Young babies on bikes

Damo – we are not discussing children RIDING bikes ( which is what your stats are about) – we are discussing adults carrying them on bikes and yes peoples understanding of risk is completely skewed. Risks are low. Very low.

aracer, thanks for that. I will remember the sarcasm smiley next time

I did open a shop Mrs Grips. I sold kiddicranks, kiddiback tandems, tag-alongs, Babysitter seats and kiddi accesories. It was part of another business and I closed the lot when we decided to play more and work less.

TJ it’s what you personally believe is far from the reality. There are some when they conceive suddenly become aware of how precious life can be; they end up worrying over downs syndrome and all the diseases and deformities that a baby can get,and even tho the risk in their particular group is low, they still feel the need to get every test available and find out what the risks are to their particular child. Some people just smile and say I’m having a baby what what comes comes and if it has SMA, or polka dots I don’t care…
It depends on how life has treated them what culture they are in and what their personal neurotic tendencies may be…
ditto the bike riding/ baby carrying etc…

TJ it’s what you personally believe is far from the reality

You appear to be agreeing with us, mrs?

Edukator you didn’t stay with it long enough to cause the revolution; what happens in the past can affect the future, or it can simply be a blip in the radar or time

Damo – we are not discussing children RIDING bikes ( which is what your stats are about) – we are discussing adults carrying them on bikes and yes peoples understanding of risk is completely skewed. Risks are low. Very low.

That is true, but it does illustrate how much more likely a child on a bike is to die vs a child in a car.

I’m not sure there is any data re children being carried on bikes, do you have any to support your view? Other than anecdotal etc or your own beliefs.

Thats my point MrsGrips – some peoples assessment of risk is grossly skewed.

Such as the slightly higher risk of an accident here compared to the netherlands makes the difference between something being commonplace there to being stupid if done here.

Its a cultural thing not a rational assessment of risk

it does illustrate how much more likely a child on a bike is to die vs a child in a car.

Do you have any stats for kids being killed whilst driving cars? Otherwise it doesn’t illustrate what you think it does at all.

I will remember the sarcasm smiley next time

Which post did you want to add it to – I’m confused as both appear to be serious?

Mind you I don’t know why any of us posted after this. All the points have been made by then

mrsgrips – Member

She’s old enough when her mother says she’s old enough…and when she’s been drilled to be a defensive user of the road like all cyclists should be…

You boys are hilarious. It always breaks down the same way.
Walk away.
It’s obvious you’re not going to change each others minds and y’all just getting worked up about it… is this some sort of way to replace the physical fighting/exercise to show ‘machismo’ which you cannot do any longer because you’re not in a tribal society?

Now that looks risky! Is there anyone in it?

A lot of those paranoias are US/UK specific Mrs Grips. Hand wringing, collective displays of grief, and media scare mongers are more prevelent in anglo-saxon media than elsewhere. I’ve had some of my best flamings on the net with objective, pragmatic posts on UK forums.

Skewed is a negative word in the way that you’re using it. It is different. It is different because we’re not all the same and we see things differently.
The decisions we make as individuals are not necessarily wrong because they are different from the ones other people have made…

For instance I really like blue. If I could color and highlight and decorate all the things around me in blue I would because it would make me happy. Someone else might hate blue and want orange instead. If they decorate their house in orange they’re not wrong. They have not made bad decisions; they have made different decisions from me because they have different criteria.

Such as the slightly higher risk of an accident here compared to the netherlands makes the difference between something being commonplace there to being stupid if done here

Lots of nice wide cycleways there though…?

This is the main road out of where we live:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cardiff&aq=&sll=48.109536,11.726445&sspn=0.063843,0.135784&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cardiff,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.530199,-3.162496&spn=0.007435,0.016973&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.530262,-3.162265&panoid=ht8QaHZxirc-UNGGuCV69A&cbp=12,246.15,,0,20.94

Usually busy, and people force their way through those chicanes without giving way. The pavement is usually blocked with parked cars. This is the worst bit. Having said that I probably would negotiate it on the pavement if/when we find ourselves cycling as a family.

One of my suppliers was a UK company: sjscyles.com

The decisions we make as individuals are not necessarily wrong because they are different from the ones other people have made…

Nothing wrong with not being entirely rational I suppose.

Molgrips – yes it is as the actual level of risk is not much higher. Your perception is the risk is a lot lower in the netherlands, the reality is that its not that much different. the difference in attitudes is cultural not based on reality.

That is true, but it does illustrate how much more likely a child on a bike is to die vs a child in a car.

It illustrates no such thing. Deaths per mile travelled gives readily comparable numbers, but if we’re discussing probability it’s wholly misleading given the huge difference in miles travelled by the two forms of transport — in the real world, in a given year more children are killed in cars than on bikes. More are killed walking along than either.

Your perception is the risk is a lot lower in the netherlands, the reality is that its not that much different. the difference in attitudes is cultural not based on reality

How many times do you get aggro screamed at you for asserting your rights on the road in the Netherlands?

Edukator I would agree. However, you cannot expect people who live within the culture to fully understand what is outside their culture. People view things in relationship to what they know, like it or not. You cannot expect people to simply jump out of their culture and be comfortable and understand all…

Thats nothing to do with the accident rate – its to do with the peception of risk.

This is the closest you’ve come to my point exactly. As a parent I don’t make judgements based on stats on their own. I use my own personal perception of risk based on judgement and experience. You know what, I may even throw some stats in their too if I’m feeling adventurous.

You don’t ride your (motor) bike just based on stats and accident rates do you? you use your vast experience to build a picture of risk. Us parents are no different with our kids, but sometimes we’re not sure so we ask others. Back to the OP again…

And even more are killed in accidents in the home IIRC.

It illustrates no such thing. Deaths per mile travelled gives readily comparable numbers, but if we’re discussing probability it’s wholly misleading given the huge difference in miles travelled by the two forms of transport — in the real world, in a given year more children are killed in cars than on bikes. More are killed walking along than either.

That like saying Space Shuttles are safer because less children travel on them. You have to compare on the basis of some common denominator, distance, hours etc.

Stilltortoise – I just wish folk would be a bit more rational about risk. We would have a happier and healthier society if they were.

We are rational.

What we aren’t is agreeing with you 100%.

You are arguing about how you imagine we think and not understanding (or wanting to listen to) our explanations and reasoning. For that reason I’m out.

TJ just to clarify – if there are two population samples and one spends 1000 hours riding a bike, the other 1000 hours driving, which is more likely to contain more deaths?

pretty similar if you look at in in terms of hours. If you look at it in terms of miles its cycles, if you look at in in terms of trips its cars. HTH

Molgrips – sorry its nothing to do with not agreeing with me but its the inconsistency and the way you ignore facts but place higher weighting on your instinct than on reality that shows your attitude towards risk is not rational. You will take some risks but not others and you vastlyu overestimate some risks.

There’s not been a single relevant fact on this thread TJ you are talking rubbish.

Over-estimating risk isn’t irratonal. It might be wrong, but it’s not irrational.

so if I have to travel a set distance, say 10 miles, it is safer to do so in a car? for the general population of course.

Bye, Mrs Grips. I’m out too, I think I’ve run out of positive stuff to add.

Edit do your journey once and it’s safer by car, damo. Do it over your lifetime and it’s safer by bike – for the general population of course.

Damo read what I posted above.

Molgrips –

Over-estimating risk isn’t irratonal.

Riiiiight. 🙄

Bye, Mrs Grips. I’m out too, I think I’ve run out of positive stuff to add.

You could enquire about helmets?!

You said

If you look at it in terms of miles its cycles

Unless I misunderstood you mean there would be more deaths per mile for bikes vs cars?

I’ve looked at the situation, identified the factors and possible outcomes, and made a guess based on the evidence and hand. That’s rational.

Dismissing something without knowing anything about it cos of say, something I’d read in the Daily Mail would be irrational.

I think there’s a difference.

As a parent I don’t make judgements based on stats on their own. I use my own personal perception of risk based on judgement and experience

If your personal perception of risk is vastly different to what the stats tell you, maybe you should be questioning your personal perception rather than the stats. The human brain is a notoriously bad measuring instrument after all.

And stats can be horribly misleading and misinterpreted…

The human brain is a notoriously bad measuring instrument after all.

This is your turn at sarcasm without the smiley, right?

Where are the stats on bike trailer collisions?