XC bike for the road vs. flat bar gravel bike

RE shorter higher bikes

Raising the bars in isolation will unweight the front tyre and rob you of any front end grip. At least starting with something shorter reach/steep head angle, and longer stem will regain some of that

You can go shorter reach / shorter FC and shorter stem also. You just learn to corner with a different weight shift that’s more from the hips and an upright torso rather than moving forward to lean in your upper body. Front wheel weighting comes from where your C of G acts between the wheels, bar height influences that but doesn’t really control it so you can adapt to the higher bar if that’s an important spec for other handling or fit aspects.

An XC bike is for going fast under your own power so having a low front is good for that. You don’t want to be sat up straight if going fast on flat/uphill is your goal,

That’s not wrong but it is the reasoning that gave us MTB designs of the early 90s rather than the current shape of MTBs. If a mix of power output and handling ability is what we’re after it’s a compromise point and the aerodynamic gain of a low position doesn’t mean much for most of us when off-road.

OP, fwiw I ride a lot of the sort of thing you’re talking about – open tracks and byways but I want a bike that can ride the local cheeky DHs as well as a few miles of tarmac in between. I have a 650B gravel bike that’s more off-road capable than most and a fairly short, high geo rigid 29er with 2.4s – one is more aero on the road, the other handles fun, flowy off-road riding far better than a road-derived ‘gravel’ bike design will. The rigid 29er’s not as fast as a FS bike o/c but it’s engaging at lower speeds and rewards some handling skills (on the days when I remember what they are). It is a bit slower on road but only due to a less aero position, a compromise for the greater off-road handling ability.

I’d go rigid over cheap sus fork for what you’re describing but again it’s what suits you. If you’ve never tried drops I’d definitely look to see if you can borrow or demo a bike with them. You might find they work well for you. Something wider with more flare than a road bar. I always liked Salsa Cowchippers.

Will be doing just that this weekend, thanks to all of you for the advice.

Any recommendations for an XC (or other genre) bike with a stack around 620-630mm in medium?

To answer my own question, geometrygeeks.bike is the tool to answer such questions. Orbea Alma seems to be an option.

Yep you definitely need to try the options as everyone is different. For example I don’t like wide bars, even on an MTB. I like my arms to be fairly straight and not splayed out which is how I feel with wide bars (risers or drops). I also find distance to bars is much more critical when using drops than risers.

You also really need a long ride or ideally a number of rides before really knowing. I ride a bike where I can literally change the bars in around a minute and change them just before I ride (no brake or gear levers) and I am still not really sure if I prefer drops or risers.

Every time I think of putting drop bars on my rigid MTB I come to the same conclusion as didnthurt, drop bar hydraulics are too expensive. I even looked at the Corner bar but reviews didn’t look promising.
So is there a cheap option to use your existing MTB brakes with drop bars?

I happened upon the Surly Corner bars the other week, I don’t know of anything else nor have I looked.

When I compared costs for 1×11, the full GRX800 groupset was £850 IIRC (now £1k), whereas MTB was £375 (£200 for M5100 drivetrain bits, £175 for a M6100 brake set).

While I agree the gravel/road group sets are more expensive (solely due to shifters) you are not comparing the right group sets. GRX800 is Ultegra/XT equivalent which Deore (M5100 and M6100) clearly isn’t although XT is still only £500.

I have proper brakes on my MTB.

But I’m still fine with cable operated discs on my gravel bike. They are a much cheaper option

Ive recently ditched my gravel bike (NS RAG) and got a cheapish cannondale hardtail, used for road commutes, off road rides with the dog, riding with kids etc. Generally an all rounder and could never get on with drops, was forever tinkering with stems and positioning but decided to go xc bike and dont regret it at all. Ive put some schwalbe marathons on and swapped a few contact points but its a pleasure to ride compared to the gravel bike.

Tried a drop-bar bike over the weekend, hated it. My hands were in pain when in the drops for descents, even the smooth ones. I might well get used to it and condition my hands, but I don’t think I’m interested in that experiment.

Looking at things like the Cotic Cascade (flat bar) and Marin Pine Mountain 2 now, which pretty much nail all the advantages I care about for gravel and XC bikes. Bikepacking or adventure hardtail, if you like.

Tried a drop-bar bike over the weekend, hated it. My hands were in pain when in the drops for descents, even the smooth ones. I might well get used to it and condition my hands, but I don’t think I’m interested in that experiment.

YOu’ll get many here who’ll tell you you’re wrong… I sure did. But it’s your money, your bike… I have a Raleigh Cadent that gets dragged out once a year to head to Belgium for a sportive or two… It’s perfectly great at exactly what it’s supposed to be…

Tried a drop-bar bike over the weekend, hated it. My hands were in pain when in the drops for descents, even the smooth ones.

Sounds strange, my hands are very comfortable when in drops as the least amount of pressure on them due to back position. But then you tried it and you are riding the bike but good to test. I actually find my hands have a much harder time on riser bars as hands/wrists in same position for however long the ride is combined with hands being at unnatural angle.

If the Pine Mountain still has that slightly odd, grifteresque riser bar with horizontal top cross bar, you may want to budget a bit of extra to swap that out. The crossbar makes the bars really stiff, no give at all. Tried one and thought the front fork was borked with all the shocks coming through the bars. Finally figured out it was the bars…….

Some dirty drop bar goodness yesterday. 100k but probably only 20% of it off road so totally not the best bike for the job with the 2.1″ MTB tyres and 36T chainring but I really enjoyed it despite the headwind and tarmac inefficiency.

Went for a Kona Unit X – rigid MTB 1×12 with 2.6″ tyres. Doesn’t need a suspension fork with that big tyre up front. I’d be happy riding it as it is, but will probably swap the wheels and tyres, and a few other bits for ergonomics.

I looked at loads of rigid MTB threads (and an article) on here. Only the Kona and Marin Pine Mountain 2 made the shortlist.

Others I looked at (that I remember):
Brother Big Bro
Bombtrack Beyond
Genesis Longitude
Giant Talon
Merida Big Trail
Stooge Scrambler
Surly Bridge Club
Surly Karate Monkey

Reasons I discounted them included:
Head angle too steep
Seat angle too slack
Seat tube too long
Standover too high
Chainring capacity too small
Rear spacing not Boost
Bottom bracket press-fit
Too much of a trail bike

Owner of a v4 camino with flat bars, not the one on the website, got something built up custom, but effectively similar.
Coming from a camino with drop bars that I’ve had for 4 years I feel qualified to comment. Night and day difference with the flat bar being better in every respect.yea, you can feel it marginally slower at 30km/h plus due to wind resistance but honestly, most of the time that’s not an issues.it’s off road where it really shines. Just more stability, more control, comfier by far. also the seat position makes more sense when descending, not crouched over like some sort of track cycling lunatic. love it.

I have the same thoughts. My 6.4kg drop bar fixed bike got stolen last week so bought a 10kg steel single speed with 680 wide risers (wide for me compared to what I have used in past).

I prefer the new bike and don’t even care about the weight. The drop bar felt faster but the risers are actually more comfortable (I only ride for 2 hours max though), feel much more control especially downhill singletrack and just make the bike feel more fun to ride (which is the main thing)