Zwift racing – well thats annoying

I dont normally indoor race, but when i do i like a hilly TT. Not used Zwift over summer, last time was last March.

So tonight, onto Zwiftpower, whats the TTs tonight. Ah, a Bologna, super. Lets go enter.

Gets greeted with this in the entry screen. Im uncategorised just now because the gap, but cant even enter the Open A category as standard! Got to do a few rides first. Thats a new one on me, and the ‘scored races’.

I would have thought A would have been open to everyone regardless of category.

You need to do 3 sessions of 10mins+, any effort, then you can enter Racing Score events.

And then you get the fun of the new crappy Zwift Racing Score categorisation. I’m firmly stranded in the 180-350 category, my seed scores won’t let me get relegated, I’m constantly getting humped by cat C/B racers (I’m a decent cat D) and races that end up as pretty much ITTs aren’t any fun after I watch people that can put down way more power waltz off into the distance.

Looks like i need to read up on this new scoring then.

Just read it, looks like i’ll stick to doing routes on mywhoosh.

Im shortl, and light, so a decent hill climber with >4.5w/kg so hold my own very well in B, but because my top end FTP isnt so good, get killed by the A’s – especially on the flats. So think i’ll watch on the sidelines to see how the new scoring works out……

Seed scoring is based on 10 minute and 30 second power outputs not FTP so it may work for you.

Got to say I much prefer the racing score way compared to the cat system, once you’ve done a few and found you’re level it’s much more bunched up, and all those people who claim they are 30kg and ride around at 20w/kg can have their own little battle when they get a score of 1000

So think i’ll watch on the sidelines to see how the new scoring works out……

why? Does your Zwift score actually matter or something?!

Thought i’d tag this on as this is annoying to me too.

https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=4526123

Was looking at this for a quick blast later… Due to the new racing Cats only 7 out of 30 are C despite the fact this is arguably what used to be C cat.

@weeksy , your Racing Score shows as 349, which is right at the top of Racing Score pen D for most races, including ZwiftHQ official ones.

Yeah it seems I’ve dropped a Cat after man flu and a few other issues so I can now race in the one below.

I’m racing at 4.50 today now but torn as to which to enter.

yeah I did my first race since yesterday since getting back on Zwift, very much firmly a D now despite having been (competitive) C under the old system!

My Racing Score is woefully low because although I’ve done a few Zwifts over the last couple of weeks, they’ve just been relatively gentle trundles so I guess this is what it’s used for my seed score 🙂

Very much reserving judgment on the new system until the dust settles, although at the end of the day I don’t care if I win or lose (winning’s always nice though!) as long as I get a decent workout and can find a race-within-a-race, which you almost always can given enough entrants.

Yeah I had a good battle yesterday for most of it but then on a certain small incline I got dropped and was pretty much solo for the last 8km.

Today I’ve got the option now of being strong in the new D group, or weak in the C. It’s a tricky decision

After being told use of 30secs power as part of the seed score was awful for Racing Score since the early beta days in July, it’s supposed to be finally getting scrapped soon and should in theory make pens more representative of aerobic ability.

For ZwiftHQ races I’d currently be a mid pen D, but I’m very close to the upper limit of pen E for Tiny Races, which is currently 260.

Pen E Tiny Races are currently a big enough challenge for me, I struggle to keep with the lead group, as this is typically made up of racers that were in Category Enforcement C when I was a D in the old system. Sometimes I barely hang on and am able to try and sprint for a top ten finish, but equally other times I’m dropped around half way around the race route, especially if there are inclines that take more than ~30sec to climb.

Essentially, finish in the top half for your Raciong Score to increase, finish in the bottom half for a Racing Score decrease… But it can only drop 15% below your seed score, currently from 30sec and 10min power in the last 90 days.

57min race, fighting back the puke now

this shows the problems currently.

https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=4574418

I did a race and finished 17th on the road…. but ended up 3rd lol… seriously, come on !!!

That’s not a problem so much as an event on ZP with old boundaries.

It doesn’t matter what system zwift run there are always going to be people complaining it’s too easy/hard/unfair etc. I’ve found it better so far. The races are harder definitely but it’s clipped off the monsters at the front and those lower in old B making the overall event more competitive. But like racing zwiftracing.app events had done.

It doesn’t matter what system zwift run there are always going to be people complaining it’s too easy/hard/unfair etc.

I wasn’t complaining, i don’t really care in truth, i just want the workout more than the results. The racing gives me the incentive to do that, where i finish it of little importance.

Yeah sorry that wasn’t directed at you more a general comment. Facebook and zwift forums used to be full of category complaints, zwift changed system and now they are full of racing score complaints.

It was interesting as you can still see the racers who’ve raced a lot, sitting at the back of groups holding lower watts than the front (like me).

My race ended on that little kicker up from the dinosaur/diner up towards Titans grove, i know it’s only 3% but these hills cripple me and i managed to hold the lead group, which fair shocked me… But after that i was deep deep in the red and the rest was history. I also knew that after a 55+ mins race at that pace i’d have 0 sprint… So once we got to the last 750m i simple just maintained pace and cruised it… i’d done what i set out for.

I do think it’s harder than it used to be to split the bunch though now. I put in a surge with 12km to go and had to hit 420w+ for a minute just to end up with a 3s gap.. I was hoping 4-5 people would split and come with me, but it didn’t happen… however i doubt i could have maintained it anyway.

Your spot on about splitting, definitely difficult now. Not sure if it’s draft changes or few want to follow. I’ve found that you have to go time and time again (but drop back before overcooking it) till someone will follow. Getting to a 3s gap seems easy enough using over speed from the back of a group but extending from there is tough. Had a bit more success when with similar minded team mates.

I do like lazing at the back for recovery.

I don’t really mind but the system doesn’t seem to have been thought through properly from considering how to set seed scores through to how to amend the racing scores.

Apparently Zwift looked at the outcomes of races and identified that 30s and 10m power gave the best indicator of outcome so used those to sort seed score, which is great but ignores that the races were already categorised by FTP/map, so the assessment is already skewed.

I am a cat D for pace group, a bit below getting bumped up at the moment, but can race so tend to be around the podium places. ZRS of 280 ish places me in the 180-350 category, fair enough, but of the races I’ve done out of 50-60 starters on each probably only 10-20% have been other cat Ds, the rest are Cs and a few Bs, so I’m usually bottom end for both PG and ZRS categorisation. Now fair enough I recognise that I’m on the cusp of cat C and once I moved up I’d be low end there and wouldn’t be expected to win anymore but this cat has a bigger range of riders than if I’d moved to cat C, so I’m racing an even wider range, but those are the groupings so whatever. Of the races I’ve done I’ve generally come mid to low end of the results, generally slightly above where either the ZRS or PG metrics suggested I should be. On both of those races my ZRS has gone down slightly. On the last one I did I stayed away with the main group for a good while so there was a reasonable split between me and the other  glut of finishers which meant that I saw an interim ZRS when I looked at the 1st pass of results and I was 34/37 at that point, by the time all the results were in I was 34/45. Between the two there was a 15 point difference in ZRS impact, also had 10 drop outs from the race as if you quit it doesn’t impact your score. My relative performance is no different whether it finished with 37 or 45 finishers, it doesn’t feel like that should change the score you get but it does appear to. And it also appears to then get impacted by anyone rage quitting because it doesn’t impact scores or dropping out (55 started the race). On the races I’ve done I’ve seen small reductions in my score every time, it’s been offset by a TT result where I won but obviously should have done that saw a larger increase that offset them so I’m still about where I started.

I think they should be looking at calculating an expected finish position across all of the riders and then scoring against that, if they can get that to work then they don’t need to categorise anyway, you can have mass starts. Look at the current TdZ events different groups form up at different places so you generally get a decent ride wherever you are.

Worst thing for me though is because the ZRS scores are generated in Zwift not Zwiftpower, scores incorporate riders with no HR and those using Zpower so it’s a wild west. Zwift bought ZP but have done nothing with it to integrate it properly but at the same time (to be inclusive) aren’t screening race results properly in game. That and I can’t find anywhere to go to track ZRS score history and score against seed score.

Your spot on about splitting, definitely difficult now.

nah, we’ve had this exact conversation many times after Zwift HQ change something. Riding off solo from the front, on the flat, no power-up, seems hard/near-impossible because it is hard/near-impossible (as it should be) and always has been! You need to pick your moment.

@weeksy Full results including those not registered on zwiftpower for your badly configured race, showing post race Racing Scores, that are processed before any DQs…

https://www.zwift.com/uk/events/view/4574418

Now im confused. Looking at Weeksys Zwiftpower race results (and the many disqualifications), and then the Zwift link results.

What was the criteria to disqualify them in WKG, though theyre Racing Score was in limits?

Resulting in 15th, 17th, 23rd and 26th – being 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th on Zwiftpower?

I think the entry criteria ended up racing score, but the race results are on the other system, so they’re all over the D limit…

Clearly a confusion/mistake as much as anything.

What was the criteria to disqualify them in WKG, though theyre Racing Score was in limits?

Because Zwift power uses the PG cat limits to screen. You can look at Zwift where it has everyone including those that aren’t recording HR data or using Zpower proxies or you can use Zwift power that isnt set up to work with ZRS and incorrectly screens.