I’ve entered two teams for Thursday, 7.40pm. Just one lap of Casse Pattes – flat, flat, flat, then a pretty hill, plunging finish. It’s short for a TTT at 24km.

I don’t think the new entry system is going live quite yet for the TTT. So for now sign up to category A here:

https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574

And I’ll assemble the teams nearer the time.

The new entry system (assuming it comes to the TTT as well, it was trialled last week so presumably it’s imminent…) just favours the way bigger teams do it: canvas rider availability, then allocate teams, then sign up on zwift. I’ve stuck with our process because the new way round involves an extra step and means committing earlier in the week. We’ll live.

I’m working late for this coming weeks race. I’ll be back, for future ttt’s, I hope 😂

Hi everyone. Five entries for the 24km Casse Pattes TTT on Thursday so far. So space for plenty more. All welcome, teams and pace will be adjusted to suit the available riders.

Join in here, category A: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574

Hi all

We are currently on 6 entries for tomorrow’s TTT (1 lap of casse pattes). So that’s one good team already but plenty of space for more riders as well.

If you are interested, sign up to cat A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1459574

I’ll post final details, start delay etc tomorrow lunchtime. And maybe another “reminder” in the meantime…

@savoyad I’ve signed up. Do I have to add myself to the STW team again on Zwiftpower?

@benman great. Yes you’ll need to tag your rider name again. Bear with me and I’ll say how (it’ll either be STW or MoreSTW) tomorrow lunchtime…

I’m in work. No chance of me materialising back at home either as I’ll be actually working 😭

Just a suggestion but if we have the one team of 7 riders tomorrow then I think you should drop me on the climb. I am at least a minute behind everyone up there and 2 mins behind Phil’s best time. Everyone else in the team is a lot quicker up the hills than me so it will be 7 mins of Z2 for you guys whilst I try and max my HR!

I would suggest that between the Aquaduct and the bottom of the Pettit KOM I put in a big shift and 300W plus to give you guys some rest and set you up for a good run up the hill.

If you go at my pace up the hill it will literally add 1 minute onto the time if not more.

@robbo1234biking absolutely not – that’s not how we roll. We’ll climb at a pace that’s comfortable for everyone and get everyone to the finish together – that’s the ‘Team’ bit and the only reason I join these TTTs

Good try @robbo1234biking.
You can have the same conversation more breathlessly, but with the same outcome, over discord later.

Completly agree with Phil, if our dropping folks was likely to be the difference between top 10 and 110 it might be worth a consideration but we’re in this for the team thing more /rather than the results.

Also much as others might be quicker up the hill solo easing off a bit on the hill alows the quicker riders to work harder and longer on the flat with a bit of a recovery. We always do pretty well on hilly courses and I think the difference between us and a lot of others is we take a more team friendly steady* pace on the hills.

*not exactly bimbling mind!

Well my best up there is 7.29 – I want to get sub-7 so I will shelter at the back on the flats and put in my best 7 min effort to get us over the hill as quick as possible then! I managed 300w for 6min41secs on Tuesday so should be able to do that.

I know I’ve pretty much quit the TTT but to me racing as a team doesn’t have to mean finishing together.

As per Rob’s request above, I’d feel much more of a team player and get more satisfaction from doing something like that and watching the remainder of the team do well whilst I ITT to the end than be the last man holding the team back.

This seems to be an opinion a few others share as well so it may be worth considering racing for results but with people doing the best they can for the team within that. The weaker climbers pulling on the run-in and dropping off etc etc.

I think this would make it a more interesting tactical experience than just “ride as hard as you can” and there’s probably a lot of scope for jumping up the rankings and having more targets to chase this way.

I’m in, haloric jnr should also be there, and I’m reminding @mbs to check in.

I see the arguments for and against a team finish, I’m ambivalent (and also slow up the hills), but I would not object to the fastest group pushing on in the last 5k, when its clear we are all going to finish, it means that everybody should end up with a good workout, those with power to spare can drag who they can to the line.

Although going solo off the front is bad form, I’m looking at you @mbs…

I’d feel much more of a team player and get more satisfaction from doing something like that and watching the remainder of the team do well whilst I ITT to the end than be the last man holding the team back

I think its easy to overlook how much “not being a team player” actually does help the group.

It would be different at the pointy pointy end where everyone is knocking out 5w/kg average but we’re in a mixed group and a category of mixed groups. (admittedly on a course like today the dropping riders thing would work less badly where its flat then a climb to the finish, though I think it’s <6% so draftable?).

Every extra person in that train means the stronger riders can recover better, which means they can pull harder on the front. Having someone who can make consistent of pulls at say 280 in third wheel then rest at 200 in 5th or 6th means front man can do 450w + pulls and rest in the back at 150. That means the whole group goes faster. Take that 280 max effort rider out and rear wheel has to find another 50w, which means they’re losing 50w on their pulls at front. At our level every rider you drop slows the group and, in a mixed group, the slower riders you’re forced to have simply can’t put out the numbers on the front to make it worth burying them – in a proper 1hr ish race for myself race with no recovery, (when I’m on form) my normal 5minute power is about 370w, my 1 minute is 400+, and I’m not the strongest rider in our group. The TTT usually sees me with a lower avg power than normal but it also sees my highest 30sec power consistently 500+) and I’m usually aiming for 400 on the front, repeatedly, and it needs to be for at least 1min at a time to pull forward take front and stay there for a 30 second stint. I simply can’t produce those numbers time and again without folks in the middle.

For the weaker riders to be serving the group better on the front wheel doing a big pull then being burnt instead of in the middle you’d need to be doing a big chunk over that & for a lump of time. Using my numbers if it costs 1 pull at 400 dropping to 350, you’d have to do 450 for a pull to make up for that, 1 pull each for me and 1 other and you need to be doing 450w for a minute and a half to make up for it and so on, if we’re looking for 30sec on the front if you drop in the last 1.5 minutes it’s not a huge loss as everyone should be rested ish fit their final pull, otherwise you’d need to add 50w to “my” effort for every 30 seconds above that, so 5 minutes from the line you’d be looking for 450w for 4 minutes+, (or 750w for a minute if that’s your poison 😉 but then everyone else has to keep up with that too.) and those numbers are to keep the same pace, not go quicker.

I get it might feel a bit less like you’re contributing in the middle of the group but it’s absolutely important to the team.

And for w/kg on a climb?

Anyway – I thought it wasn’t about efficiency it was about “feeling” part of a team.😉

Crikey Brian think that can be summarised as TLDR:

I get it might feel a bit less like you’re contributing in the middle of the group but it’s absolutely important to the team.

🙂

Anyway looking forward to it tonight as always!

Anyway – I thought it wasn’t about efficiency it was about “feeling” part of a team.😉

Absolutely – but surely you’d feel like more of a team if we’re winning? 😉

But in a more sensible response – I get it completely, everyone (me included) wants to be Tom Brady, no one wants to be Aaron Donald. But unless you get to the end having had a lovely pootle in zone 2 all the way round and everyone else is blowing, you’re definitely part of the team.

So do as you’re told and feel like it damnit. 😂

Is there still room or have I missed out?

Still room w00dster – join away!

@dangeourbrain Its all about the hit – surely you want to be Lawrence Taylor – then you get a film career in retirement as well?!

If we’re on 8 and you want a spot you’re welcome to mine woodster. Was an early start today so I’d be happy to get home and ride straight away rather than a later one if that works out better for other people too.

Still space @w00dster. I make it 10 signed up, 11 with @mbs, so you would make 12. Sign up!

I’ll post teams and tags in a sec.

Signed up, happy to be in the MoreSTW team as I reckon my legs will be dead after Tuesdays race.

Teams for this evening:

Team STW, zwiftpower tag (STW)
Start delay 12 minutes so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:52

@benman – sort your tag

@phil56

@dangeourbrain

@yanboss

@w00dster

@trolo1234

Team MoreSTW, zwiftpower tag (MoreSTW)
Start delay 5 minutes so in the pen by 19:40 and off at 19:45

@scaredypants

@zilog6128 – change your tag

@robbo1234biking – change your tag
Jack – sort your tag

@haloric – change your tag

@mbs – sort your tag

@w00dster if you really don’t fancy STW just ride MoreSTW and leave STW with 5. I’ve not taken you particularly seriously though and that team makes more sense with you in it.

Don’t underestimate the Aqueduct KOM. It can be really disruptive, surprisingly hard to stay tightly grouped at that point and then awkward to regroup on the gentle descent after, especially if there’s traffic.
And remember the Petit KOM carries on climbing, at 10%, for 100m or so beyond the KOM banner.

12 mins sat stationary in the pen. Brrrr my garage is cold, I’ll have to do star jumps!!

Are we going on Discord again?

Sorry, yes: each team has its own discord voice channel. I just got lazy in my typing.
You can pedal in the pairing screen (but NOT the pause screen, you have to go into pairing) without moving forwards in the pen.

Thanks for organising Adam!

apologies MoreSTW, something’s come up, going to have to bail on tonight’s ride!

Ok – I’ve regestered for this evening’s race and changed my Zwift Power tag to MoreSTW

Cheers

Catch you later/

Nothing serious I hope zilog.

Thanks, yeah nothing serious!

Sorry for the no-show. Becoming a bit of a theme for me, work’s gone totally nuts this week

No trouble scardey, happens to all of us and frankly keeping the lights on is more important, not much more but a bit.

Cheers for the ride guys. I needed that, unfortunately I’ve now gone from fall down tired to wired!

Cheers @mbs @haloric and haloric jr. really enjoyed that tonight. Some great turns by @mbs on the front and thought we worked really well as a team. Did a really good pass. Got a little disjointed when that team passed us but stayed together well on the aqueduct and Martin did a great job pacing us up the climb – we even managed to pass a team. Shame we lost Ant on the climb. I think Jack got caught out at the top of the climb as the top of the climb isn’t the arch so we split a bit on the descent but managed to regroup for the finish. Think we finished on 39 mins dead. ZP might be struggling so might not see the official results for a while. Thanks all! Good start to the year.

Really enjoyed that, group stayed together really well. Phil did a great job calling the shots 👍🏻

Was Ian on a mtb or just on my screen?

Think we had a tag issue. W00dster had a MoreSTW tag but rode with STW so our final time was based on 4 crossing the line not 3 as we thought – so it includes Halorics time. Makes W00dster’s time look slow mind as it think he set of 7 mins earlier than he did! 😂

Would have been 39 mins but we got 40mins and 7 seconds instead. Good effort up the hill Haloric.

Yeah sorry about the tag issue!! Noticed it after the race. zwift was correct but zwiftpower wasnt, sorry!!

Was really hard to go to the front to do any work on the flat, managed it a couple of times. I’d have to put in a 400 watt effort, drop to 330 watts and remain there for 25 seconds.
Also shows how rubbish I am at drafting, 3.9 w/kg sitting in the bunch.

No worries mate. Hopefully the new sign in system in a couple of weeks will solve issues like that occurring.