daft. The Tories in the Conservative Party seem pretty genuine 🙂

Coming lately to this mighty 10 page showdown between Ernie and the rest, and even though I have a general belief that the Labour Party was established to peddle essentially reactionary ideas to the working classes (and has only entrenched that position with the passage of time), I have to say that I LIKE JC. I knew him in the 80s when he was a trade unionist, and he was a straight decent bloke then……..and he really hasn’t changed (only the sandals.)What you see really is what you get with him.

And that is the secret of his current thoroughly unexpected success.

Still, as a committed Tory supporter[b]cynic[/b] I wouldn’t let that worry you too much big and daft. The Tories in the Conservative Party seem pretty genuine to be on holiday or laughing their socks off

FIFY

I’m more amused by your sudden Labour credentials Ernie IIRC you have stated previously that you haven’t voted labour in a long time and aren’t a party member…..

have you invested £3 in this election or are you still campaigning to get others to put their feet on the ground rather than getting your own hands dirty?

are you voting for Corbyn in the leadership election?

Well I won’t be the first to dismiss Blair and the political elite in the Labour Party as fakes.

but Andy he a “top bloke” and went to school with Binners, how can he be a member of the political elite?

Coming lately to this mighty 10 page showdown between Ernie and the rest

Really? Are you sure you’ve read the thread?

There appears to be a surprising level of support for Jeremy Corbyn on this thread, something which I clearly wholeheartedly approve of.

I’m not sure where you’re getting a “showdown” from, let alone a mighty one. Do you often misread things as impressively as that?

Or is it me who’s misread a subtle attempt at humour?

There appears to be a surprising level of support for Jeremy Corbyn on this thread, something which I clearly wholeheartedly approve of

are you voting for him though?

or do you want the £3 to be crowdfunded on here?

or would you fail the eligibility criteria

interestingly enough I can sign up to vote in the leadership via my trade union, not sure it even costs me £3

I’m more amused by your sudden Labour credentials Ernie IIRC you have stated previously that you haven’t voted labour in a long time and aren’t a party member…..

You are right – I haven’t supported Labour since Blair/New Labour, that’s hardly an unusual position …… a whole multitude of former Labour supporters share an identical position.

I think it’s unlikely that Corbyn will win the leadership contest but if he does then I can give a cast iron guarantee that, as long as he doesn’t go off the rails, I will support the Labour Party once more.

Again, nothing strange about that and it’s a position shared by countless other former Labour supporters. In fact one of the most powerful arguments in favour of Corbyn is that he will help to win back the millions of lost votes from former traditional Labour voters.

So carry on being amused but Corbyn posses a far greater threat to the Tories than someone like Liz Kendall.

I think it’s unlikely that Corbyn will win the leadership contest but if he does then I can give a cast iron guarantee that, as long as he doesn’t go off the rails, I will support the Labour Party once more

despite all the eulogies on here it isn’t worth £3 to help make it happen though?

are you sure you don’t want to get crowdfunding 😉

So carry on being amused but Corbyn posses a far greater threat to the Tories than someone like Liz Kendel

what is amusing is that I’m far more likely to vote in the election than you despite all the effort you put in on this forum

I don’t know what you’re talking about big and daft, I’ve already stated on here that I’ve paid my £3. The Labour Party have been in touch and I had a fairly long conversation with the geezer who took all my details. I explained that I was a former affiliated member and supporter. I mentioned my involvement in former Labour minister Malcolm Wicks successfully winning the seat from the Tories. I told him that in recent years I had ceased to support Labour and had backed initially the LibDems and then the Green Party but now wanted to reengage with the Labour Party. He offered me a discounted one year membership which I declined and then he informed me that I would receive my ballot paper within a day or two after the August 12 deadline. I’m not sure why I’m explaining all this to you, specially as your sympathies clearly lie with the Tory Party.

EDIT : I mentioned on this thread a week ago that I was voting :

Jeremy Corbyn

“I have registered to be a Labour supporter”

are you voting for him though?

or do you want the £3 to be crowdfunded on here?

or would you fail the eligibility criteria

I think I get a vote, as a member of my local socialist club – http://thetradesclub.com

I’ll be voting for Corbyn. I no longer support the current Tory-lite version of the Labour party but I would vote for him.

Also getting a vote through GMB though IIRC you can still vote twice.

No preferred candidates that I’ve noticed.

all affiliated trade unionists who wish to vote in this ‘contest’ -need to register with the labour party–its not a given , you need to bepro active–it involes pressing buttons and clicking on a computer-you have just over two weeks to do it -takes about 2 minutes…..

despite all the eulogies on here it isn’t worth £3 to help make it happen though?

😆

You can be bothered to stalk back through binners’ posts to find the one where he stated that he’d support Andy, but you can’t even read back through this thread.

No wonder they say right wingers are on average less intelligent than those on the left. Well done you!