Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

https://zwift-ds.com/wtrl-100-out-back-again/?fbclid=IwAR26wCRyEl4lS-d_k1GHG7fCTycCrJ3p41P71WLuErxZ93JGcGrq9waASJk

DS notes for this week.

9 so far. Any more takers?

Join category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1899809

I’m not looking forward to that volcano. I may have to do a Captain Oates at that point.

I’ve also got a situation with my 2 year old Neo 2 which may be knocking on deaths door – it lost resistance twice during the second event yesterday, like extended wheel slip for several seconds, causing me to cruise round from about half way. This with a smell of burning is known to be a death knell for Neo’s, although I could not smell anything. Some people have rigged up cooling fans, I may have to look into that.

Jacks original Neo which I bought and fixed for £50 is still going strong.

Turbo death is an expensive problem right now @haloric. I’d be rigging up those fans. I’m gonna guess that the burning smell is part an important part of the bad possibility though, so without it there’s hope.
Will Garmin help?
What did you have to do to Jack’s to fix it?

Sorry savoyad, not me this week – going to finish too late for me to get to an online meeting. Can’t say I’m all that disappointed, looking at the route 😬

Garmin may help, but since its out of warranty its expensive, like £700 for a 2nd hand trainer. The Neo group on FB is full of people with burnout issues and different warranty behaviours. I’ve got all the kit to replace the bearings so may have a go at taking it apart, cleaning and putting back together, as well as a mounted fan to improve airflow.

I got Jacks one of the FB group for £50, Garmin had diagnosed it as ‘burn out’ and out of warranty to some chap, he forked out for a new Neo 2T. He claimed it worked when pedalled but not via the power brick (which he had replaced) and that was true. I tested the power brick and that was fine, took the Neo apart and soldered in a new power jack socket and its been perfect ever since, either the socket or the cable were flaky, got lucky.

I tested the power brick and that was fine, took the Neo apart and soldered in a new power jack socket and its been perfect ever since, either the socket or the cable were flaky, got lucky.

wow! The guy must’ve had more money that sense! That would be the obvious thing to check if it was otherwise 100% working (or get a mate/pay someone to check it!)

My Neo (one of the very first ones) has never “slipped”, have always sometimes got that burning smell but only when putting out big watts… assumed that’s just what they did 🤣 Hopefully got a lot of life left in it, if it did die I’d be very tempted by the Neo Bike tho (not that you can get one right now anyway)

That neo sounds like a bargain.

@haloric is Jack riding this week? I cant see his name in the companion app at the moment. He seemed to go well last night.

@mbs you joining us this week? The volcano climb should suit you well!

Both @mbs and Jack are now registered.

None of us are looking forward to it, in the usual way.

Start delays are:

MoreSTW 9mins
STW 13mins

Delays are not as bad as last week but we will be out on the road for a decent amount of time tonight.

Awaiting team announcement but have a rough idea of plan as follows:

First part through the desert: normal rotations
From the desert to the volcano: rotations done by the stronger climbers, to rest the those who will be setting the pace on the volcano.
Volcano: go at the pace of the slowest climber – this needs to be a sustainable pace for them as there is still a way to go after this.
Top of the volcano: make sure we are all together before the descent
Bottom of the volcano: resume normal rotations
KOM reverse: as above for volcano
Final few kms: Rotations with whoever is still able to pull or shelter in the group if you need to

If we go to fast then we will burn out people on the two climbs and it doesn’t look like we will have a full team of 8 so we need to be careful for attrition with the potential for technical difficulties as we need to get 4 across the line.

I would rather get to the top of the volcano with people being (relatively) fresh so we can push on in the second half than having people blowing out of their arse and us struggling to complete.

Any thoughts/opinions welcome 🙂

Hi – I’ve signed up for this evenings race. I’m happy to do 1 min pulls for up to about 25km. If that coincides with the volcano climb I might be able to push it a bit further – for some reason my power drop off isn’t that bad going up hills! After that I suspect I’ll be hanging on for dear life. Longer races are not my forte.

@nixie are you playing tonight? or back on your normal team?

cheers @mbs survival is the name of the game tonight! A lot of Zwift racing is around the 40/45 min mark so anything longer tends to be attritional. A slower start could pay dividends in hoovering up spent teams later in the day.

As above, pacing will be the key thing tonight. The hills aren’t suited to everyone so can I politely suggest that if you need a breather and it’s your turn, don’t be afraid to miss one out? It’s better to do that and recover than leave it too late and just blow up. I think the different characteristics of us as riders benefits the team and whilst I’m OK going up those hills, I’ll be sitting behind the diesel engines on the way back down and on the flat! 🙂

@robbo1234biking I’m going to be coughing my lungs up in an espresso pain train with BRT tonight.

Longer races are not my forte.

very much this 😂

A slower start could pay dividends in hoovering up spent teams later in the day.

yeah we want to avoid burning anyone out if poss! The problem I’ve had in the past though, is that passes require a bit of a power surge, and late on in the race I often don’t have it left in the legs any more 😭

I wonder if we might try a different passing strategy tonight – should we get to pass anyone.

Our usual approach is fine where there is a largish disparate speed difference, as its easier to make a clean pass, but when we creep up on a similar speed team..

I find that we accelerate too soon and too strong on on the front, and get strung out before the pass, leading to the last few (normally me and my minder) struggling through, and the group wondering if we all got through, and being a reasonable distance away from the last rider.

If we were ‘led up’ to the acceleration point as usual, but on the ‘go’ word (say 10m back) we accelerate from the rear of the group, with the rear riders riding through our team as the accelerate, but the passed riders only accelerate as they see they are about to be passed.

This way we should pass as a blob, making it less likely to get caught in the passed team, and not a long line.

This will also lead to the stronger riders being aware of where the slower riders are, because they will be alongside or in front for a short while as we hit the tail of the team in front.

It does require the rear riders to put in the effort first, but it should ultimately result in less split drama and total effort.

Just a thought. If we are on a hill, all bets are off.

@haloric’s plan looks good.

I’m just struggling with teams. Bear with me…

If we were ‘led up’ to the acceleration point as usual, but on the ‘go’ word (say 10m back) we accelerate from the rear of the group, with the rear riders riding through our team as the accelerate, but the passed riders only accelerate as they see they are about to be passed.

this is actually what I thought the plan was anyhow, but I think sometimes when the dogs at the front get the scent it all goes out the window 🤣

All sounds good – I will try and remember when we come up for an overtake.

It’s looking like this – plan accordingly…

STW @phil56, @munkeymadness, @dangeourbrain, @w00dster, @yanboss, @mbs
MoreSTW @slowpuncheur, @robbo1234biking, @drew, @haloric, @zilog6128, Jack

I’m aware I’m violating some people’s preferences, but that’s how it’s falling for now. Any more A’s or B’s want to jump in and make my life easier? If so, enter Cat A here:

https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1899809

STW are at +13 minutes
MoreSTW are at +9 minutes

Thanks @savoyad.

I will have a look at the numbers and come up with some suggestions at least for the first section.

It’s been quote a while since I’ve been out to play on a Thursday, (or zwift full stop for that matter) have there been any changes to the format for STW or is it still “do what Phil tells you “?

@savoyad is their space in more stw, ive had a tough run session today and wouldn’t last in stw

@karnali sign up – there is certainly either space in MoreSTW or time for us to persuade you STW will not, on this occasion, be too much for you.

I’ve already dumped @w00dster in it, @yanboss has been off the bike for a while, @mbs would probably prefer MoreSTW as well. I’d like to get the Bs right across the two teams. It’s hard today for some reason. A queue of people who’d really favour MoreSTW might indeed result in reinforcing MoreSTW – but it might also result in STW becoming a more manageable ride.

@savoyad i’ll get signed up now

@savoyad done 19.40 A’s

If you haven’t been on for a day or two, there’s a Zwift update to do. Give yourselves a few more minutes prep.

Good point @slowpuncheur.

It makes a change which matters as well: new pack dynamics are now standard in all events. The extent of the change is not actually obvious to me, but something is different now. It seems like pacelines are more important but also easier to manage, and blobs are less effective than previously. No promises though.

I am going to leave it fairly fluid for tonight as follows.

Pull order
Robbo – 60s @ 280w
Slowpuncheur – 60s @ 280w
Jack – 30s @ 270w
Haloric – 30s @ 270w
Zilog – 30s @ 270w
Drew – 30s @ 270w

If Karnali joins us then 60s pulls at 280w.

Aim is to revert to pulls on the flat, blob on the short hills. Through the esses hopefully we can give haloric and Jack rest before we hit the volcano.

On the Volcano slowpuncheur will lead us up at about 3.2/3.3 w/kg – the draft works so this should put Haloric and Jack at about 3.0 w/kg. We don’t want to exceed that as we want to stay together.

After that it is fluid – see how it goes. Keep the comms up and let me know if you want a rest from the rotation. Similar approach up the reverse KOM but it is steeper on the first section so lets go at a good pace for everyone.

If you do join us Karnali then you can cover the back and then perhaps swap with Paul when we hit the flat bit of the volcano in the middle.

Oh and check your tags – there are quite a few wrong ones!

@karnali I can’t put you in MoreSTW, it’ll drag them up a coffee class into frappe. Let’s leave them in latte.

So you ride STW – but trust me (I’m basing this on the team numbers & composition) and @phil56 (he’s a good road captain) that it won’t be inappropriately intense tonight. You can control some of it yourself as well by sitting in. Providing draft is a good service to others.

And @w00dster this is a chance for you to move across to MoreSTW. I think you should ride STW tonight – to help get the intensity right amongst other things. But I know you have a standing preference to ride with MoreSTW. If you insist, go ahead and choose to ride with them. Let @robbo1234biking and @phil56 know your choice – last minute in discord is probably fine; both know what they’ll do with you if you are there! If I’ve got these calls wrong, tell me after the event…

Final lineups:
STW, + 13 minutes: @phil56, @munkeymadness, @karnali, @dangeourbrain, @w00dster, @yanboss, @mbs
MoreSTW, + 9 minutes: @slowpuncheur, @robbo1234biking, @drew, @haloric, @zilog6128, Jack

Check your tags. It’s chaos at the moment. Direct link: https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1899809

@savoyad I’ll ride with STW and hang on as long as I can. I’ll update my tag now.
I’ve upped my mileage over the last few weeks and my legs feel dead, be interesting to see how I get on.

Thanks for sorting, I’ll see how long I can hang on, and hopefully no drop outs this week

@w00dster @karnali You’ll be fine guys, tonight needs to be a steady ride to last the distance. The plan is to ride at a pace everyone can sustain and get everyone to the end together

The key to this is communication – I’ll check, but make sure you let me know how you’re feeling.

We’ll work hard, but not to the point it stops being fun

Cheers folks, it’s been a while but i enjoyed that. Been a while since I’ve been able to make it but pleased I could this evening.

That was great work to stay on briggs and as ever well done Phil keeping him with us.

Really enjoyed that! Probably my best TTT in terms of pacing and feeling good throughout the whole ride… it was a tough pace, but sustainable (apart from right at the end when we were tussling with that other team 🤣) Did struggle consistently hitting target watts for the pulls though… overshooting, then under, then massively over as I tried to compensate 😂 Does everyone else use 1s or 3s power on Zwift for these?

I’musimg 1s power and seemed to have loads of jumping around issues tonight. When I thought I was putting in the effort for 400w I found it reading 500w more than a few times.

thanks STW enjoyed that tonight after a tough run session and first swim back in the lake (brrrr 7 degrees is cold for me) I did find my watts a bit all over the place as well and also slower to respond so did lots of yoyoing through the group. Also i must learn to draft I’m sure it would make things much easier than constantly riding like a stabilser out to the side.
thanks Phil for the slightly easier pace tonight and excellent riding by the other Martin to hang in there on the 2 climbs.

I use 3 second power but would say I struggled tonight to get a consistent output as well. Something Zwift updated in the background perhaps?

Anyway onto the TTT. Well done MoreSTW – that was a great ride. I think we paced it really well. Dont think there was more than a 5m gap at any point which on that route for that amount of time is an amazing effort. We must of got the pace right as we were able to stay together. Great comms as well. We had to lend two of our team to STW tonight (mbs and w00dster) but we seem to be settling in well working together.

We expected to keep STW away until the Volcano so to keep you guys at bay until the KOM reverse was pretty good (from our perspective). We got a little tangled on the descent – thought w00dster was joining our team but forgot you are pretty lightweight so we caught you quick.

I think other than STW only one other team passed us. We made about 4/5 passes I think and pulling through from the back seemed to work really well. We didnt seem to get knackered or have to overdo it on the passes at all.

Some screen shots from the evening.

Nice paceline at the start

Climbing the Volcano – good pace setting by slowpuncheur

The descent of the Volcano

Just beating STW to the Reverse KOM banner!

Robbo, I was doing over 500 watts and couldn’t break free from you guys, Phil was “asking me politely” to get a move on, but it was like I was riding in sand.
I think my brain switched off and couldn’t work out who was who.

In terms of my performance, it was tough. Only 237 watts for the duration which is low for me. But I really struggled to hold anything over 260 watts. I’ve upped my mileage, Tuesdays training ride included 300 watts for 2 minutes at 60rpm, that’s like a squat work out. I then did 30 miles Wednesday morning, legs were really heavy feeling today.

Excellent effort by Martin, much better determination than me. I’d have folded and pretended it was my connection!!