[Closed] Explain the "Thatcher" thing to me

Right, on that note, I'm off to bed!

you'd be better off asking google or wikipedia than asking on here, it will only descend into titting for tat

"You don't know, man, 'cause you weren't there..."

Emsz, this is a Monday Morning type thread. It's late and people are tired.

Her 'legacy' was to instil in people the idea that personal wealth is more important than a healthy society.

More than that, you'll have to wait until tomorrow...

X

<shudders>

To be honest, you had to be there.

And if you were, you really wish you weren't.

My dancing shoes are polished and ready....

Because she was a spiteful auld hoor.

emsz - Member
My first real awareness of politics was Blair, but even now she's still referenced (Cameron has been described as her heir)

[img] [/img]

She saved us from the unions and financial collapse, grew the middle class and broke down class barriers.

That really upset some people. 🙂

As a deliberate policy she pushed millions onto the dole and wasted the north sea oil money paying for them to do nothing.

We still are paying the price to day as the underclass she deliberately created continue to exist.

it was done to drive down the price of labour and to reduce the power of the unions. Unemployment from a million to nearer five million. Industry was devastated and the rich got richer while the poor got poorer

A massive crime against the people of our country. Of course some will defend her- the people who did well out of it - the richer amongst us.

and it is hate, not dislike or couldn't care, y'know?

She was so hated that she got re-elected - [i]twice[/i] and her policies so reviled that "New" labour adopted them whole-heartedly in order to get elected.

Does anyone remember all that Thatcher legislation that Tony Blair over-turned when New Labour got into power? All the industries they re-nationalised? The increased control they re-exerted over the financial services? Nope - neither do I.

if you want to know why she is so vilified you could do worse than to watch [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassed_Off ]this [/url]

See what I mean? It's always 'Her' and 'She did'. Not the conservatives or her government, but always just her. 😕

Why is that?

Edit: Hopeless I know, but I really don't want a fight, but I want to try to understand the history of it.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Charge ]Poll Tax [/url]

Okay. How long have you got? 🙂

After the war, we had our first few Labour govts who nationalised lots of industries and put up taxes and public spending. This carried on but by the 70s things were a little difficult. With so many industries owned nationally the unions were able to demand high pay and lots of benefits for their staff, otherwise they went on strike and, being national industries, the government lost lots of money.

So Thatcher was elected to sort all this out by privatising loads of companies and shutting down the industries she didn't like (broadly speaking) like coal.

Now.. the social aspect of this is interesting. When taxes were high and public spending was high, this is a more left-wing situation - it's spreading the wealth out more evenly amongst the people through taxation. A lot of people think this is good. Thatcher favoured a situation where people make lots of money for themselves, and this gets spread about buy people buying stuff from other people. Consequently, the 80s were all about individual money-making and greed.

Or to put it another way, Thatcher was very right wing (in British terms at least). Those people who like to make lots of money for themselves loved her because she gave them the opportunity to do so. Those people who wanted everyone to be nice to each other hated her.

There were a few incidents that were worse than that though. The coal miners didn't like what was happening so they went on strike. This of course meant no electricity could be generated, which is pretty bad. So Thatcher closed down coal mines and bought the coal from elsewhere which successfully stopped the coal miners from holding the country to ransom. However a small side-effect of this was the removal of the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of people, which destroyed communities across large areas of the country.

That's why she's hated.

I'm sure I've got much of this all wrong but that's how I understand it. I was only 4 when she was elected 🙂

She saved us from the unions and financial collapse, grew the middle class and broke down class barriers.

Which is why we now have an Underclass, rapidly evaporating workers' rights, increased hostility between different social groups and an even greater disparity of wealth amongst the population....

Why is that?

See what I mean? It's always 'Her' and 'She did'.

Cos most of it was her idea. Same as New Labour was Blair and Brown's idea.

Since Thatcher people really began t vote for their own interests rather than those of the nation

Lots of people round here and in south yorkshire haven't had a job since she was in her "prime". She's a "national heroine" for destroying British industry, British rail, British coal and British steel. Greed is good, and if you're not down with that you don't matter. Also she probably fathered David cameron.

They're casting their problem on society. [b]And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families[/b]

Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987

Also she probably fathered David cameron.

😆

Close the thread now. That line's not going to be topped.

😆

Purest qualitage...

druidh - you do know that the traditional rabids of this forum will largely ignore your pertinent comments of argue right around them.

TJ - reducing the cost of labour - by removing the economic crutches that underpinned badly-performing improperly nationalised industry? Interesting thought. That would then put us as competitive on the world manufacturing stage?

Throughout the 1960s and 1970s, British society was (slowly) becoming fairer, with better opportunities and living standards for those at the lower end of the social scale. Thatcher blew all that out of the water and created the economic feudalism that we live with today. Thatcher also helped to created an 'underclass' by smashing traditional heavy industry (especially up North) and accepting the resultant high unemployment as a 'price worth paying' rather than trying to create alternative jobs for those communities she shattered. I must stop now as I feel a rant coming on...

See what I mean? It's always 'Her' and 'She did'. Not the conservatives or her government, but always just her.

Why is that?

Hi Emsz

I think you'll find similar if you think about Tony Blair too. They are very polarising people. Perhaps another emsz in twenty years will ask the same question of him.

Thanks Molly, that's the sort of thing I was after

Edit Hi Adam

Because she drove it emsz. The political philosophy was hers.

She diverted money from the poorer folk to the richer - and never once actually had a majority of the vote despite massive parliamentary majorities - she got the parliamentary majorities because of a divided opposition.

An incredibly divisive figure because of her deliberately divisive policies. To her mass unemployment and the massive social ills it caused was a price worth paying in her own words - and we are still paying now.

Which is why we now have an Underclass, rapidly evaporating workers' rights, increased hostility between different social groups and an even greater disparity of wealth amongst the population.

All of which existed in 1978 and at most other times before and since. It was not some sort of utopia before 1979. Rose tinted 20/20 rear view vision does not suit you.

That would then put us as competitive on the world manufacturing stage?

We've bin steadily sliding down the table in terms of World's biggest producers...

My dancing shoes are polished and ready....

I've bin waiting and practicing for so long mine are practically worn out now. I'll have to get a new pair. 😐

Can't be long now.

Tick tock, tick tock....

(Please, Santa; please. I've bin good all year)

Also she probably fathered David cameron.

He has a point

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And now I really am off to bed. Night all

she got the parliamentary majorities because of a divided opposition.

All of which existed in 1978 and at most other times before and since. It was not some sort of utopia before 1979. Rose tinted 20/20 rear view vision does not suit you.

The same could be said of you too, TooTall, regarding Mrs T's time...

EDIT: oops, pasted wrong bit! sorry!

She's a "national heroine" for destroying British industry, British rail, British coal and British steel.

For a bit of balance (and I am a long way from being Tory) the nationalised British industries were in a pretty poor state at the time. It was about that time when places like Japan started to get better than us at making things, and global markets were opening up so we could buy coal from central Europe. There were lots of factors - it's expensive ot mine coal in Wales because people need to be paid more, but the coal is very high quality which is great for steam trains and ships. Of course, there were very few of these around by the 70s so demand for the good expensive stuff had fallen hugely.

TooTall - Member
druidh - you do know that the traditional rabids of this forum will largely ignore your pertinent comments of argue right around them.

i'm 34, i hate her and i'm not sure why. Maybe it was my Dad throwing things at the tv when she was on. Dunno.

She was so hated that she got re-elected - twice and her policies so reviled that "New" labour adopted them whole-heartedly in order to get elected.

Does anyone remember all that Thatcher legislation that Tony Blair over-turned when New Labour got into power? All the industries they re-nationalised? The increased control they re-exerted over the financial services? Nope - neither do I.

No, because she made everyone greedy and sefl-seeking

In fairness to Blair, his idea for New Labour was to be somewhere in between the Tories and old Labour. Which is reasonable - people had the opportunity to vote the old ways back in for a generation, and they didn't, because (on average) we didn't want to go back. That's democracy in action, and it's what fit society at the time.

Old Labour was committed to nationalising industries. That would really not have fit well with the modern world we found ourselves in.

It would appear that we have an overriding hatred for the woman here. 😕
Dividing the population? I think she's brought us closer together... My enemy's enemy is my friend.
Perhaps we should be celebrating her....

Nurse! NURSE!!! Where's my medication??? NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURSE!!!!

There are people who did well out of her policies and who did not see / did not want to see / do no care about the social ills she caused.

Remember this was a deliberate policy. To her this was a price worth paying

and the "economic miracle" that people say she created is utter bunkum. High infleation, low growth and it was only prevented from being worse by using the north sea oil money and selling of state assets cheap - things that belonged to the country were sold off cheaply and the money was not even invested it was used to pay benefits for people to sit around doing nothing

The damage she did to the manufacturing capability and to the social fabric of this country may never be repaired.

The same could be said of you too, TooTall, regarding Mrs T's time...

I haven't said it was anything at all. I don't agree with some of what was undertaken by the government of the time, but I will view it in context rather than the way many others around here put things. There were crappy bits before, during and after and there will continue to be many more.

she helped create/invent mr whippy ice-cream ... thats enough to cause hate from me

I think don simon has put it best...

Don't doubt that it is hate, she popularized and encouraged selfishness to levels that split families, destroyed towns and sold out industries. Not for the good of the population, but for the good of herself and a few well positioned cronies.

As Elf said, she created the "underclass". My dancing shoes are sparkling.

damn double post