You can't speak the truth any more…

wrecker – Member
I’m certainly not going to defend the actions of the Israelis. What I will say is that whilst I do not in any way agree with the use of WP, I also don’t believe that they shell the Palestinians without provocation. If they want a scrap, then they should bloody well have one away from the civilian populace of both sides.

Continued settlement building could be construed as provocation for rocket attacks, which is provocation for shelling, which is provocation for rocket attacks, which is provocation for etc

“Dark chocco Hobnobs! OMG!!”

I presume that stands for ‘oh my goodness’ woppit? 😀

I don’t know why we’re bothering with this actually. I’ve just remembered that we have a middle east peace envoy. I’m sure it’ll be fine.

😆 yeah, they should parachute that tosser in to Homs

Parachute?

Just drop.

cap’n, have you any idea how hard it is to shoot a fast-moving target ?

yeah, they should parachute that tosser in to Homs

In the name of peace, obviously.

Yes, I have. That’s one I’d like to try, though…..

*Edit – So much so, it posted twice. *

Labour leader Ed Miliband condemned the remarks, writing on Twitter: “No place in politics for those who question existence of the state of Israel.”

What a disgusting thing to say.

Like many others I have a dream, Martin Luther King style, of a Palestine in which Muslims, Christians, Jews, and atheists, can live in democracy and harmony. There is no place for the racist/bigoted Zionist state of Israel in this dream. To claim that this is not a legitimate political opinion is truly reprehensible.

Was watching a Horizon programme last night about nuclear fusion. One statistic that came up was that people in the UK spent more on ring tones in a year than what the country puts towards nuclear fusion R&D. It shows that the world is run by muppets for muppets.

This is bubbling along nicely, I will give it another two pages before it gets the award of the golden padlock. One if z-11 and yossarian appear.

I’d say she does seem to have an underlying anti-Semitic outlook.

Like many others I have a dream, Martin Luther King style, of a Palestine israel in which Muslims, Christians, Jews, and atheists, can live in democracy and harmony. There is no place for the racist/bigoted Zionist state of Israel in this dream. To claim that this is not a legitimate political opinion is truly reprehensible

Does that still work for you Ernie?

I’d say she does seem to have an underlying anti-Semitic outlook.

If you conflate the state of Israel with Jewish people yes.

I’m not conflating anything.

anti semitic – i dont think this word means what you think it means

the arabs are semites too.

It is perfectly possible to deplore what Israel does and yet not hate all Jews.
it works for other countries/people too
I hate what america does with it is foreign policy and someone should reign her in.
Chinas foreign policy and the treatment of Tibet is deplorable and I despise everything it stands for
the cuban govt is a disgrace to humanity and an affront to democracy and I despise all it has done

Would you like some more?

These comments don’t seem at all out of line to me, in fact it seems like the only sane analysis. But the way she swallowed the organ-traficking story suggests she’s a bit too keen to believe the worst of Israel.

binners – Member

Grum. Alright, the actual ‘wipe Israel off the map’ quote was taken out of context

If the quote in the story’s correct, it wasn’t “taken out of context”, it was invented.

Knee-jerk suppression of anti-israeli members. One more reason to shake the head sorrowfully at the LibDems.

100! And a Chinese takeaway! 😀

Does that still work for you Ernie?

Well no it doesn’t, otherwise I might have written it like that.

I reject the state of Israel and its claim to exist on the basis of what is written in the Old Testament. I also reject the Star of David as the legitimate flag of Palestine. Furthermore I reject the right of Jews to have a homeland other than the one they were born in. Jews despite past history are no longer persecuted. There is absolutely no reason for an American Jew, for example, to claim that Palestine is their home or that they are entitled to live there due to persecution.

I consider racism and bigotry to go to the very heart of the Israeli State, and the treatment of the Palestinians, along with the inaction of the global governments, to be an affront to decency and common humanity. I would like the area under the control of the Zionists to be a secular country free of racism, religious bigotry, and weapons of mass destruction.

A tall order I know, and apparently one which is incompatible with the views of the Leader of the Labour Party who claims such opinions have “no place in politics”.

Who would have thought that a Labour Party Leader would support the right of a warmongering country in the Middle East to have weapons of mass destruction to threaten all those to challenge their racist/bigoted State, eh ?

Iran supposedly saying they want to ‘wipe Israel off the map’

Why don’t we just send Iran some new maps? and Stuxnet the shit out of their Wikipedia? Maybe they can find an new hobby, can I recommend reverse engineering shadow plus rear mechs and making a 9sp short cage, oh and making new uppers for fox forks… Both nice commercially viable, non proliferational activities.

Does make you wonder though, why is everyone so paranoid about upsetting the Jewish lobby, whilst apparently we are not upset about upsetting Argentinians, Afghanis, Arabs, etc etc

Ahhhhhh just figured it out we’ve not got to “I” in the alphabet yet

I’m with our Ernie on this; you would think that a people who had suffered such a desperate and dismal assault on their right to exist would stop being such ****s towards others…

The reaction of Miliband shows a worrying lack of understanding of what the term “Anti-Semite” means.Or a useful way to rid yourself of a meddlesome priest. I hate the state of Israel, but have no problem with Jewish people,didn’t know that made me against everybody in the middle east.

Berm Bandit – Member

Does make you wonder though, why is everyone so paranoid about upsetting the Jewish lobby, whilst apparently we are not upset about upsetting Argentinians, Afghanis, Arabs, etc etc

They put a lot of money into American politics

Nice idealism. The longer people think like this, the longer the two sides will carry on killing each other.
The reality is that Israel exists. Being a nuclear state with US backing, it will continue to exist. Like it or not. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just the way it is.
Once this is accepted, there is a platform from which to negotiate. If it is not, there will be no peace in the middle east. So, what do you want; to unyieldingly chase a dream or a realistic chance at peace? They are the real world options

I consider racism and bigotry to go to the very heart of the Israeli State,

Sara and me could live openly in isreal I dread to think what would happen to us in any Arabic country.

Sara and me could live openly in isreal I dread to think what would happen to us in any Arabic country.

I don’t think there’s any serious suggestion that the position of women and LBGT isn’t generally better in Israel than in most MENA countries. But on the other hand, that’s not saying a huge amount because the record in MENA is abysmal, and if you’re a Palestinian woman in Israel, or even an Israeli woman in Israel, I would imagine (I obviously don’t know from first hand experience) that that’s not much consolation that that’s not the reason you have to sit at the back of the bus or being turfed out of your home. What happens in the fashionable districts of Tel Aviv is not what happens in the mouth-frothingly religious districts of Jerusalem for that matter.

The so-called “pinkwashing” of Israel as a paragon of sexual equality in contrast to primitive Arab lands has also been reasonably creditably challenged too. I come to no real conclusions but there are certainly enough question marks. See here for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/opinion/pinkwashing-and-israels-use-of-gays-as-a-messaging-tool.html?_r=1
http://electronicintifada.net/blog/benjamin-doherty/pinkwashing-2008-2011-obituary-hasbara-strategy
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/benjamin-doherty/tel-aviv-worlds-gayest-apartheid-travel-destination

The resistance targeted the military. Suicide bombers generally choose softer (civilian) targets.

But that’s revisionist history – the resistance movement was hardly all blowing up railway bridges minutes before the tank train came along. There was plenty of assassination of “collaborators” and “consorts” as well.

But that’s revisionist history – the resistance movement was hardly all blowing up railway bridges minutes before the tank train came along. There was plenty of assassination of “collaborators” and “consorts” as well.

Hardly innocent civilian targets then.

Hardly innocent civilian targets then.

Meh – the distinction is tissue thin. You’re talking about teenage girls who dated teenage German conscripts and about unpopular town hall officials as well as the Quislings and Dragomir Jovanovi?s of the world.

The reality is that Israel exists. Being a nuclear state with US backing, it will continue to exist. Like it or not.

It has nothing to do with with liking or not liking. The reality is that US global power, influence, and economic supremacy, has peaked and is now in decline, by the end of the century the global balance of power will have utterly changed.

The US, if it still exists as a single entity (and I have my doubts it can withstand the centrifugal forces which are likely to be exerted as a result of its relative decline in wealth and power, and very poor and very rich states, liberal and conservative states, pro-Latin American Hispanic states and pro-Canadian North Eastern states, etc, all start pulling apart with independence movements exploiting self-interests) will be a shadow of its former self, much as Great Britain is today compared to a hundred years ago.

It certainly won’t be able to pour the money into Israel as it does today. And the new economic/military superpowers such as China, Russia, India, and Brazil, will have a completely different set of priorities. If the US pulled the plug on Israel tomorrow it would stumble along for a short period of time before many Israelis undoubtedly would return to their countries of their, and their parents, birth, whilst those remaining would sue for peace. No one considers Israel to be an economic/military superpower in the waiting which can stand on its own two feet.

Furthermore as Jenny Tonge said ‘you reap what you sow’. Forty years ago Israel enjoyed widespread global support, that support has slowly but surely evaporated. And the reason is very clear – Israel’s behaviour. Israel has never much cared what the world thinks just as long as it can depend on unwavering support from the US.

When the US can no longer maintain that open-ended mind boggling level of support, and Israel is surrounded by hostile nations and an unsympathetic world, its demise will be rapid. Not even the threat of a nuclear attack on whoever it decides, will save an economically crippled isolated Israel without any friends. Jenny Tonge is right – like it or not

The geologist in me says she’s right. However, for as long a there are people to remind others Israel exisits, it does.