wow, does this guy NOT like mountain bikers !

Good point, well made 🙂

tyres may cause less of a 'dent' in the ground due to lower pressure per sq inch but, because they leave a groove, water then tends to settle in there and then flow downhill – this leads to soil erosion far more than walkers footprints. You then add braking erosion before obstacles and I can see why a lot of walkers think cyclists cause all the erosion.

Plus tyre marks are far more visible than footsteps because they are continuous.

tyres may cause less of a 'dent' in the ground due to lower pressure per sq inch but, because they leave a groove, water then tends to settle in there and then flow downhill – this leads to soil erosion far more than walkers footprints.

Not true on steep ground though, where walkers kick little steps into the ground every time – pretty sure there was some research which showed this.

Why don't we settle this debate by saying that bikes and feet both cause erosion.

TandemJeremy – Member

On erosion – my opinion from what I have seen – it depends on the terrain but one MTBer causes more erosion than 1 walker on the whole.

I have seen paths ruined by MTBers I have seen paths ruined by walkers Horses are the worst and inconsiderate people are bad for it no matter their transport but all other things being equal MTBs cause more erosion than walkers.

The answer is to be responsible and enjoy your access responsibly

The mode of soil erosion with a bike is different to that of foot traffic, but is broadly similar. On anything with a gradient, ruts caused by bikes can exacerbate water run-off gulleys.

Effective Ground pressure is the largest determining factor, not total weight per-se. Horses are the absolute worst for this – high weight, small foot, nice cutting edge (hoof) to ensure good soil penetration and a backward flick as the foot is lifted means they dig as they go.

Now theres an argument for fatter tyres if I ever saw one. 😛

Overuse for the mechanical strength of the soil (which changes with the weather) is the other major factor.

The land belongs to no one.

The land belongs to no one.

I advise you against using that argument if caught riding on some of the trails in the Trough of Bowland which clearly state
"Private Land belong to the Duke of Westminster"

😉

No doubt in my mind that some local trail are wreacked by mountainbikes

one person's "wrecked" is another person's "interesting challenge". I would rate foot passengers and cyclists about equal, horses x 5 and motocrossers x 50

Twisty singletrack turned into deeply eroded / muddy mess is wrecked. Remember the trails are for all.

i used to go greenlaning on my motorbike, we would moan about the ruts left by the "one life, live it" 4×4 crowd!

anyway, we were out one day and came across a group of ramblers, about 20 of them, we dropped our speed and rode past very slowly, most of them were putting their hands over their ears or holding their noses clearly showing their disapproval of the internal combustion engine. half a mile later we get back onto metalled road, we're in the middle of nowhere, and there's a dozen cars littering the verges where these **** had parked up and started their walk!

CGCC were up there the other month, they took a keg of bear with them and (I think) rode on non bridalways. they got a big spread in this months dirt mag

lol, I forgot about that Podge, not a great way to calm things down / get the Blacka people to understand MTBers needs.
The Concesionary bridleway by the wall is closed at the moment BTW.

You think that guy is bad?

Check this kook out..
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i'd be delighted for someone to show me some twisty singletrack that we're allowed to ride on…

There's a Blackamoor Reserves Advisory Group (RAG) meeting on Wednesday, at totley rise Methodist church, between 7 and 9.

One of the agenda items is 'Motorbikes and mountain bikes' – it would be a shame if no-one went along to represent,

I can probably make it, anyone else free?

Wish I was nearby. Check the same link again, he's retorted. Apparently some among us are less than intelligent with our responses, if you believe him. Mind you, no-one would know as he won't post any of the comments people send to him, likely because they pose a credible argument to his points.

thepodge

Have read the Dirt mag article and can see that the Blacka Blogger does have a point to make. Pity really.

there's loads on blackamoor

😉

Victor **** Meldrew!

Re…erosion…did my usual local loop(mix of cheeky, bridleways and quiet lanes on both Sat and Sunday this weekend, it was a bit claggy in places but my tyre prints were shallower than bootprints…and hoofprints were way deeper again. On the Sunday loop the previous days tyre prints were totally obscured by walkers boots on the cheeky bits,(mine were the only tracks visible) so I reckon the walkers round here:- A. outnumber bikers and B. cause more damage

Re. pace yep we probably do travel faster..It's called fun!…odd concept for ramblers!

A lot of this is age related too…rambling seems to attract more than its fair share of older people who can be somewhat dogmatic…or even plain miserable

OK, so who's going to own up to chucking plastic wrappers and drinks bottles and (most oddly) beer cans around while out mountain biking? The guy insists he's seen this, and the drinks bottles in the hedgerow line has been used before I think.

Certainly it's not something I've ever seen, nor can I understand how it would happen – a can of lager is something I'm very unlikely to put in my backpack (though a pint of Lord Marples at the Cricket Inn might go down well after Blacka Moor), and my drinks bottle definitely doesn't get thrown away each ride.

Does this happen, or is the guy mistaking local yoofs from Totley for 'mountain bikers'?

OK, so who's going to own up to chucking plastic wrappers and drinks bottles and (most oddly) beer cans around while out mountain biking?

no but i've picked a rucsac full a few times from the top and bottom of the down hills at wharncliffe (though WRC did improve this)
beercans more likely from mx yoofs
redbull is the can of preference

as in post above most people don't differentiate between yoofs, mtbs and motorbikes

Certainly it's not something I've ever seen, nor can I understand how it would happen – a can of lager is something I'm very unlikely to put in my backpack (though a pint of Lord Marples at the Cricket Inn might go down well after Blacka Moor), and my drinks bottle definitely doesn't get thrown away each ride.

Who'd carry anything fizzy on a bike off-road ? It'd be like this when you opened it:

A lot of walkers are complete miserable bastards, there seems to be a significant proportion that disappear into the hills because they hate society and people in general. I do a reasonable amount of walking, and running and biking, so I'm pretty fit. I grew up in the Lakes, know most of it extremely well, have a good sense of direction and can read the weather well enough to not end up getting lost/wet/cold/dead. I get all kinds of dirty looks and comments when I'm out and about if I'm wearing a pair of jeans.

It's as if me being up high and walking in a more relaxed/casual attire somewhere they consider a challenging day out cheapens the experience for them. Blencathra in the snow at Christmas was a particular highlight with the crampon brigade.

These sort of walkers simply aren't happy to share 'their' hills with anyone else and you just have to let them get on with it. They're my hills by the way.

The thing is, in the Lakes if I go up Helvellyn I often get asked by walkers if they can take my picture, they're more amazed that people could get a bike up there, than objectional to your presence, especially as riding onto the top is feasible and gives the impression that you've ridden the lot. But if you drop down Scarth Gap pass, then have the audacity to ride around the back of Buttermere Lake, you will be abused left right and centre. There seems to be a good correlation between attitude and altitude. Ie the miserable selfish **** tend to be too unfit to get to the top.

I wouldn't worry about this crank too though!

oh dear, he think he's touched a raw nerve, i think in general, our community (if we must be pigeon holed) is a bit to laid back to be comcerned with raw nerves, yesterday one of ours went over the bars downhill, covered in mud and sheep shit, once we'd determined that nothing was broken we all pissed ourselves laughing, not a raw nerve in sight.

as for

certain groups gather together virtually via the internet to reinforce their beliefs and shut themselves off from a wider perspective

this guy is exhibiting one of the most narrow minded attitudes i've ever witnessed, basically you agree with him or you are wrong.

paulrockliffe – A lot of walkers are complete miserable bastards

to be fair, we came accross probably 30 walkers yesterday, all greeted us with good morning, one advised on a less sticky route to the next gate and two held gates open. clearly we all saw things from the "wider perspective"

Judging by the mess you see at some trail centres, there are mountain bikers who take all sorts of snacks with them riding and just dump their trash by the side of the trail. I doubt many would admit to it here, though.

Yeah Stu, I wasn't saying all walkers are like that, there are a lot of friendly ones too. More miserable bastards on the way to Angle Tarn from Langdale than friendly ones yesterday though.

This singles him out from the walker whose pace is slower allowing him to look all round as he's walking thereby feeling more related to the country he's going through

we cover more ground though, so i imagine that evens it out?

pesky walkers, walking so slowly, not seeing things over an area of more than a few miles.
tsk

I love being extra smiley and friendly to any glum walker I see on a ride, it must be a real pain for them to be greeted in a friendly manner and have to be miserable. I see it as a duty to lighten their dull day. Have heared that the Ramblers Association run courses on how to be miserable to all around, you can then wear your red socks with pride.

This singles him out from the walker whose pace is slower allowing him to look all round as he's walking thereby feeling more related to the country he's going through

we cover more ground though, so i imagine that evens it out?

pesky walkers, walking so slowly, not seeing things over an area of more than a few miles.
tsk

Doesn't this highlight the beauty (and horror) of the internet? I guy vents his spleen at the world and we sit here bitching about it! 😀

Seriously, my family have some friends who live near Shap. They're really into the walking (written 3 books, I think). Anyhoo, they're lovely people, always have a great time wtih them. The gentleman-half of this couple decided he would wave a giant red flag of generalisations around, just to get rise (it works with my Dad on politics). 3 years later, after much discussion, we have agreed to disagree. But we've also agreed to have a go at each other's "poison".

Some people just won't believe they could be wrong or misinformed. Afterall, if it's online, it must be true! 😉

My 2 cents done.

I do wonder why some folk go out in the country, they look so miserable (not just ramblers either). Surely if you feel like that a beverage of your choice by the fire is a better alternative?

I have to agree that he has some valid points…

And he seems to suffer from some similar prejudices to many members of the cycling community, Lets be fair there’s a fair few cyclists who are similarly grumpy old farts just with a couple of wheels under them…

While it’s worth looking at walkers as a kindred group with a similar agenda to MTBers (Land access, Right to roam, etc) they do have different priorities to many MTBers, most importantly they do seem to place more importance on preservation and conservation or the natural environment (depending on your definition of that)…
Say what you like where we turn up in any number we do have an impact on the environment, not that we are totally oblivious to it, or deliberately cause damage, managed trails are maintained so as to limit the impact of the sport but we are a very visible group leaving obvious signs of presence when start using a bit of land, this is probably what has attracted his distain in the first place…

He also seems to take exception to the fact that we communicate and organise as a group via the internet, Can’t say I see that as a flaw, in many ways it makes us a stronger, better informed community, odd also coming from a man who Uses the WWW as his soapbox but still, life in black and white is simpler for some…

In the grand scheme of things this fella’s Blog doesn’t mean a great deal, the grumpy musings of a rambling nature lover he’s entitled to his views and to publish them on his blog, there are plenty of counter points to be found elsewhere on the web.
The problem (or indeed the advantage) with Blogs is that they are about as effective as posting your views on a web forum, 5 minutes of angry ranting from either side and within a day it’s buried in amongst the plethora of other interweb rants that nobody can be arsed to remember or act on (often the originator included)…

This guy is the British cousin of Mike V******n 😀

come on guys hes just trying to walk in the contryside!

I do wonder whether some walkers get confused and think us the same as MX bikes.. certainly a few of the miserable gits around the Peaks class us the same.

Actually, has anyone noticed an interesting phenomenon? Walkers up big hills, proper mountains and in inhospitable places in general, seem to be much, much friendlier to bikers than those pottering around the foot hills / lanes with their Goretex and carbon pole things.

Certainly on Snowdon for example, the walkers at the top seem to have great admiration for bikers having hoiked 30lb of bike up there… whereas the ones pootling around the bottom after their pub lunch seem to think us the devil in baggies…

just a thought

You could substitute the word cyclist for walker in the blog and it would read the same.

An inconsiderate person is an inconsiderate person regardless of what they drive / ride or walk.

How many times have you ridden towards a large group of people walking four abreast towards you, spread right accross the bridleway and refuse to give you room?

Littering is a pet peeve of mine too.

From what I read of the blog they seem like a selfish person. Fair enough, they don't affect my life.

RopeyReignRider – Member

……………..

Actually, has anyone noticed an interesting phenomenon? Walkers up big hills, proper mountains and in inhospitable places in general, seem to be much, much friendlier to bikers than those pottering around the foot hills / lanes with their Goretex and carbon pole things.

Yup. From a series of discussions on here and my own observations I believe that the further you go from the road, the worse the weather and the further north you are the better reception you receive from walkers.

In the highlands in winter I have never come accross and issues