540º on a roundabout.

This is the roundabout in question. The left hand lane of the preceding bit of dual carriageway from the M53 feeds the two lanes on the left, the right hand lane of the dual carriageway is deicated for right turn (the road markings and layout is poor). The left hand lane was backed up with vehicles and I decided to turn right, take the third exit and pop down Kingsway as a less congested route as Hoole Road congestion is often the reason for traffic backing up here. As I was turning right I realised that Hoole Road exit was clear. I was indicating right and kept on going. I wasn’t in a rush and I don’t see that not wanting to waste time by waiting in a pontless queue is the same as being in a rush.

Almost correct.

Erm… 270 would be a left turn after 3/4 of a lap of the roundabout!

I’ve been a bit provocative because I find it baffling and amusing that people always get so het up about this sort of thing (I’m talking about the caravan driver types mentioned above^). I answered in the way I did first off because I don’t commute by car, there aren’t any routes I drive regularly enough to know about local conventions which sit outside normal road use. So any scenario in my head is approaching a roundabout for the first time. I also found it hard to imagine coming up to a roundabout, intending to go straight ahead, and not picking the lane with the shortest queue. And if there was a queue of 30 cars in the left hand lane, how would I know from that far away that the cars were queueing to go straight ahead? Are they going left? If you can go straight ahead from either lane, I’m not going to park at the end of a massive queue just in case there’s a special local reason here that the right hand lane is only for right hand turns. If it’s important enough for special rules, they’ll adapt the road markings and/or signs. Probably wouldn’t bother with the 360 in that circumstance.

captain, so there is a local rule here? Fair enough. Was the exit clear?

captain, so there is a local rule here? Fair enough. Was the exit clear?

The rule is dictated by the road markings which I assume is national. I am aware that markings are different on different roundabouts which is simply stupid as the rules that used to be found in the Highway Code are thrown out of the window. Being in the right hand lane and unable to go straight on contradicts the Highway Code and give the selfrighteous a hand up to their high horses.
The exit at 180º was clear as was the exit at 270º. If the 180º exit was blocked, I would have followed the original idea and headed for Kingsway.

Ah, so if I understand correctly, the queue wasn’t due to the exit road being congested, but to junction capacity being limited. Would you like to explain how using excessive junction capacity in those circumstances compares to middle lane hogging?

Just think about yourself at the give way line, you are waiting for a suitable gap in traffic approaching to your right before you can proceed. If knobbers from your approach are doing a 540 then they are adding to the traffic on your right and making you wait longer for a gap.

Not necessarily. Two lanes entering RAB. LH lane queued RH lane empty.
If nobber goes to front of RH lane then the next time there is a gap it means 2 rather than one car can enter RAB. As nobber goes round the constant stream of traffic entering from the RH lane causing the queue in nobber’s entry road will have to stop creating a gap.

So in fact nobber is not stealing anyone else’s gap as he shares a gap with a car from the LH lane. As he goes round nobber causes the traffic from the right to stop thus creating another gap. Therefore nobber’s lap of the RAB actually shortens the q in the LH lane (in some circumstances).

Therefore nobber’s lap of the RAB actually shortens the q in the LH lane (in some circumstances).

Not really, at best it’s neutral for the queue and he’s just inconvenienced those who are less important than him in the queue – because he’s filled whatever gap he created.

sadly the signs that say “use both lanes when queuing” are a step too far for some british motorists. Last week we came across a caravan who felt it his duty to block both lanes to prevent anyone doing so.

He was doing exactly what the signage said! (-:

Doing the 360degree+ trick at a roundabout is obviously selfish, something to be reserved for occasional in a massive hurry situation.

I’ve held off commenting here as I’ve been kinda torn. On the one hand it could be perceived to be queue-jumping, on the other it could making use of available unsused roadspace. It’s not something I make a habit of, but something I’d entertain given the right circumstances. So basically what Twisty said.

Erm… 270 would be a left turn after 3/4 of a lap of the roundabout!

What madness is this? By that logic, every roundabout junction is a left turn. When did you last turn right off a roundabout in the UK?

interpretation madness. approaching the roundabout which is organising 2 roads meeting at right angles, the choices are 1st exit 90deg, 2nd exit straight on 0deg, 3rd exit 90deg, 4th, back on yourself is 180deg, 1st again is 270.

Ah, so if I understand correctly, the queue wasn’t due to the exit road being congested, but to junction capacity being limited. Would you like to explain how using excessive junction capacity in those circumstances compares to middle lane hogging?

Why don’t you just do that?

You’ll have to use your imagination a bit here, but here goes.
The blue line is the centre lane in the photo above and holds the outside lane on the roundabout.
Here comes the imagination bit, move the green line to the junction on the right, they enter the roundabout, hold the inner line and can exit alongside the blue line.
With correct filtering and courtesy both can exit the roundabout and no one is held up.
Perhaps people need to learn how to use roundabouts? 8)
Nothing like middle lane hogging which is a bugbear and illegal.

Not necessarily. Two lanes entering RAB. LH lane queued RH lane empty.
If nobber goes to front of RH lane then the next time there is a gap it means 2 rather than one car can enter RAB. As nobber goes round the constant stream of traffic entering from the RH lane causing the queue in nobber’s entry road will have to stop creating a gap.

So in fact nobber is not stealing anyone else’s gap as he shares a gap with a car from the LH lane. As he goes round nobber causes the traffic from the right to stop thus creating another gap. Therefore nobber’s lap of the RAB actually shortens the q in the LH lane (in some circumstances).

Fair point, it is more complicated than I made out. However:
[list][*]Nobber takes up space on the circulatory and doesn’t create new gap opportunities, yes they cause other approaches to give way as they go round the roundabout but this is of no bonus to anybody else as knobber takes up the space on the road that the other traffic would have occupied, the other traffic still need to go through the roundabout so will take the next gap. The knobber takes up a gap on the circulatory that could have been used for several people to enter and exit the roundabout which means there are less gaps for everybody else, which causes more queues and delays for everybody else.[/*]
[*]The left turn has a single lane exit and this constrains the maximum capacity. The bonus of two cars with a left turn destination crossing the give way line at the same time is taken back when knobber causes left traffic to stop and give way when they filter back into the left turning traffic stream. Actually, the knobber further reduces capacity: headway for an unopposed traffic stream is ~1 car every 2 seconds because you can run a tight headway when following a moving vehicle, this capacity roughly halves to 1 car every 4 seconds for an opposed traffic stream as people need more headway when accelerating into a gap in front of/behind moving traffic.[/*]
[*]Back to what I previously said, the nobber doing a 540 screws all the other approaches too, not just the approach they arrived on.[/*][/list]

Erm… 270 would be a left turn after 3/4 of a lap of the roundabout!

You’ve described it exactly how people drive it, so yes.
TBH I totally understand the confusion here, going straight over a roundabout could be considered 0deg(change in attitude) or 180deg (how far round the clock/compass you have travelled) depending on your frame of reference. Likewise doing a U turn could be considered 180deg or 360deg. 540deg is just a lot more convenient that saying ‘all the way round the roundabout 1 and a half times’.

Why don’t you just do that?

I’ve just re-read and my response makes no sense as a reply to aracer, it’s a reply to someone or something though. Apologies aracer, not having a pop, just explaining. 😳

Not only is this manoeuvre queue jumping, but it holds up traffic on all 4 entries while the lap is completed.

It’s about as selfish as driving can get.

if you’re talking 3 lanes coming into the roundabout, and 2 lanes out, then I’d say you can use any lane coming in, to go straight over. And Better to use up space instead of jamming up one lane.
Unless there are arrows/signs etc to the contrary.
But if there’s only one lane out it wouldn’t make sense
So how do you know if there’s one lane out or two?

There’re way too many signs/markings these days, once you start getting comfortable they throw some new designation at you.May be ok if you drive for one hour a day, but if you’re driving 8hours a day it takes up much too much attention