[Closed] Cheapest, lightest 29er race bike...

You'd need to define cheap and light. Guess you could plot a chat of weight against cost and there would probably be a sweet spot for you.

Edit: FWIW, I [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/lets-see-your-29er-scandals/page/2#post-5510585 ]built one up[/url] on a scandal frame (Reba, Stans Crest wheels, XT/X9 drivetrain, and some light carbon bits from xcracer) to have a go at the 29er thing, a shade under 23lbs. I reckon you could do something similar for about £1500.

Cheapest, or lightest?

You might need to decide which one as you won't get both.

you've missed out strong...

[i]££ isn't mentioned so ignore accordingly if this doesn't apply.......[/i]

I was looking for similar earlier in the year.

The "best" I found in terms out out of the box spec/weight etc was this:

[img] [/img]

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b65s155p5204/CANNONDALE-F29-1-%28FLASH-ALLOY%29-2013

£1399 is a lot of money but considering the fork retails for circa £900 [i]seems[/i] GVFM IMO

Frame & fork are certainly worth of upgrade as parts wear etc

Ok I'll give my "wants" a go and see if something can be made to fit;

Carbon ideally though not essential
26lbs ish
Forks on the front
29er
Comfortable
£1000 or less

OR £2000 or less if it was FS and could replace the kind of all round duties of an 26lb ASR5. In this situation the sale of the ASR would help to fund so I can stretch a bit.

MUST NOT;

a) Compete with my 24lb Ti HT and hence why it must be specific to the job nor the ASR - i.e I don't want to spend £1000 on a bike which [i]just[/i] has bigger wheels if you see what I mean...

this is relevant to my interests.

[i]Forks on the front[/i]

Sounds radical, but it might just work.

Lol, "bouncy" forks...

my 24lb Ti HT

I am using that, but I was beaten by 29er's last night over a dry hoof-imprinted type of trails.

Or that could have been my lack of ability...

Sell the Ti bike then and get a Whyte 29C (ideally C - S).

Leave the ASR for what it's good at, upgrade the racin' snake.

I forgot to mention I can't sell the Ti bike - the frame is a 40th B'day present from my wife.

Would £1000 spent on the Ti bike make it appreciably better/lighter?

One of the Cube carbon Reaction series? Don't they start at a grand or so?

AlexSimon - Member
Would £1000 spent on the Ti bike make it appreciably better/lighter?

Maybe. It's XT with AC 1450g tubeless wheels with Ralph's, Sid RLT. Carbon post, lightweight saddle. I could ditch the Thompson stem and race face bar and go carbon I guess, and change my 520 pedals to something more trim.

But it wouldn't have the roll ability of a 29er though, or is that really just marginal?

Depends whether you think it is or not 🙂

It's different. Whether it's really real-world faster for non-pros...

Carbon ideally though not essential
26lbs ish
Forks on the front
29er
Comfortable
£1000 or less

Need a full build? Have you got much of a parts bin?

For a full build maybe a Boardman Pro 29er for a penny short of a grand. Dump the front mech and go 1x to drop a bit of weight of the claimed 12.08kg. Change the nobby nic's for something more racey and tubeless. Should get it down to 25lbs without much effort or cost (especially with some parts swapping off the enigma.)

But it wouldn't have the roll ability of a 29er though, or is that really just marginal?

🙂

Edit: bit more of a serious answer, having tried a 29er I'll not go back to racing on a 26.

[i]But it wouldn't have the roll ability of a 29er though, or is that really just marginal? [/i]

I think you'd be better off spending money on you than the bike. Pay for a trainer/training program, get some skills training. You'll gain more time int he technical stuff or climbing (especially climbing as you proportionally do more of it) by being good at those than having tyres that roll slightly better on bumps.

It's different. Whether it's really real-world faster for non-pros...

I'll let you know when the results are posted - I was one of only 5 26's I could see in a field of 40 or so riders.....

[quote=markrtw ]One of the Cube carbon Reaction series? Don't they start at a grand or so?
I had to take a 27.5 Reaction GTC for a wee test ride and I was stunned at how fast it felt. There's a steep brae up the back of the shop that is good for testing gear changes. The GTC was stomping up a couple of gears faster than normal.

So you want a 29er race bike, because it's faster. But it can't be as light as your ti hardtail...?

Chinese carbon (or cheap On One) frame, Superstar wheels, Reba fork, SLX 1x10 group, Mt Zoom finishing kit. Reckon you'll struggle for £1000.

Chinese carbon (or cheap On One)

No Scandals and the Dirty Harry would be pushing the budget, would need to be Chinese carbon. Reckon you'd be hard pushed to get a self build in under a grand unless you have a well stocked parts bin. Could you raid the Enigma for parts?

I sold a Scandal/Reba/Hope/Stans rolling chassis for less than £450 last year - was in mint condition. If found somethign similar and you got an XT groupset from Merlin etc you'd be nearly there for less than a grand.

It'll still be heavier than your Ti bike, though, and therefore maybe slower...

Was thinking about when O-O have their discounted frames, dodgy(er than usual) paint etc.

So you want a 29er race bike, because it's faster. [i]But it can't be as light as your ti hardtail...?[/i]

I didn't say that, I stated an approximate weight - the lighter the better. I don't want it to encroach on the "use case" of the HT vis a vis my idea was it should be "For Race Only".

I don't want it to encroach on the "use case" of the HT vis a vis my idea was it should be "For Race Only".

So what is the use case for a 24lbs Ti HT with SID forks and carbon bits? 🙂

Chinese carbon frame, Hope pro2/Crest, Merlin Reba/Sid, bikediscount.de XT groupset, Exotic bars/post/stem...
Should just sneak in under £1500

I built a Chinese carbon 29er for my sister, XT/SLX 1x10, Reba forks, came in under 23lbs and cost £1500.

So what is the use case for a 24lbs Ti HT with SID forks and carbon bits?

Erm....

Can you squeeze a 650b race day only wheelset into the enigma?
You could change the forks to 650b models that wouldn't upset the geo too much?
Or
http://www.merlincycles.com/beone-crd-sport-carbon-29er-mountain-bike-65330.html

The stated weight on that BeOne... I'd eat my hat!

Just was in the Thursday email off Merlin, bit looked in detail

I'm not sure converting to a heavier wheelset 650b with almost the same overall diameter to what you already have will make that much difference?

This has got "just ride the ti bike and ask Njee which stem/bars/qrs I need" all over it....

[i]just ride the ti bike[/i]

yes, but don't let that stop you spending a lot of money on a new bike 🙂

This has got "just ride the ti bike and ask Njee which stem/bars/qrs I need" all over it....

[url= http://www.xcracer.com/shop/ ]xcracer shop[/url]

MtZoom bars and QRs. KCNC stem.

The 650B wheelset option could be worth looking into if you have a lot of clearance on the frame, probably won't make a huge difference though. There was a link somewhere to someone who'd done that and raced on a whippet. Though if you have a grand to spend, maybe a really light set of 26" race wheels for the Ti bike.

How much lighter than 1450g wheels can I sensibly go?

mrblobby - Member
xcracer shop

MtZoom bars and QRs. KCNC stem.

Thanks for that - I just found the ti stem faceplate bolts I need for 3 bikes also 🙂

FWIW I was in the same situation with a 22lb Ti 26er best bike. I need to find 10% off my lap times to get where I want to be in the Gorricks etc plus I want more comfort/speed for long distance events (Manx 100etc). Most of that is likely to come from skill and fitness but if I can get 3% from a carbon 29er then I've decided that's worth it for me.

I've bought a Whyte 29c frame and will build up with the bits I want (LB wheels etc)for the same money as a 29c team. The ti bike becomes my winter trainer having donated the XTR etc.

Keeping equipment for sentiment is fine providing it doesn't frustrate performance.

Find some ztr mmx rims?

This has got "just ride the ti bike and ask Njee which stem/bars/qrs I need" all over it....

😆 I'd agree with mrblobby.

On wheels - my Podium/A2Z wheels were 1246g, and I never had any problems!

If you could get close to 29er performance from upgrading high quality 26er HT frames why aren't the unsponsored but quick XC riders snapping up the bargain 26er stuff and using it?

njee has just gone from full sus 26er to hardtail 29er - are you faster njee?

Fwiw Nick Craig came to Hit the North with a 26in wheeled bike and gave us all a good shoeing 🙂

Fwiw Nick Craig came to Hit the North with a 26in wheeled bike and gave us all a good shoeing

Mike Tyson could wear a tutu and still kick the **** out of me.

Kryton, you sound as jumbled as me in your bike choices.

Think you need to up your budget . £1000 does not really get you a lightweight carbon 29er with raceable spec . You are in danger of buying a 29er that will be no faster than what you are already riding because it will have heavy finishing kit and fairly low end componentry on it . £1500 gets you a very light aluminium Trek Superfly 8 which is lighter than some of Treks carbon framed hardtails . Specialized have money off the Crave range . The pro down from 1600 to 1400 or the Elite from 1400 to 1250 . You can probably get more for your money buying 2013 bikes if anybody still has them or by buying less mainstream models but remember not all Carbon is the same and you can be better off sometimes with an alloy frame rather than a carbon from some of the smaller brands . At the end of the day though you have started lots of these type of threads over the years and usually completely changed tack half way through and gone off and bought a completely different bike from the one you said you were after .Also are you sure it's not just a knee jerk reaction to having a worse result than you were expecting .

Teamhurtmore yes and I refer you to Neil's post below. Neil you are probably right although I don't know last nights result yet to be fair.

So it turns our my fast light 29er is actually my ti 26er which could be 1/4lb lighter for £159.

To answer Neil's question and probably my own - the asr5 which I intend to run at he Bonty 24/12 is 26lb so not heavy for what it is and I am no where near a place where 1/4lb of weight will make a difference to my placing. So, I should stick to plan a, which is to stick with the Ti HT for short races or suitable events (I used it at HONC), and use the yeti for comfort / enduro style events / the play bike whilst waiting to see if I continue racing - in which case the Yeti will get replaced in a couple of years by a shorter travel/more race orientated bike such as todays Anthem. Proper racing both on and off road was always a "tester" this year for me.

I'm just impatient. 🙂

where did you race last night?

njee has just gone from full sus 26er to hardtail 29er - are you faster njee?

I'm not slower... Hard to say, I think I'm faster, plenty of Strava PRs. race results are still shit, but I'm not fit! I guess summer will tell more definitively. Faster trails and that! I prefer the feel of the 29er.

dirtyrider - Member
where did you race last night?

Beastway.

I'm not slower... Hard to say

Know what you mean. So much of this sort of thing is psychological though that if you think you're on a slower bike you're already at a disadvantage.

Anyway Kryton have you considered CX racing? 😉

Mmm, and trails change too, so I'm not quicker down some, but I don't think that's indicative of the bike.

I've been surprised a few times that I've set PRs in places I'd not expect to on the 29er, but then others (Labyrinth at Swinley notably) I was way way way down on my time on the Top Fuel. Don't ride it often though.

I was amazed that I knocked 8 minutes off my 1hr 12 off road commute with new 29er. Previously very fit on a rigid Tranny that weighed nothing. Now on a heavier 29er and I've hardly ridden in the past 12 months, got a bit of a belly. Go figure.

I've certainly not seen that sort of change. My 29er is slightly lighter too.

That strikes me as shiny bike effect - 10% quicker.

I was amazed that I knocked 8 minutes off my 1hr 12 off road commute with new 29er. Previously very fit on a rigid Tranny that weighed nothing. Now on a heavier 29er and I've hardly ridden in the past 12 months, got a bit of a belly. Go figure.

Gravity?

Anyway Kryton have you considered CX racing?

Actually I have, but I decided that was for indecisive people. Oh wait...

best like on like comparison i can make between my 26" Blur LTc and my 29" TallboyC is (only difference was frame, forks and wheels, groupset and finishing kit was the same) - both were 140mm forks, no traffic on either,

2/9/12 - Dalby - 2:24:17 < ----- Blur LTc 26er - RaRa F+R
21/9/12 - Dalby - 2:17:23 <----- TallboyC 29er - Hans Front, RaRa Rear

both are moving time, was bone dry both times,

not ridden a 26" since September 2012

add a bit of fitness, weight is static at about 85kg geared up

22/11/13 - Dalby - 2:11:34 - On a Surly Krampus (Knards, Rigid, XX1 with a 28t Ring)- was hammering it down from 40 minutes in, maybe earlier

both the below were without Camelbak, 1x 700ml bottle on the bike, with Thunder Burts F+R and it was wet.very wet in sections

27/4/14 - Dalby - 1:47:04 - TallboyC (just the reds markers, its 0.3km less than the times above) -
27/4/14 - Dalby - 2:04:16 - 15 Minutes after lap 1, with traffic and same markers as Year 12/13 times)

I think I was just fresh.

As they are both rigid bikes it is probably downy to kicking out a more constant pace/rhythm, maintaining momentum on the uneven, but fairly flat BW's back from work.

Add significant hills and I am sure the balance is likely to change.

Doh!

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-trek-superfly-al-elite-29er-hardtail-5

perfect 🙂

Did you mention if you wanted danglies on it or not, I can't remember, if not you could easily SS a 29er and get it under 18lbs... Just like my Niner One9 😉

Thing I think is that if you've got a well specced 26" hardtail, and buy a significantly cheaper 29er as a race bike I reckon you may be disappointed.

Isn't Labyrinth the most 26" FS suited section of the whole of Swinley?

adsh - Member
Isn't Labyrinth the most 26" FS suited section of the whole of Swinley?

I'm riding with him soon so with my current fitness peak and his alleged lack of fitness [s]ill still lose[/s] maybe we should have a shootout 😀

Thing I think is that if you've got a well specced 26" hardtail, and buy a significantly cheaper 29er as a race bike I reckon you may be disappointed.

unless he ports the heavy OEM stuff off the 29er onto the Ti and the Gucci stuff onto the 2er9

OR, lets go mad here,

he talks to his wife, explains it all, and hangs the Ti frame in the wall, uses the £1k to buy a frame (Trek Superfly) and the sale of the forks/wheels to replace like for like, may have to ass £200 here

thats CRAZY talk though 🙂

Thing I think is that if you've got a well specced 26" hardtail, and buy a significantly cheaper 29er as a race bike I reckon you may be disappointed.

I agree with everything Nick has said 😀

A 26lb 29er hardtail isn't really light and the spec and feel of a race bike for £1000 will leave you underwhelmed. The cheap(er) bike to compensate for perceived loss of speed compared to the bling 26 Ti bike can only really end in disappointment.

I've been feeling similar... I'm sucking in races and ride a 26 ... therefore the only reason I suck is because of the wheel size. Actually, no, I just suck compared to the other guys 😀 I think it is much better to invest the time, energy and potentially money in actually riding the damn bike and trying to improve myself rather than the bike 😉

If you are having new bike syndrome and/ or are convinced that a 29er is all you need to start competing then surely the most sensible use of the same money is to upgrade the frame/ forks/ wheels/ tyres of the Ti bike. Still probably going to have to be the Light-Bicycle/ Chinese frame type route so losing a bit of bling but it all depends on what is important to you...

It'll still be heavier than your Ti bike, though, and therefore maybe slower...

Depends on the rider, eh... 😉

DrP

Isn't Labyrinth the most 26" FS suited section of the whole of Swinley?

Probably, and I rode it in July in the bone dry on my Top Fuel, and in the pissing rain on my Superfly, but I was just shocked as I thought "yeah that was quick" on the 29er and I was way off my previous pace.

Actually, just checked, 4:49 on the Top Fuel, 5:18 on the Superfly, so not as much as I'd thought.

I'm riding with him soon so with my current fitness peak and his alleged lack of fitness ill still lose maybe we should have a shootout

Not doing Swinley though are we?

Not doing Swinley though are we?

No it was a tongue In cheek comment.

DanW I've made a significant ( in the time available between work and kids) in traiing for road / road crits which has result in 1st weight loss and large FTP gains.

I just have n+1

Could've been interesting to race down it though! I've got a big local knowledge advantage in the Surrey Hills.

What happens if you supersede the ti hardtail? Is it just a fear that you'll make it obsolete and piss your wife off?

Yes basically. Although I do like riding it.

But I do crave FS comfort. If I carry on racing I'll be looking at short travel FS most likely although that said I've never ridden a 29er ht and people tell me that they can be less stiff vertically than 26ers.

see, ive got a 29er full sus, and i wonder how quicker id be on a HT,

Hmm. 23rd in class. Not helped by a balls up at the start on my part.

*wonders if a 29er would have placed me top 20*

Mind you I had to ride with a tube in the front tyre, so with the resulting [marketing spiel] lack of grip, and increased rolling resistance [/marketing spiel] it's probably worth a couple of places next round now that the tyre has sealed.

Kryton57 - Member

Hmm. 44th in total 25th in class. Not helped by a balls up at the start on my part.

*wonders if a 29er would have placed me top 20*

Mind you I had to ride with a tube in the front tyre, so with the resulting [marketing spiel] lack of grip, and increased rolling resistance [/marketing spiel] it's probably worth a couple of places next round now that the tyre has sealed.

MAybe, but it's still not enough of an edge to move up any more than that. In simple terms, you're not good enough. Come to terms with it or improve dramtically.

Spending money on a bike is completely pointless for the goals you have.

Agreed. Like I said though, for reasons known to me if would have easily been in that top 20 (debatable) if I hadn't come through the first corner last.

The fact that I took 15 places - 2 DNF- back should be encouraging In fact the strava segment of the lap someone created shows my fastest lap time as 10th overall.

10th of people who uploaded the ride to Strava though?

Anyway, if you have n+1 fever the just go and buy something. Don't look for daft justification.

I find that when I have a long time off the bike I wonder about buying all sorts of things to compensate... but when I'm on the bike I'm thinking about riding more and just loving the feeling of being out riding. The key to both dampening the n+1 fever and getting faster is to ride more 😀

Mike Tyson could wear a tutu and still kick the **** out of me.

I'd pay to see that...

Just for the record when I looked back at Endomondo my fastest time on a 26er was 1hr 4, 2 years ago (not 1:12 as I had thought). So on a 29er I have matched that time albeit with a drastically reduced level of fitness.

What size bike are you after? I'll soon have a 19" Stumpjumper carbon comp for sale, 2012 model. With 1x10 and crests/DT/XTR wheels, it comes in at 22 lbs.