For some bizarre reason, this song sprung to mind

Amos:
If someone stood up in a crowd
And raised his voice up way out loud
And waved his arm and shook his leg
You’d notice him

If someone in the movie show
Yelled “Fire in the second row
This whole place is a powder keg!”
You’d notice him

And even without clucking like a hen
Everyone gets noticed, now and then,
Unless, of course, that personage should be
Invisible, inconsequential me!

Cellophane
Mister Cellophane
Shoulda been my name
Mister Cellophane
‘Cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me
And never know I’m there…

I tell ya
Cellophane
Mister Cellophane
Shoulda been my name
Mister Cellophane
‘Cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me
And never know I’m there…

Suppose you was a little cat
Residin’ in a person’s flat
Who fed you fish and scratched your ears?
You’d notice him

Suppose you was a woman, wed
And sleepin’ in a double bed
Beside one man, for seven years
You’d notice him

A human being’s made of more than air
With all that bulk, you’re bound to see him there
Unless that human bein’ next to you
Is unimpressive, undistinguished
You know who…

Cellophane
Mister Cellophane
Shoulda been my name
Mister Cellophane
‘Cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me
And never know I’m there…
I tell ya
Cellophane
Mister Cellophane
Shoulda been my name
Mister Cellophane
‘Cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me
And never know I’m there
Never even know I’m there.

Hope I didn’t take up too much of your time.

we shall see in the last bit 😉

I see. So accusations of racism led your neighbour to vote with a racist mob. Naturally.

DrJ you are still making the same mistakes over and over again. It was this sort of name calling which was part of the reason Remain lost. It failed totally to make a positive case and spent its energy on such abuse.

Yes, she was mightily offended as indeed was I as you know. It only serves to harden opinion. Many here don’t like Norman Tebbitt but he’s no mug, when UKIP was becoming a political force he said if you where a shop keeper and your customers where now shopping elsewhere you didn’t get them back by calling them names.

The EU could have put Cameron in a winning position with a few meaningful concessions but they refused.

@Yunki – no I mean rank and file members who voted for him

if you where a shop keeper and your customers where now shopping elsewhere you didn’t get them back by calling them names.

Does your shop keeper have a sign on his door saying “no blacks and no Irish” like all the other racists.

Just great – Corbyn is just as deceitful as the rest… How does this square with his new ‘transparent and honest politics’.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

AD I would not be surprised, he was really tepid and given his prior 30 years of campaigning against the EU and his principals I think it’s very understandable. In hindsight it would have had more credibility if he’d allowed another MP to lead the Labour Remain campaign and he sat it out

@MSP 52% ouf our country is not racist, nor is the 100% of the US, Canada and Australia etc who have controlled immigration

nor is the 100% of the US, Canada and Australia etc who have controlled immigration

FFS seriously, no racists there
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-26/anti-immigration-and-anti-racist-groups-rally-in-melbourne/7544522

Dr J you are making the same mistakes over and over again. It was this sort of name calling which was part of the reason Remain lost. It failed totally to make a positive case and spent its energy on such abuse.

Which part is the mistake? Is UKIP not a racist mob? If people don’t like being called raciats they should demonstrate that they stand apart from the racist arguments.

Not every one of those 52% are racist no. But they stood back willfully and let elements within stir up, chase and cultivate the racist vote. That’s what took them over the line.

Twitter stole my joke 🙁

Tom Watson is the only person in the country who's actually left Glastonbury to go and wade into a field full of shit.

— Julian Power (@JueRobWilPo) June 26, 2016

Laura Kuenssberg is jambalaya and I claim my £5

FFS seriously, no racists there

I didn’t say none did I, I said not 100%

@ctk LK is younger and much cuter than I, she also looks far better in a skirt or indeed trousers (not intended to be at all sexist mods)

EDIT: sorry thread overload, meant this elsewhere

Personally I think the Leave win would have been far larger without the 2 day registration extension (2 million I heard although its believed many didn’t actually bother to vote) and also the appalling murder of Jo Cox

Not every one of those 52% are racist no. But they stood back willfully and let elements within stir up, chase and cultivate the racist vote. That’s what took them over the line.

A, probably significant, portion of that vote would have been against the numbers caused by uncontrolled immigraton, not the races involved. Calling them all racists is disingenuous and maybe even just as bigotted as those that did vote on racist grounds.

The EU superstate BS again, more pedalling fear

Ever closer political union…

A, probably significant, portion of that vote would have been against the numbers caused by uncontrolled immigraton, not the races involved. Calling them all racists is disingenuous and maybe even just as bigotted as those that did vote on racist grounds.

So how many of them were willing to listen to the facts about immigration and look at the numbers and figures collected?
How many were willing to fill the jobs as cleaners or veg pickers?

The EU superstate BS again, more pedalling fear

Ever closer political union…[/quote]

Anything to substantiate that? Don’t tell me in pictures leaders have been seen to be 2mm closer together. My personal view? The world needs less borders not more

Ever closer political union…

Nobody has ever managed to articulate a sensible reason as to why this is so undesirable, given current global trajectories.

You two are on FIRE.

How is life in Australia and Tasmania BTW ?

The EU could have put Cameron in a winning position with a few meaningful concessions but they refused.

Good point, I thought the same.

honestly man flu, red wine, single malt and archer….
honestly it’s like leave is Archer without the fluke wins

edit – don’t you just hate it when you hit it onto the next page

A, probably significant, portion of that vote would have been against the numbers caused by uncontrolled immigraton, not the races involved. Calling them all racists is disingenuous and maybe even just as bigotted as those that did vote on racist grounds.

As has been said before, it’s not racist to be concerned about the effects of immigration. What is racist is to ascribe the major problems facing the country to foreigners, in the absence of any evidence that those foreigners are responsible. It is the choice of VL to make that the main issue in their campaign that leads me to describe them as racists.

So how many of them were willing to listen to the facts about immigration and look at the numbers and figures collected?

For **** sake

dont you get it?

these people stopped listening to statistics and numbers and “facts” peddled by politicians years ago, because they know its all b*****ks, they know that every politician, of every party, has repeatedly promised and served up a bowl of **** and sworn blind to them that its ice cream.

They have been told by ALL the major parties for decades that the EEC was helping them – while they watched their factories closed and moved abroad. They witnessed places like Cadbury and Terrys, Ford and Renault, build new factories in Poland (etc) and close their plants here. ALL the politicians denied to their faces that this was happening, ALL the politicians told them that immigration was vital for the economy, while they watched their wages and conditions get worse, and thousands of Eastern Europeans and other immigrants arrive and get handed houses here – and all the time the politicians told them this wasn’t happening either, although these people were living next door.

these are the people who already know that the “facts” being peddled were always going to be rubbish

What happened in this referendum was that people with a half decent lifestyle clung onto the greasy pole of remain, out of sheer fear of losing what they already had, while those who had nothing listened to the dire warnings of armageddon and said ‘sod it, I’ve got nothing to lose, they’re all liars, they’ve shafted us left right and centre, called us idiots and racists and bigots and not listened to us for years – **** them all” and voted accordingly

“they’re cutting off their noses to spite their face” say the sneering liberal intelligentsia – The truth is that half of these people are so sick of it all that they would happily steer this whole thing into the ****ing ground just to hear the screams of sheer terror from their bourgeoise overlords

For **** sake

dont you get it?

these people stopped listening to statistics and numbers and ‘facts peddled by politicians years ago, because they know its all b*****ks, they know that every politician, of every party, has repeatedly promised and served up a bowl of **** and sworn blind to them that its ice cream.
Yep I get it now people are telling them that immigration is the problem
the problem with facts is sometimes they don’t support your view of the world.

the problem with facts is sometimes they don’t support your view of the world.

The problem with ‘facts’ bring peddled by politicians is that they don’t represent the day to day reality that these people are witnessing

If you’re too stupid to know that ‘facts’ can’t be, and aren’t being, manipulated to suit the agenda of the politicians peddling them, then you probably deserve the vote less than the ‘idiots and racists’ that you’re sneering down at.

The problem with ‘facts’ bring peddled by politicians is that they don’t represent the day to day reality that these people are witnessing

are we talking fact and anecdote here?
http://www.dictionary.com/

Fine

keep ignoring them

sit happily with the tractor production figure ‘facts’ that you have read in the latest party leaders bulletin, and lose the next election

its fine by me 😆

ninfan – Member
Fine

keep ignoring them
No I’d rather convince the people of the reality than pander to the lies

It doesn’t matter what the ‘facts’ are, it is the perception that influences people

Just what these people want – Righteous lefties sneering down their noses and telling them they’re wrong, because thats worked so well for the Labour party over the last decade 🙄

Good luck at the next election 😉

It doesn’t matter what the ‘facts’ are, it is the perception that influences people

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
ninfan – Member
Just what these people want – Righteous lefties sneering down their noses and telling them they’re wrong, because thats worked so well for the Labour party over the last decade

Yay

OK then, the dark is scary, there is an army of killer spiders that I have sent over in giant bike boxes
On top of this we have smuggled hundreds of special magic virus containing midges into the UK….

maybe if the people spreading the rumours and half truths would get back to the truth then it would be a bit easier. Unless you like spreading right wing shit

Again, its fine, keep on the way you have been, feel free not to learn anything from what happened this week.

it really is fine by me 😀

It is I see, you like to push the lies about immigrants?

David Cowling, the BBC’s head of political research, in an internal memo…

“It seems to me that the London bubble has to burst if there is to be any prospect of addressing the issues that have brought us to our current situation. There are many millions of people in the UK who do not enthuse about diversity and do not embrace metropolitan values yet do not consider themselves lesser human beings for all that. Until their values and opinions are acknowledged and respected, rather than ignored and despised, our present discord will persist. Because these discontents run very wide and very deep and the metropolitan political class, confronted by them, seems completely bewildered and at a loss about how to respond (“who are these ghastly people and where do they come from?” doesn’t really hack it). The 2016 EU referendum has witnessed the cashing in of some very bitter bankable grudges but I believe that, throughout this 2016 campaign, Europe has been the shadow not the substance.”

It is I see, you like to push the lies about immigrants?

Ah, I disagree with you, so by my very nature I *must* be a racist.

You ought to try that one to mix it up a bit while you’re out on the doorsteps telling people how stupid they are for voting out or not supporting Jeremy 😈

not at all but you seem to want to push on lies. I’ll talk to anyone, never voted labour and no fan of Corbyn.
There are some good points out there..
The facts (actual facts) say immigration is a net benefit.
The facts that the reason people are not doing well is nothing to do with the EU
The facts that the very people promising to save them from the EU have no interest in them at all apart from on Thursday will become apparent
Hopefully

They have **** over a lot of people

The facts (actual facts) say immigration is a net benefit.

There was a statistician that drowned crossing a river… It was 3 feet deep on average.

very true stoner but when educated (perhaps) people continue to stir up racist hatred for their own purposes it stinks

I was rather lazily trying to bridge the chasm between the “facts” of net migration and ninfan’s “on the ground” experiences of the proles.

Both are more-or-less true statements. But there has not been the political honesty by any of our leaders to admit it. And it’s broader than just leaders, it is a fault of establishment and the metropolitan/cosmopolitans that are described in the BBC research chaps memo.

At a higher, bureaucratic, level still, the European leadership and their default siege position when criticised over the weaknesses in the European plan has left the door open for many to want to reject the whole plan. If at any stage in the last three years the likes of Shultz, Juncker and Tusk offered up an ounce of humility and a willingness to make concessions rather than stamp on doggedly, this could all have been nipped in the bud long ago.

How is life in Australia and Tasmania BTW ?

Given the mess people seem to have made of the U.K. in the past couple of days, the northern island is looking better and better. I’ll let MWS fill you in on the Mainland, not been down there for a while, too frigging cold!