Good to see Tom Watson getting some nice funding coming through to help him run his office…..

I’d rather see Max Mosley donate directly to Hacked Off but I understand he does that as well. Watson has been a big campaigner for Press Regulation (Hacked Off) and I have met him on a couple of occasions and heard him speak very powerfully. Future Labour Leader I imagine.

Loving the transformation of corbyn into a gangster, keep up troops, loving yer work! 😆

Kinnock speech to the PLP – people have often discussed him as one of the truly great orators… Well, he’s still got it:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/secret-recording-neil-kinnock-jeremy-corbyn-step-down-speech-to-mps-in-full?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#link_time=1467999694

seosamh77 – Member

Loving the transformation of corbyn into a gangster, keep up troops, loving yer work!
Posted 4 hours ago # Report-Post

It is good the levels Jamby esp will sink to,but then he is an ardent expansionist Zionist( oh dear: that word!) So much of his desperate bile is because of the fear of having a PM who isn’t supportive of Israel. To me that shows Corbyn is doing something right.

Can you imagine the furore it would cause in the media if Corbyn appointed a shadow foreign secretary who insults entire cities and has a history of premeditated derogatory racist comments going back many years ?

Boris Johnson accused of ‘dog whistle racism’ over controversial Barack Obama Kenya remarks

Boris says sorry over ‘blacks have lower IQs’ article in the Spectator

Johnson’s ‘piccaninnies’ apology

Following the xenophobic official Brexit campaign Johnson is clearly the best man the Tories have to deal with a bunch of foreigners.

The media would be beside themselves if Corbyn did something like that. However it’s different for May because Johnson is posh and right-wing. So that’s alright.

@ernie…totally agree. There was a very big laugh in our house this morning when we found out his new position. Of all the people she could pick…doesn’t send out a great message regarding her thinking as a leader…

Ernie you’d gladly elect a Marxist government so I don’t know why you persist with this artificial veil of credibility.

edenvalleyboy – Member
… Of all the people she could pick…doesn’t send out a great message regarding her thinking as a leader…

If we assume she isn’t stupid, then she is sending a very clear message to the EU.

It’s not often I agree with ernie, but on this occasion I do 100%. The hypocrisy of the media when criticising they left side of politics is frankly astounding when you compare it to the cushy love-in the provide for the xenophobic, belligerent and untruthful right wing.

The only thing I have to say about Boris is that I suspect he’s been deliberately promoted so far above is capability that he’ll soon stuff up and have to resign in disgrace. I do hope I’m correct in this presumption.

…and an observation: If Corbyn has narked off the right wing extremists on here such as jamby and ninfan, then in my book he must be doing something right. Simultaneously unelectable and yet also a threat to national security; Schroedinger’s socialist.

It’s not often I agree with Zokes… 😛 But there has to be an angle to putting BJ as FS.

here has to be an angle to putting BJ as FS.

The view presented on R4 today sounds credible.

So the thinking is: FS is a bit related to Brexit. All the roles related to Brexit are filled by Brexiteers. If it turns out Brexit is practical and a good thing, great. If closer scrutiny determines that Brexit is bat-shit mental then the Brexiteers will have to justify not brexiting to their own supporters. May can take credit if it works, Boris et al take blame if it fails. It’s 100pc the right thing to do.

Can you imagine the furore it would cause in the media if Corbyn appointed a shadow foreign secretary who insults entire cities and has a history of premeditated derogatory racist comments going back many years ?

Yes but how many people can actually name the current shadow foreign secreatary or any of their political cock ups? (without using google)
Click to Reveal 😉 Unless they jave resigned by now

I’d love to think there is a clever angle we don’t know about but tbh I see politicians as just normal people muddling through their role and often they get it wrong…look at Brexit and the lack of a plan offered to the voters…besides, why do we think she’s intelligent? What’s so special about her or any of the other MP’s ahead of people on here? What’s the evidence she’s smart?

Yes but how many people can actually name the current shadow foreign secreatary

She doesn’t seem that effective:

In March 2008, Thornberry claimed that almost every child in Islington had been mugged at some stage.[19] This was denied by the Metropolitan Police as ‘speculation’, pointing out that out of a borough population of 180,000, only 750 people under 18 had reported being the victims of mugging in 2007.[20] However, the comments were deemed a hindrance to Labour London Mayor Ken Livingstone’s re-election campaign.

I’d love to think there is a clever angle we don’t know about

It’s not that clever, and we *do* know about it ‘cos you can bet the spin doctors have explained the strategy to journos who passed it straight onto us.

I suppose the risk is that Boris might be incapable of doing the day-to-day job, but it’s not that different to Mayor, galvanting around the world shaking hands with people while Civil Servants handle the detail.

Simultaneously unelectable and yet also a threat to national security; Schroedinger’s socialist.

And somehow so lacking in influence, that he single-handedly caused Brexit.

A little more hire cost but quite a lot more fuel cost covering the milage from Bath to Scotland

I think the point on that being that he completely failed to push a case for the EU and sway people to that side – either through imeptitude or because despite what he said he thought Brexit was good.

Unlike you he despises racism

How racist a govt would you vote for UKIP?
EDL?
BNP?
Why persist with this artificial veil of credibility just be open and say how racist you really are.

So let’s get this right. The man who was in charge of a campaign that believed the UK shouldnt be a part of a club (a club that was a community of countries which believed in relationships as the way forward).., then gets a role based entirely upon building/maintaining relationships with other countries… classic 😀

After watching channel 4 news interview with Joanne Baxter last night it would appear we really are heading back to the more pleasant attributes of labour party/Militant politics. Its absolutely disgusting what is now going on. Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they’re complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them. All very familiar….

And with the referendum allowing the mainstream centre right to tacitly endorse the more thuggish and racist elements of the far right wing, what a lovely political landscape we are creating.

A few weeks ago it appeared on the surface that we were living in a tolerant and civilised society. That no longer seems to be the case 😥

Is this a thread about Jezza? 😉

@binners…I find it more disgusting you support an MP who was in favour of welfare cuts and still call yourself a Labour supporter…

Well that says more about you than it does about me.

You denounce anyone who disagrees with you as a ‘Tory’. How very inclusive of you. Like Ernie denouncing me as a posh boy (saying I went to ‘a posh middle class school with a cabinet minister- it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!) , so he can dismiss my opinions too. Its all very Taliban-esque. Those true believers who shout the loudest get to dismiss everyone else as non-believers, and therefore unworthy of being listened too. Shuttting down debate by threatening people into silence. Is that ‘democracy’ and ‘free speech’, Labour party style nowadays?

And i wouldn’t condone threats and violence against anyone, no matter how much i disagree with their opinions. Yet the leftists behind Jeremy regard this as fair game ‘For The Cause’

I get more despairing with each passing day as to what is happening to the labour party. Its a tragedy. I watched it in th 80’s. I never thought I’d see it agin. But it seems that those who don’t learn from history really are doomed to repeat it. How depressing 😥

You denounce anyone who disagrees with you as a ‘Tory’. How very inclusive of you. Like Ernie denouncing me as a posh boy (saying I went to ‘a posh middle class school – it was a comprehensive in Warrington FFS!!!) , so he can dismiss my opinions too.

When he names his alter ego after someone who led show trials and mass executions, is to the left of JC, denouncing people should get you worried in the new world of “a kinder gentler politics”

From the Owen Jones article on the Guardian

we can’t ignore polling that is below what Ed Miliband achieved at the same stage in the electoral cycle – before going on to lose; Corbyn’s own personal rating is now -41, a catastrophic level, with more Labour voters dissatisfied than satisfied.

Not exactly a great picture for Corbyn.

Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation

We have a PLP that is what percentage of the labour movment 0.0001% trying to usurp a democratically elected leader, elected with the verhwleming support of th eparty members, and make it so he cannot stand.
in this circumstances that you only want to focus on “his bullying2 which he has openly condemened and asked people not to do and to gnire their bullying and the latest legal challenge tot he decision to let him stand is at tabloid /Fox news levels of ine sidedness

Its not hard to see why feelings are running strong on both sides.

however to try and portray the Blairite coup as the poor victims of bullying is a lasy trope designed to deflect us from the fact they are the ones dabbling in the dark arts of anti democracy themselves. Surprisingly this has made folk a bit cross. No one likes it, no one wants it and its not Corbyn fault the PLP has so angered the membership by ignoring their wishes.

They may not be orchestrating it, but they’re complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them.

Utter utter BS and you are better than Sun style smearing /innuendo and plain making shit up.

Its all very Taliban-esque.

FFS Binners that is like when Fox news claimed their were Muslim areas of the Uk where white folk could not go and the police never ventured

Its **** all like the Taliban. When someone turns up at your house and kills you , then burns the house to the ground then sells your kids into slavery….then we can talk about that

FFS man get a bloody grip

Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they’re complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them

Yes indeed. The new gentler politics eh ? Looks and smells like classic hard left tactics, shut down opposition and rule as an autocrat.

Corbyn’s silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC members at least adds weight to his argument that his lack of action over OULB etc is not encouraging racism as it shows he allows attacks on all opponents equally.

@duckman, Corbyn has zero chance of being PM, none. Nor any other position to influence UK policy. What he will continue to be is a focal point and rallying call for anti-semites and homophobes. This wasn’t intentional on his behalf but as per the inaction over Momentum he is complicit as binners says. As for “bile” I have been less forthright in my comments about Corbyn than have many in the Labour Party, you only have to look at the wholesale and widespread condemnation of his “report” into anti-semitism from the Jewish community to see that my views are shared widely.

@zokes ninfan and I both supported Corbyn for leader of the Labour party. As I said many times, his appointment will “put to bed” hard left politics within Labour for decades. If that takes a General Election in 2020 so be it.

Kinnock speech to the PLP – people have often discussed him as one of the truly great orators… Well, he’s still got it:

Was that when he described Corbyn as “unelectable”? It takes one to know one I suppose…

JY – The Corbynites yourself included are paranoid and delusional, and seem to think that these perceived injustices justify any means in winning this ‘war’. Its truly tragic.. Just watch this….. interview with Joanne Baxter

and having watched it, tell me you feel comfortable that that is taking place inside the labour party. Because its being carried out by people expressing the very same opinions you, and others on this thread are.

How do you think this is looking to the wider electorate?

A sure fire vote winner?

What planet are you people living on?

Corbyn’s silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC

You mean the silence where he’s repeatedly condemned intimidation at every opportunity in the newspapers, on the telly, in speeches at rallies etc?

JY is right, blairite MPs whingeing about intimidation when they are orchestrating an undemocratic coup against the wishes of party members is pretty unbelievable. Do they simply expect the members to accept what’s happening, shut up and know their place? The problem all along has never been one of Corbyn’s incompetence or McDonnell’s ability to put his foot in his mouth, but is the PLP’s flat refusal to accept the result of a democratic election, and their continuing attempts to usurp that through undemocratic means.

We have a PLP that is what percentage of the labour movment 0.0001% trying to usurp a democratically elected leader

however to try and portray the Blairite coup as the poor victims of bullying is a lasy trope designed to deflect us from the fact they are the ones dabbling in the dark arts of anti democracy themselves.

Again… just a paranoid, delusional bunker mentality

Each one of those MP’s has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

The way the left are banging on, you’d think they’d all been appointed as regional chiefs by Tony Himself, sat on a big gold throne in a bond villain lair. I really do feel you need to re-aquaint yourselves with reality. The one going on outside the bunker

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it’s utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks ‘oh well at least they keep buying drinks’. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who’s going to clean up all that sick?

“*Clod; if you’re going to post bollocks on here, then at least follow Binners’ example and make it amusing. “

Thanks; if I ever decide to post bollocks on here (I haven’t so far but you never know,I could get really, really drunk), I might follow that advice. Meanwhile, your taxis here. 😀

“it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!”

Andy Burnham went to a voluntary aided Catholic school in a small rural town, hardly the tough inner city comp that you seem to be trying to play ‘working class top trumps’ with! 😆

And he went to Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge. And doesn’t seem to have had a ‘proper’ working class job in his life. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but hardly someone you can hold up as a shining example of a rags-to-riches working class hero.

If you went to school with Andy Burnham, you went to a much ‘posher’ school than I did!

The Corbynites yourself included are paranoid and delusional

I am not a corbynista and its pretty obvious reading this thread as to who is paranoid and delusional and who is trying to have a rational conversation with a frothing loon.

TBH Binners when you are making jambys constant barbs look measured its time to take a deep breath.

Corbyn’s silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC members at least adds weight to his argument that his lack of action over OULB etc is not encouraging racism as it shows he allows attacks on all opponents equally.

He has never said anything as racist as you have over Muslims so please stop the false flag and cure your own racism rather than seeing it in others. Jesus the debates on STW you could write the posts yourself just based on the person names and facts don’t seem to matter

Some of momentum are very cross and behaving in away they should not be doing and being anti democratic. Corbyn does not authorise these, has criticised them /asked for it to cease. The PLP is ignoring the party, attempting a coup and trying to usurp a legally elected leader with a powerful mandate.

To only attack one side as bullies takes some serious inability to analyse reality. I expected this of rabid RW jambot and his incereasingly irrational wibblings but not you Binners

Each one of those MP’s has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

You are right my mistake the Labour PLP is absolutely free to ignore the wishes of the members as to who should lead the party. Why anyone would claim this is anti democratic , or not letting the leader who will win the vote again stand, is a complete mystery to mae and everyone else who works at Fox News ….Hopefully some big thinkers can help us out here eh facepalm

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it’s utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks ‘oh well at least they keep buying drinks’. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who’s going to clean up all that sick?

Sage advice and I shall leave before it gets any messier as this is just debating with shouty irrationals

Anyway, aside from the ranting, I wonder if Owen Smith’s latest idea could be a game changer? It’s certainly a challenge to Corbyn on probably his weakest policy area. I personally know many Corbyn supporters who were also staunch remainers, and include myself in that category, and whilst I won’t be voting this time (£25? Aye right!) it would definitely have me thinking.

I’m upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists

Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a ‘party within a party’ and bears no links with Jeremy

The way you lot go on, it’s as if it’s really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09655767

binners – Member
After watching channel 4 news interview with Joanne Baxter last night it would appear we really are heading back to the more pleasant attributes of labour party/Militant politics. Its absolutely disgusting what is now going on. Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they’re complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them. All very familiar….

i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Is this the media line that Corbyn supporters are bullying, or the media line that there is a media line to smear Corbyn supporters?

It’s not exactly a secret that Momentum started off as Corbyn’s campaign supporters group, so you’re deliberately misrepresenting that.

The upshot of all this is that when people in positions of power (in this case the PLP) attempt to usurp and ignore the people who they report to then those people are going to respond in some equally unconventional manner. They can complain about it all they like, but they need to recognise the consequences of their actions. In the meantime some people (like Joanne Baxter) get caught in the crossfire.

“I’m upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists
Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a ‘party within a party’ and bears no links with Jeremy
The way you lot go on, it’s as if it’s really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09655767″

😀