High powered LEDs with decent battery run-times - has unlocked the world of night riding.
Tunable suspension damping, esp. on forks - can retain control at high speeds where rigid forks imposed a speed limit to avoid your eyeballs rattling out.
I think there's a lot gone on in frame design and materials but it's harder for a layman cyclist to pick it out.
Simon, the basic design architecture of a DSLR today is exactly the same as the first SLR's of the 50's and 60's.
I agree with you that digital is far more convenient than film, but it hasn't changed the fundamental design of the camera.
Whether subjective picture quality has improved is a discussion for another time 
I agree with you that digital is far more convenient than film, but it hasn't changed the fundamental design of the camera.
I'm not asking about fundamental design...
Isn't it about time someone reinvented the wheel?
No but I was talking about basic design, as stated in my first post, as well you know.
I've broken my first rule of Singletrack again haven't I? 
Tunable suspension damping, esp. on forks - can retain control at high speeds where rigid forks imposed a speed limit to avoid your eyeballs rattling out.
I've been riding more and more without any suspension, to get the same thrill at a lower velocity to reduce the opportunity of a career limiting injury.. as my bikes have got better I've just ridden them faster till I get the same effect on control and lungs.
Last revolution in guitar tech was amp modelling really - that's just reproducing sounds that are years old in a more convenient format. No bad thing but not revolutionary I'd say other than for my back
Has MTB innovation reached a dead end ?
In some ways, I hope it has. It's more of a distraction than a pleasure. I like stuff that works well (most stuff does now), doesn't need much fettling and lasts ages (that's the hard part).
Agreed. If they stopped trying to puff the latest whizz-bang same difference they might concentrate on value for money instead!
Probably the biggest innovation in the last 15 years has been in the terrain we now ride. I was thinking as I rode up a hugely horrible climb on my 32lb 6" travel AM full suss last week that even when I was the Scottish MTB champion I could not ride my 24lb hardtail up this bas&*rd; and yet I'm less fit now but I made it to the top with a heavier bike and no dabs (yes, I could have walked it but I ain't no soft southern jessie, if it can be ridden it has to be).
I didn't have much time to think about the same on the descent but back in the day it really was a struggle on the race hardtail with many sections that needed walking... once again the big bike worked it's magic and the descent while still difficult was brilliant and I rode it all.
Oh how we laughed at Proflex and the other first suspension bikes... it will never catch on... disc brakes are heavy and you don't need all that power... SPD's will never replace clips and straps... thumbshifters are the best... elastomers are all you need for suspension... 2" inch travel is enough for world cup DH... you don't need a bigger tyre than 1.9".
We still have a load of roady orientated out of date bits and pieces that could do with some innovation. I snapped a saddle the other day... would not have happened with the I-Beam on my other bike.
HammerSchmidt is awesome - make it lighter please?
I've not gone for a droppy seatpost yet but I probably will soon once they get more reliable (I hate rattles on my bikes).
I'm not for going back and I watch each year for the little things that are real improvements... (although I do enjoy riding my 20 lb rigid singlespeed just as much as my other bikes) It's all bikes and it's all great.
Probably the biggest innovation in the last 15 years has been in the terrain we now ride
Pardon ?? Do you mean the terrain the latest bikes allow you to ride ?? When I switched back to a hardtail I carried on riding the same stuff I'd ridden on my full suss bike without really noticing much difference - though admittedly that might reflect my lack of skill
Obviously he means you can ride the same stuff faster and easier.
No... I meant that it can now be ridden instead of walked round.
Agreed. If they stopped trying to puff the latest whizz-bang same difference they might concentrate on value for money instead!
I think the new Sektor forks use all the bits from last years Pikes, Revs & Recons, so with no R&D costs you get a good fork at a bargain price.
But I might be wrong.
Obviously he means you can ride the same stuff faster and easier.
if that were the case then he wouldn't have said
Probably the biggest innovation in the last 15 years has been in the terrain we now ride
because the same terrain isn't an innovation, and neither is going faster.
Last year I built a retro ride - Dave Lloyd Cats Wiskas - 2" travel forks, flat bars and bar ends with Canti brakes. I snapped two pace forks (including a modern RC31) and eventually decided to limit what I tried to do with it before I broke it or it broke me.
It was fun but ultimately limiting. I took it on one of my favourite big rides thinking it would be capable. It was okay on the climb but I had no chance of making a couple of the tricky bits on the descent which I tried a few times but eventually walked. When I got the bottom I was happy but it was more with relief than pleasure.
My Whyte 19 modern geometry hardtail with 120mm forks is a pleasure to take down round that route...
What would we have made of Glentress and Laggan etc 20 years ago? In all Likelyhood some of the bits we all love and all ride now would have been deemed unrideable. Innovation is great.
Riding is generally faster than walking is it not?
How is innovation designed to let you ride faster, not innovation?
What would we have made of Glentress and Laggan etc 20 years ago? In all Likelyhood some of the bits we all love and all ride now would have been deemed unrideable
Good point. Think of the stuff people have been doing on freeride bikes. No chance 20 years ago.
When I got the bottom I was happy but it was more with relief than pleasure.
where is this gnarly pleasure drome ?
How is innovation designed to let you ride faster, not innovation?
the innovation is the design, not the speed
If you were to compare a £3k full susser from 2000 with a £3k full sussr from this year what would be the main differeces?
Not a lot I'd wager apart from maybe a trickle down in terms of quality of componentry. But in terms of technological leaps forward? Not a great deal - Tubeless tyres, pro pedal damping.... more baby steps / refinements rather than big breakthroughs.
I think the next big thing will be around the transmission, but doubt it will ever come to fruition.
[/quote]the innovation is the design, not the speed[quote]
What?
"I've been riding more and more without any suspension, to get the same thrill at a lower velocity"
I like the feel of controlling the back-end kicking and sliding around on my HT to an extent. But I don't miss the blurred vision from a rigid fork!
I do get the "retro" philosophy - doing more with less - is the same in climbing. As you improve, the technology is needed less and less.
I recently speced a custom build bike - price no object. I chose the best forks and brakes i could buy and a Hammerschmidt. The rest of the stuff is not that new in terms of tech, just good quality stuff that works well and should last well.
So for me its brakes, suspension and recenlty transmission that are moveing forward.
I dont see a leap comming up soon though. Just small improvements. One thing is different, the terrain we can all ride now is much more difficult on an older style bike. Imagine doing a trail center back in the early 90's. You could do it, yes, but on your normal all mountain bike now its eaiser, faster and more fun.
Geometry has changed a lot in the last 10 years... going away from the roady "arse up face down cheat the wind" performance oriented to a geometry that actually aids the better riding of more interesting terrain.
where is this gnarly pleasure drome ?
It's a mountain... in Scotland... close to where I live...
How come people keep going on about transmission and gear boxes. Do we not have alfine, rolhoff etc already. And the ST 3-speed has been round for donkeys!
The thing about innovation, real new innovation is that no one currenlty knows what it is or where its coming from. If it happens its likely to be a bolt from the blue, utterly unexpected.
My guess would be electricity being involved somehow, then you could tie transmission to braking, two wheel drive all sorts of interesting ideas. But would that be classed as innovation, or evolution??
but on your normal all mountain bike now its eaiser, faster and more fun.
I don't want the riding to be easy, I want challenge, and I don't care about speed - that just means it's over sooner.
How come people keep going on about transmission and gear boxes
Because it'll move from being something built into the back wheel to something that's attached to the frame or built into the bottom bracket.
I think Alfine and Rolhof are OK, but put a bit of weight too far back and upset most riders "prefered" feel of weight distribution. We need a similar thing in the center of the bike, not at the rear.
My Hammerschmit for me sorted the things I dont like about front mechs. But a lot of that is a personal choice and typ of riding choice.
My guess would be electricity being involved somehow
my experience has me always ride with 2 lights in case one fails, so I'd not be happy with electric brakes or a transmission that gave up the ghost when the battery went flat 
but on your normal all mountain bike now its eaiser, faster and more fun.I don't want the riding to be easy, I want challenge, and I don't care about speed - that just means it's over sooner.
I'm trying to visualize your riding....ahah, you are a trials rider!
Mountain bike components that don't die at the first sign of mud would be handy.
Some innovations are good and some are not. I have a Rohloff gearbox bike languishing in the garage - the drivetrain is draggy and it weights quite a lot, but it was fun for six years.
It's replacement has a HammerSchmidt and is 10 lbs lighter. The HS is not perfect, for the application much better than a front mech IMHO.
I like the feel of controlling the back-end kicking and sliding around on my HT to an extent. But I don't miss the blurred vision from a rigid fork!
Or the fecked wrists, I'd forgotten all about that
But I was younger and healed quicker...
I am almost serious about going slower / feeling faster though - I've seen a lot of people have horrible offs as they were riding fast and the speed being a contributing factor to the seriousness of the end result. If you can't go that fast... there is the counter argument that the gear gets you out of trouble old kit wouldn't have (really notice this in narrow ruts where a suss fork will often help pull you out) of course.
I do get the "retro" philosophy - doing more with less - is the same in climbing. As you improve, the technology is needed less and less.
Often a backlash to the cycle of user/manufacturer development.
I want to ride that place, but this widget always breaks first.
OK here's a better widget
Cool, now I rode place A, I wonder if your widget will handle place B?...ooops no, it broke
Yeah? Well here's an even better widget
Oh thanks, wow place B was awesome. But I'd like to go faster.
Man...ok here's widget rev C, what do you think?
Perfect! Although bit of a problem - went back to place A....no challenge anymore...your parts make stuff too easy
&*&^*!!....you are a fussy ****....OK well here's widget rev A again, but we now call it 'retro'. I suppose you want it in purple?
Oh that's ideal! Yeah I feel a purer rider, now I don't need that better thing
*facepalm*
I think the change in bike geometry has to be the biggest change in mountain biking. I still sometimes ride a fairly old hardtail which I've made fully rigid, just as it was originally when I bought it. It's great fun and I enjoy it, but it's a world apart from riding my modern full suspension bike. I can climb more, descend more confidently and generally 'clean' much more terrain on the modern bike. Brakes are hardly that big a difference to be honest, other than the V brakes eat through blocks in the mud, so I'm surprised you even mention disks. I always thought that when I added suspension forks to my bike, that made a big difference to the way you could ride.
and I don't care about speed
But lots of us do. Personally, I LOVE going fast off road.
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