Helius AM… BOS vs FOX by thepimpmessiah, on Flickr

Rode these two last night back to back. The Yellow is a large and my black is Medium. I’m between the sizes so both work well for me with little time required to acclimatise 😉
Spec is very similar, Reverb, HammerSchmidt, same weight give or take a little. Owner/rider weights are similar so no changes required.
On my AM the Fox forks are 2010 36 Float RC2 (need a service) and the rear shock is a Push/TFT tuned Float R which I am very happy with.
The Yellow AM has a new BOS VIPr rear shock and the new 170mm Deville fork.

Riding impressions. I rode the BOS bike first and the immediate feeling is one of taut control. The fork does not dive or wallow and feels like it rides at the same height all the time. The forks and rear shock feel the same and hence the bike feels very planted and stable. What I noticed when back on the FOX set up is how it’s angle sensitive, on steep climbs the rear sags into the travel and the fork runs high, steep downs and the fork dives and the rear extends… somehow the BOS feels like it’s not doing that which makes the bike feels more stable.

For actual hooning around and descending the BOS fork felt better than my 36. I’d like to try it again once my Fox has been serviced as I think that is skewing the results, but there is no getting away from how smooth the Deville is and I really liked the feeling. Plush/Smooth/Bottomless etc, all the usual words.
The VIPr is really impressive, again it feels taut and controlled and even when pushed into some manoeuvres which phase my other shocks (the pushed Float R and my CCDB) the VIPr shrugged it off. Usually the jump to stepped uphill landing which is taken on the back wheel is a great way to make a rear shock blow through and stall; but somehow the VIPr did not stall and rolled out with much more speed than I expected. On warp factor nine when my eyeballs are usually so rattled it’s hard to see where your going I was better able to pick a line… just, the Fox is good here too but the CCDB would win. Control when riding the back wheel through the gnar was better with the VIPr than with the Fox but not quite at CCDB levels. Jumps to flat landings etc and the usual trail riding had both forks and shocks working well. I did increase the rear damping on the Fox set up to get closer to the VIPr feel but the VIPr still felt better. I also adjusted the 36 fork a little to try and match the Deville but again the Deville had the edge (VIPr and Deville both on factory settings… nothing adjusted!).

It was on steep climbs and flowing trails where I found the VIPr was really showing up the Fox (and my CCDB), by not blowing through the travel it doesn’t waste your energy on terrain changes… I found myself climbing in a gear higher with the BOS set up because it rolled over the terrain and gripped better… almost like having 5psi less pressure in the tyres (they were the same). Will I change? I would like to but the cost is probably prohibitive for me this year… but if I was to be buying new shocks and forks right now and I could afford these I would not hesitate… I was very impressed.

Excellent write-up! I have the Deville forks on my HD and love them, and am thinking about swapping out the RP23 to either the VIP-R or CCDB. How close does the VIP-R get to the CCDB in terms of performance? Key for me really is grip and control, which is where, on previous bikes, I’ve found the CCDB to excel.

nice comparison – what to try some BOS stuff, but yes the prices are prohibitive

Would you buy a new (2011 FIT) 36 fork to do more of a like-for-like comparison? The 2010 and 2011 dampers are quite different propositions.

Three_Fish – Member
Would you buy a new (2011 FIT) 36 fork to do more of a like-for-like comparison? The 2010 and 2011 dampers are quite different propositions.

Yeah, come on messiah…buy a 2011 fork and do a relevant review, ya tight-wad! Comparisons to a 2010 model are a waste of our time, frankly.

Back in the real world…nice write up, cheers!

Yeah, come on messiah…buy a 2011 fork and do a relevant review, ya tight-wad! Comparisons to a 2010 model are a waste of our time, frankly.

Precisely. Some people… 🙄

Hi Heihei, I would say that the CCDB is better for all out grip in pure DH terms, it really is amazing when plowing through the silly gnar… but the VIPr handles techy climbing so much better (than CCDB or Float) because it doesn’t sit into the travel. I don’t think I have my CCDB set up as well as I could and perhaps my spring is too soft? There are a few things I want to try with my CCDB to see if I can get better climbing performance to match the doonhall ability.
Straight out of the box the VIPr is stunning wheras the CCDB takes time and effort to set-up. My Float R rear was Push tuned to reduce the blow through and I’d thought it was good because it was better than the coil I used to run (DHX4), but the VIPr is another step above… due to the climbing performance I would say that at the moment I prefered the VIPr to my CCDB. Anyone want to buy a 215 x 63 CCDB

As for the fork comments… you provide the forks and I’ll test them 8) … but yes… I know my forks are old and could do with a service but they have always settled into the travel which the Deville does not do… and I think it’s that part of the performance which makes them feel different/better. The downside of that is not being able to preload the fork in the same way that I do with my Float… which nearly caused me a few wee trips into the bushes but I got used to it quickly… mere foibles 🙄

The Yellow one was on loan for a test ride… I don’t own two Nicolai’s (now!!!).

What Low Speed and High Speed settings did you have on the Fox?

What Low Speed and High Speed settings did you have on the Fox?

Ones I was happy with… I know from fiddling with them in the past that where I had them is were I like them. Add LSC and they hold up better and are less divey, but they are also less plush. Add HSC and my eyeballs get knocked about too much.

As for the fork comments… you provide the forks and I’ll test them … but yes… I know my forks are old and could do with a service but they have always settled into the travel which the Deville does not do…

I hope you don’t think I was being flippant with your review? It’s great to get feedback beyond “my fork iz teh shiz!”. I still think my point is relevant, though: the new/current damper is a considerable improvement on the 2009/10. The new damper stays up where the old would dive, without losing any small-bump sensitivity, and tends to stay higher in its travel than the RC2. The high and low-speed compression on the RC2 is not always easy to tune to a good balance/relationship (at least I sometimes struggled and did seem to spend a little too much time fettling). It’s low-speed only on the RLC damper, a good move in my opinion, and and the threshold lockout is also a real boon. I’m not in any way wanting or trying to put the BOS down, just pointing out that the perceived downsides of the RC2 are not present in the new damper.

Thanks Three Fish – interesting comment about the newer Fox forks… I’ve read that some folk prefer the older ones so perhaps they like the settling… and I agree about the RC2 damper… one click fine, two clicks fine, three clicks OUCH 👿

I’ve owned 2011 floats borne the 180mm fit and 160mm fit rc2 ……. And whilst better then my 2010 floats the devilles are much much better and I agree with the messiah about how they ride. (also on an am) I have my vipr at home just waiting for my mounting hardware to come in.

I found the 2011 floats fine on the bigger impacts but when cornering or on steep downs they would wallow through their midstroke making the bike unbalanced. Whilst there was an improvement in the small bump sensitivity between the fox models the deville somehow have almost coil levels of plushness to the point I think the only dorks which I’ve tried that are better were coil totems.

I have some Fox 2007 36 Van RC2’s which have been ‘tuned’. They are incredible BUT aggressive.

I have some Fox 2007 36 Van RC2’s which have been ‘tuned’. They are incredible BUT aggressive.

Do they bite or is it all bark? 😉

I was thinking of getting mine tuned but will probably flog them on and get Deville’s now.

A tuned fork is better than a out of the box fork. Doesn’t matter too much which one it is.

I think the only dorks which I’ve tried that are better were coil totems.

suspension dorks? a new sub-breed?

Have to be careful with 2009/10/11 comparisons on Fox. The FIT damper was introduced in 2010 and was just inverted for 2011 depending on when you got them. It’s the FiT damper that was the key change.

Having said that good review messiah. I have the devilles and changed from a Fox FIT for exactly the reasons you describe, I could only either get non divvy/harsh or plush wallowy, really struggled to fin a balance. The Devilles seemed to work out the box for me as you describe, ride high yet soak up the trail and hold up brilliantly under big hits,I did initially drop the pressure compared to standard as they were breaking my hands hard, but I thought my shock pump might be out. Bought a new pump and found out the old one was over reading by 1.5 bar!

I am running a STOY on the back of my AM having changed from a CCDB, I had no issues with the CCDB but thought a bike tuned shock might work better than me messing up a CCDB. I have to say it too has been awesome out the box with only a couple of notches of LSC added to firm up pedalling out the saddle.

I’ve done a few Enduro races (lots of timed liason stages followed by special stage Doonhall craziness, rinse, repeat until about 1500m climbing done 😀 ) abroad now with the Stoy/Deville combo and really rate it.
I’m looking at the IP’r with a view to lightening up the bike for Enduro races with a lot of climbing and am in two minds whether to sell the STOY or not. I am sure in the gnarr the STOY will ultimately be better, but how good am I is the question. Can I really keep it for the annual trip to the alps for uplifted action, hmmm.

Look into my eyelets 😈

BOS VIPr by thepimpmessiah, on Flickr

BOS Deville 170 by thepimpmessiah, on Flickr

Loving the Custom Buddha nobble!!

Good write up, . . . . . STW give this man a job!!

The FIT damper was introduced in 2010 and was just inverted for 2011 depending on when you got them. It’s the FiT damper that was the key change.

The 36s had a FIT damper from at least 2009 (I know this because I had a 2009 RC2). The inverted FIT damper came into the 2011 range. The inverted RC2 may ride the same as the previous RC2, but the RLC FIT is a much different fork, as I describe above. I’d be interested to know what difference, if any, there is between the 36 dampers. Loco?

Messiah, do you mind me asking what weight you are? Considering moving back to an air shock in the future to lighten the bike, but being 15st in riding gear, never really seem to get on with air (either too harsh or too wallowy).

Three Fish, Mine was a 2010 36 RLC FIT. Didnt get on with it, just couldn’t set it up to my liking. Very, VEry stiff you could tell but the Deville’s work better for me. I moved the Fox’s onto my hardtail for a while so had a back to back comparison.

Not saying the FOX was a rubbish fork, anything but! But for what I wanted and how I like a fork to feel, BOS rocked.

I’m not biased or snobby anything, I also really like the latest xx SID on my XC/trail bike 🙂 and if BOS hadn’t reduced the cost of the Deville to less than a 36, I probably wouldn’t have gone with it. But they did 🙂 result!

AndyA… I’m about 13-1/2… all muscle 😉
My tuned float is the first air shock I’ve gotten on with, and the VIPr is better. Not sure how that will translate to other riders and bikes, but it sure impressed me.

messiah, nice write up great to see someone attempt to eliminate other variables or at least try to take them into account, and to try be objective.

Professional group test writers could learn a thing or two.

i’d like to see Vip’r Stoy comparo now 😀

i’d like to see Vip’r Stoy comparo now

If someone lends me one in the right size with the correct spring I’ll easy test it and write up on it 😀

On a side note I’ve got some new recomendations on settings from TFT for my CCDB so I’ll be having another play with that.

Any news on when the Vip’r and Deville’s will be available? Tempted to press the button on the Vip’r but don’t want to pay and then be waiting months on end.

Both the Deville and the VIPr (and the two Nic’s) came from one of my local pushers – Gravity Sports.

http://www.gravity-sports.co.uk/

Send him a note from his contact page and he’ll get back to you… I think his site needs an update.

Richard said he could them quite quickly… quicker than I can get the money together anyway 😥

New suggested settings for my CCDB from TFT made a huge difference 8)

I’m now feeling the love for this rear shock, it now feels taut but playful… like the VIPr… but still with the extra smoothness on the stupid.

Messiah, sounds like the way I feel about the STOY, I am resigned to the fact that when I get a vip’r it will not be as good at the margins as the coil, but I think I’m willing to compromise to save that weight over a 7th big day out with lots of climbing!

I am very tempted to keep the STOY but struggling with the concept of the ‘stranded’ cash 😕

I hear you pilot. I did two big rides over the weekend. Saturday was great fun riding with big drops and daftness but all rideable so I ran the CCDB with the new settings to try it. Sunday was a monster 4000+ft Scottish peak with a wad of carrying and a rocky awesome descent… I hummed an haaa’d and eventually went with the Float R. The CCDB would have been much better and with hindsight I wish I had, but the Fox was more than good enough… and I guess thats’ what it comes down to. Is a “good enough” feeling shock good enough or do want “the best” feeling shock?
Had I had the VIPr option I would absolutely have run that as it was better than my tuned Fox… but would I still be wishing for the CCDB??? I’d love to try the CCDB and VIPr (and a Stoy) back to back.

Anyone want to buy a 215 x 63 CCDB

yes! how much do you want for it?

If you’re serious…

Last week I would have sold it. With the new settings I am not so sure… more fiddling required.

how do the new settings compare with the old?

darn… well, if you change you mind.

Great article by the way.

Fancy a vip’r but been offered a used stoy tuned to my bike for similar amount? Any thoughts?

how do the new settings compare with the old?

Surprisingly little, two whole turns of HSC, and a few clicks of everything else. Made the shock much more taut and controlled which I like a lot, the bike sits higher and pedals much better. Downhill its still super controlled… excellent result from 5 mins on the phone. Cheers Dave at TFTUNED..

I have a pair of 2011 Fox 36 FIT RLCs and I’m not impressed with them at all.

The stiction is unbelievable. I thought of a way to quantify this – I used a pair of scales to measure how much ‘force’ was needed to break stiction. With 60psi in the fork and direct pressure slowly applied onto the fork while it was on the scales it took 20kgs to overcome the initial stiction.
And I’ve proved it’s the internal spring and damper assemblies not the seals or bushes causing this. This affects all manner of things – small bump, sag, notchiness, etc.

They also have excessive dive through the mid stroke. And then with LSC dialled in they don’t feel as supple.

And I’m always about 20mm short of full travel too. If I reduce the air pressure further they become even more divey. (I’m considering the spring mod to make them less progressive.)

Positives-

Damping is ok. Great weight. Very stiff.

Wish I bought something else.

Im running my Enduro in its more DH orientated spec with 170mm Devilles up front and a tuned CCDB out rear (again, thanks to Dave at TFTuned who has been helping with this small (ahem!) engineering exercise)

Got a Bos Vip’r in the works to run for the less DH riding with a lighter wheelset. The Devilles are the best forks out there by a significant margin in my experience.

Should have been at the Mega this weekend but work has got in the way – gutted.

Emmodd.

That’s about what i’m selling my STOY for if you factor in a tune. It’s an awesome shock. Almost certainly better than a Vip’r in absolute terms. If 650g extra weigh is not a problem for that extra performance I would get the Stoy, you won’t be disappointed, I was, and still am, amazed at how it pedals and makes my bike grip the trail.

I just do alot of climbing, and by a lot, I mean multiple 2000m climbing days in succession, so I think it’s time to cut a bit of weight. If I could afford to do it elsewhere, I would. I know I can, but the cost is too prohibitive, carbon wheels etc, etc.