I am doing the Bologna Time Trial at 18:00 if anyone wants to join in. I last did it just over year ago. I averaged 240W but went out too quick. This time I am aiming for 200w for the first part which is flat and 300w for 10 mins on the hill. FTP is 270w so should just be doable…

Took 28 mins last time, with weight loss and power increase I am aiming for 22/23 mins…

Is it a flat ish ride with one climb then? I’ve not done it at all but if it is that’s likely to suit me so might opt for that over the crit which is a bit flat for me

hmmmm was going to have a rest day after the TTT but I’ve not actually done a proper TT on Zwift before, plus it’s pretty short, so yeah will have a crack at that!!

This is the course:

https://zwiftinsider.com/route/time-trial-lap/

But yeh 3 or 4k flat lead in followed by a 1.3mile 10% average gradient climb. TT bikes aren’t required (climbing bike would be better).

bummer – id love to bolonga is a course that suits me

Cant do it and babys bed time though and its my turn on account of the TTT last night

(climbing bike would be better).

Hmmmm I’m going to go digging, something tells me I should get more from the aero benefit on the much longer flat section than the weight on the climb, I’m likely wrong.

i would have thought a TT bike with climbing wheels 😀

So being a geek…

There should be about 10 seconds for me over the flat section from the most aero wheels [which I don’t have] vs the least

On the climb the same best vs worst comparison should give me 6-7 seconds.

Given my choice doesn’t include 3 of those 4 sets of wheels…

Enve Ses 3.4s (2nd best climbing wheels) vs zipp 808 (6th best aero) both of which I have and neither is terrible

2.1seconds bonus on the flat for the zipp
1.25 on the climb in favour of the Ses.

So wheels for me should see about a 0.8 second advantage for the aero over the weight.

Best in class wheels
Zipp 858 super 9, 5.2 seconds on the flat
Leightweight meilstein, 2.83 seconds on the climb

For bike choice I’ve got a trek emonda (top 3 climbing bike) or the zwift TT (worst TT bike)

The trek should see a 10.2 second improvement on the climb
The TT a 10.26 second improvement on the flat.

Best in class on the bikes
Cervelo p5 14.5 seconds on the flat
Tarmac Pro 8.84 seconds on the climb

Im not sure whether this has previously been mentioned (don’t follow this thread really), but Zwift for under-16’s is free.

i have the mellensteins – got them after being pipped to the post on the line during TFA alpe stage. ….. those would have been my choice . on the shiv disk

On the same comparison the meilenstein are actually slower than the enves

The 3.4s vs the 858 see
3.47 seconds for the 858 on the flat
2.26 for the 3.4s on the climb

3.4s vs lightweight
1.7s for the 3.4s on the flat
0.56s for the mellons on the climb

The mellons are actually pretty slow on the flat but will save you 5 seconds up the alpe at 300W

Of course this all falls apart if you’re going harder on the climb than the flat…

🙂 What time are you aiming for @dangeourbrain? Got to be in the region of 17/18 mins?

I am wondering if I am being a bit optimistic on my 22 mins…anyhow I have only programmed my brain for that much suffering so will have to get it done!

I did a race on Bolognia on Monday where it was the two laps so effectively, Up, Down, Up, Down and though the climb is proper there’s a lot more time on the flat than I’d really appreciated.

I know Dangoeur’s run the numbers but it felt a lot less of a climb than a drag with a climb to me me

I’ll be on my rubbish TT bike kelvin 🙂, I mean it is a TT so I may as well go for it? (and for 6 hundredths of a second wgaf?)

Not sure on times robbo, on paper it should suit me very well. Short flat with a nice steep climb at the end, if I can keep my head down on the flat bit and not bury myself I should manage to kick up the hill nicely (just so long as I don’t try sprinting it like the innsbruck one this morning that I misjudged and over egged).

I’d like to think it’ll be a respectable time but I’ve never ridden it before so will have to respond to the feedback rather than being able to put a couple of kicks in before the start of the climb and given the lag on the turbo that isn’t great on a steep climb. Also I’m not sure after yesterday’s team run what I’ll have left but it’s a short effort so I should be OK. Zwift power suggests I should come in around 18 min give or take so we’ll see. I think if I manage 18.30 or less I’ll be happy enough, sub 18 will be pleased at this point in the week.

Well that was surprisingly awful

Well that was surprisingly awful

on the other hand I found that WAY too easy 😂 had loads left in the tank on the hill when I saw the finish line approaching. I blame @robbo 😉 enjoyed it tho (not done a TT before or ridden that route) and at least it gives me a baseline for pacing the next one! (Still got an FTP bump of a couple of points 😎)

I enjoyed that. 21:22 so bang on where I wanted to be. 266w average. Stuck to my plan and seemed to work. Enjoyed the time trail format.

You got a good time @dangeourbrain.

You got a good time @dangeourbrain.

Annoyingly I dropped a few seconds on in the city and the on climb when it dipped. I was too slow picking up the effort on those so had a few sections where I was at 250-260W or lower and that probably saw me over the 18min mark.

I don’t think being so near the front of the race helped either, I ran out of folk to chase long before the climb, the only people I could see on the list were pulling 5w/kg and when we hit the climb the one person I could see suddenly vanished (58kg according to zp so no great surprise they left me standing)

It’s a rough hill though is that!

That’s a good effort robbo, good to see all this effort paying off and good you gauged it right too

Zwift racing is beginning to get on my tits..

I do a tt and because I’m not a 16 stone brute I get hammered. And I do a crit race and again because my outright power is not great I get dropped within first lap.

So today I decide to drop down to the c cat for a crit race, far easier than b, held my own but predictably left for dead in sprint. No worries at least it was enjoyable and I was in the mix.

Then I get kicked off the zwift power results for ‘cheating’ on watts per kilo. This despite only coming 12th.

The cats need to be designed better. Watts per kilo is a terrible way of deciding what cat you can race in, given it’s totally irrelevant where you place in a race. Basically it’s relevant for the bologna tt and the alp d’huez race, and thats it. Every other event it comes down to pure horse power. All but one rider in the top 10 today put out more outright power, but less watts per kilo than me.

Rant over..

I used best bike split to pace it. Got a load of PR from 12 to 20min and a 6w ftp bump so pretty happy with that.

Good power effort on the climb..

Looks like you went off a bit slowly though! As I said in earlier post that tt is the only one I have a half chance of doing ok in…they need a few more tts with hills!

I went for an IF of 1. For that length I could prob get away with 1.1 or even 1.2 so could do a bit quicker possibly.

I used best bike split to pace it.

Wow, that looks serious! I just tried for “not ow” on the flat and “please be over soon” on the climb.

Zwift racing is beginning to get on my tits..
… but less watts per kilo than me.

It’s a funny one, they’ve got to split it somehow, I think actual ftp would be better rather than weight dependent but that’s because at 81kg I’m neither heavy enough to drop a cat nor light enough to storm the climbs where as just plain W would solve any competetivity issues on the flat for me. The down side is on the hills it would make the light folks impossible to catch.
There’s got to be a better solution but I’m not sure what it is, unless you run a points type system but that’s getting very complicated.
Really I think the issue is there are a lot of very fit folks over 20st and masses of people under 70kg which I’m not sure is entirely honest (it amazes me how many people weigh a lot less than I do at similar height without only having one leg)

, I think actual ftp would be better

Definitely. 95% of the races are determined by ftp on zwift, power to weight is relevant on about 5% so it feels like they have it the wrong way round.

Just to be clear I wouldn’t win the races either way! But it annoys me when I bust my ass, don’t even make the top 10, then get disqualified for apparently being ‘too good’..

don’t even make the top 10, then get disqualified for apparently being ‘too good’..

Thing is I can* make to 10 in b, I couldn’t make top 40 in c.

In c I found on anything hilly I was getting stuffed by people weighing in at 50kg or less, on the flat the top of the field were 120kg putting our 360w and untouchable. I don’t belive either.

I spent enough time playing on line games to realise there are always folks who cheat and they tend towards the lower ranks

Where are all the hilly races then? I know of 2, but if there are road races in zwift that include the hills I may give then a go

Look on Zwiftpower for routes with mountain symbols next to them.

You always choose the flat ones tp

I pretty much always chose the hilly ones. They exist. Look for rides going over epic Kom and over weekend up alpe dzwift.

Anything bar those that say flat in New York Harrogate or Yorkshire will be w/kg led London only really has the one ” climb” the rest are more rollers.

I don’t find it that much of an issue tbh but I’m very much an all rounder. ….too heavy to be a climber not enough power to be a pure TT but powerful enough to cling on and fast enough to drop heavy pure power riders.

Also bear in mind a good C should be a rubbish B.
That you’re to good for C but not competitive in B isn’t a failing it’s the system working.
It’s not great for you I get that but someone has to be at the back, being disappointed not to play at the front is like villa being pissed at not making top four this season.

For comparison, today I was a sniff off being into A* in the TT (circa 4w/kg). I was (in a small field.%) 22nd overall, 2nd in B best I can tell.

My last crit I was 8th in B & 3.9w/kg** had I been an A*** I’d have been 2nd to last and I was ruined.

*based on average power if I’d been riding another 2 mins I’d have been promoted to an A but it wasn’t long enough to generate an FTP.

**depending on when I weigh myself I possibly should be an A, 1.5kg off would see me tick over but I’ve weighed my self on a Sunday evening after dinner for years and I’m not changing that routine for zwift.

***crits don’t suit me the course is too flat and I’m crap at draft, a bit hillier and I’d be an A as I kick on hills.

This is why I lost interest in Zwift for a year before the lockdown. I have a pretty good balance now – I do a lot of TrainerRoad workouts but do them in Zwift for entertainment. The social rides have been great as it is actually like riiding with mates and having fun rather than blasting along. I still dont have a great interest in the races. I enjoyed last night but I only viewed it as racng myself. I might look out for some more time trials now though as I feel that I can at least compete to my best and improve myself.

Dangeour have you done a race on the UCI Innsbruck route? It’s a climb then a descent reckon that could be a good fit for you and some of the other folks on the thread at the minute

Did my first on that route last night, was a single lap TT though so no descent. As a course it suited me well enough and I enjoyed it, sort of!

Ultimately though I’m not much of a racer I’ve a reasonable but not pointy end sprint and I’m a reasonable but not pointy end climber so what tends to suit me isn’t the course it’s getting lucky and having a rubbish field to race against.

I do a tt and because I’m not a 16 stone brute I get hammered. And I do a crit race and again because my outright power is not great I get dropped within first lap.

Speaking as a 15 stone brute i do like zwift’s valuation of big muscley man power – long may it continue.
The game isn’t quite as polarised as all that, though – even on tempus fugit it’s not completely absolute power driven. Did a TT with a friend who is low A, around 12.5 stone, I’m mid B 15 stones and he beat me by 30 secs. Think he did 350 and me 370. So very roughly half a cat diff (based on Wkg) was more than enough to overhaul differences in abs power.

Half a cat is a very substantial difference, mind, but that’s on the flattest course on the books. Like trail_rat says above, just get on something rolling and put the hurt on the fat lads. Some of the hare and hounds routes are lumpy and holding the main B group is v tough once it goes up.

That’s not what i would have expected at all, interesting

Anyone watching the INEOS pro race in by sport?

Yeh sitting watching it. There is talk of a virtual TDF now – 7 stages including Paris held during July. Apparently Zwift are creating new stages which will be good if we gat some new ones.

I watched most of it, had to miss the end because the Crit City race I was riding was starting so went back afterwards to see who won.

I think that until the parcours is changed from the zwift standard issue 1hr effort riders like Dennis are going to be at a huge advantage.

Anyway, enough about them lot and more about me…

9th/48 on ZP in the Crit City Cat C race, rolled off the front of the group with about 700m to go so decided to go for it with an aeroboost and headed that group home quite comfortably. Still a minute down on the front group though – just not quite quick enough to stick with them at the start.

I miss C races. I can hold my own in B for 70% of a race but I’m then done.

Good work dobski

Chris Froome is chasing some celebs up Watopia volcano climb tonight at 7.30. It is on YouTube and sky sports mix.