Winter Tyres – Compound Vs Tread Pattern

Hey folks, it’s been a while since I asked a question here… The title kind of says it, but here is my context:

I ride across UK, but only for specific trips. My local woods are flat with 20-5o sec gravity runs intermittently available. The surface is soft with roots. The mud is very sticky and will clag tyres as soon as the winter sets in.

I realised on some recent trips around UK like Ard Rock for instance… that a wet tyre choice in Yorkshire is such a different concept to me finding a suitable tyre for my locals.

When there is so much gravity fun to be had, the compromise of compliant casing and rolling resistance over durability and lack of squirm was easy. The way down is not te be messed with. It’s serious and you need strong tyres…

But for my locals I’m really stuck, as it seems so many reviews have to account for bike park use or even just the sheer number/proportion of Northern riders?

So…. Let’s say the Shorty really is as good as everyone seems to say… How to prioritise the grip from compound over the tread pattern and casing or visa versa? That’s if the combo even exists?

For mainly flat but technical and tight singletrack, with lots of mud and roots… I was presuming a soft compound with very compliant casing makes sense? I don’t need to protect the tyre from rocks. But do I need firmer compound to dig into slop? Is it at that point that the compound immediately loses out on roots because its gotten harder?

BTW due to the inane childish naming games played by the tyre cos I’m using logic not brand terms. ie

Compound – Soft, Medium or Hard

Casing – XC (V Compliant but weak), Trail (Compliant and strongish) Enduro/DH (Not so compliant but Strong.

I’d love to know what people are riding as tread combos F & R along with casing and compound. But it’s most useful when paired with a description of terrain ridden.

Peace Love and Grip

The way I see it, compound is relevant for hard surfaces like rocks and roots. Tread pattern is relevant for soft surfaces like mud, sand or loose stone etc.

There’s some overlap in there. (maybe we need a Venn diagram?)

If you’re only riding soft surfaces and have no rocks or roots to contend with, then a soft compound tyre is (IMO) pointless.

I tried a MaxxGrip DHR recently and it was excellent on technical climbs and rooty or rocky stuff but made sod all difference to grip on steep, loose descents. The soft compound may well have done a great job of sticking to the loose stone but the loose stone had no intentions of sticking to anything while the tyre dragged it along.

As for carcass, I’ve always run less stiff tyres in the form of Maxxis EXO

For the last few months, I’ve been on Bontrager SE casings which is a stiffer carcass.

I prefer the stiffer carcass at lower pressure over the softer carcass at higher pressure.

With the SEs, I’m running ~16psi whereas the EXO tyres would be 22ish.

The stiffer tyre at lower pressure is much more compliant and gives (me) better grip. I only tend to ride natural stuff. It might be a different story in a bike park setting where cornering support is more important. If I ran the EXO tyres at much below 22 (on the rear), they would squirm and bottom out all the time.

The SEs are a 50a rubber which is somewhere inbetween MaxxTerra and MaxxGrip. I’d say medium to almost soft. I’d like them to be softer compound for rocky stuff in the wet. I think the Maxxis 3C is about perfect with the softer rubber in the centre. My riding is a mixture. Surrey Hills, Peak, Wales, Shropshire so a bit of everything terrain wise.

I still haven’t found a perfect tyre for all of my riding and I doubt it exists. The question becomes how much of a compromise are you prepared to make? The grippiest tyre with the most aggressive tread is going to wear out fast and be awful to pedal.

Something that pedals well, won’t grip as much.

I’ll probably change the Bontragers for something else. As all rounders, they’ve been pretty good. 90% of what I want but I want the front to be softer rubber and the rear to be more controlled under braking. I think probably a DHR in EXO+ (medium compound, ‘trail’ or ‘enduro’ carcass by your scale) for the back and something that isn’t a DHF on the front. Again, enduro or trail type casing but soft compound.

The most recent Cathro vid on Pinkbike covered it a bit, basically in really gopping muddy conditions you want hard compound spiky tyre to cut into the mud and soft compound lower profile tyre to generate more friction on roots/wet rocks. Seeing as the 2 are contradictory requirements it comes down to the balance of that that suits you best for the conditions you are in most.

My current favourite slop set up is an Argotal 2.6 Enduro front and Kryptotal Enduro 2.4 rear. Argotal has decent tread shape to grip loose ground but the 2.6 and softish compound means it has enough grip on roots and rocks. Kryptotal rear is grippy enough with a predictable break away. Just about to swap back to this off Kryptotal F&R which works well most of the year tbh.

The mud is very sticky and will clag tyres as soon as the winter sets in.

In that case I’d prioritise mud clearance, as a packed up tyre will be no good on anything regardless of the other factors you mention.

I rarely ride in the type of mud you describe, but last time I did I noticed that my Conti Kryptotal Re Trail/Endurance was running clear, while my Conti Der Baron Projekt BlackChilli (like the modern Soft) was clogged up despite being a more open pattern.

On that basis, I’d consider a that former tyre front and rear. The Fr version will be more prone to clogging up. For even better clearance at the expense of rolling resistance, Argotal in the same compound.

However for my own riding conditions I’m currently on Michelin Wild Enduro Front Gum-X. Lot of cornering bite from the side knobs and square profile. Not been in sticky mud with it.

As others have said it’s definitely a balance. Like, why a shorty in maxxgrip shines over the same tyre in maxxterra is when you’re doing mud with hard stuff in. Pretty common in the tweed valley frinstance, you can have a pretty sloppy trail with an occasional decent sized rock (not a big rock feature, just like a head-sized rock or little step or whatever) and suddenly you’re testing 2 different aspects of the tyre and if either one falls short you’re in trouble. Most trails aren’t really homogenous outside of full on armoured trails so while a tyre can be good at one thing or the other sooner or later at the pointiest end you’re going to want it to be both, and I don’t care if it’s 10% slower if it saves me crashing even once…

But there’s other stuff that’s less tangible. Like, for me softness gives tyres confidence beyond the actual real grip. A harder tyre can be still gripping but feel fidgety and scrabbly, so it gets the job done in a way that makes you think “what if it doesn’t”. Whereas a softer one might actually not do anything better but it will often feel nicer and that lets you use the grip it has.

But then that can flip over, a really soft spiky tyre like, say, the ancient slow reazy maxxi could feel absolutely horrible because they were bending and walking all over the place.

And that’s also got to be a really personal thing, much like tyre pressures, so takes us away from good vs bad.

“wet tyre choice in Yorkshire is such a different concept to me finding a suitable tyre for my locals.”

Yorkshire is a huge county with lots of different soil and rock combinations!

@stablebarns where in the country are you?

For mainly flat but technical and tight singletrack, with lots of mud and roots

Flat for me wouldn’t warrant a super sticky tire. I have a max grip shorty that I will only pedal up hill if it was super steep down. Very draggy.

Mud= blocky tire like a shorty

Roots= butcher/ dhr2 with less gaps between them

I think that with that mix there is no perfect tire. Nothing does all of that perfectly. The perfect root tire is the opposite of the perfect mud tire.

Full suss is on butchers in sticky rubber, mid casing front and rear. I’ve got a sticky hillbilly to try this winter.

My hardtail has mid sidewall butcher ront and V2 purgatory rear. The V2 purgatory is good for everything but slidy mud. I’ve got a V3 purgatory to try this winter.

So I’d suggest a blocky tire with thin ISH side walls and a non sticky tread.

Shorty/ hill billy/ Mary in your compromise of casing and stickiness. I like specialized as they are good and frequently £25 per tire. 2 butchers, 2 hillbilly and 2 purgatory in the sales this year for £150. They should keep me going for a couple of years at least.

Fantastic replies! Sorry for my late reply and gratitude. Been so long since i was on STW that my notifications were off.

I am really going to have to review the proportion of mud to root in the local woods. I get that these naturally connecting terrain elements are opposite in there tyre demands.

My local woods are red claggy / clay based mud, but also with some roots. My favourite tyre there when it’s wet and greasy or sloppy is a 2.6” Hillbilly T7 Grid Trail (previous design). It doesn’t clog easily and just finds outrageous grip. I’m not convinced any tyre finds grip on wet roots – maybe softer rubber / lower pressures would make it better – but at 18-20 psi in those conditions it does a decent job.

To be it doesn’t seem to drag too badly – my other front tyre the rest  of the year is a 2.4” Kryptotal / Enduro soft. I think the Kryptotal has softer rubber and a heavier casing.

Not sure if the new Hillbilly is as good at clearing mud – but haven’t tried one yet.

I also have a 2.6” Magic Mary Addix Soft / apex snake skin casing front tyre for my hardtail. Vs the Hillbilly it clogs a bit more and doesn’t brake / turn quite as well in thick mud. On hardpack I think both tyres are broadly similar – the earlier Hillbilly (gripton / grid casing) was worse though – you could feel the knobs bending and the grip getting a bit unpredictable on hardpack.

/\ do you not need to consider riding style,  ability, as well as tyre PSI and whether using inserts..

I’ve never managed to destroy a regular Maxxis carcass at ardrock in 6-7 years, that said i now use rimpact, and have never troubled the podium.. :0)

as Simon above says yorkshire is a big place.

an assegai seems to work well upfront with a dhr rear for me pennines holmfirth/marsden/ hebden and peaks.

i was up cutgate a week back in miserable weather, very wet and windy, felt like winter, grip was perfect.

its next to useless in mud, hence a couple of stages at AE forest and last weekend at Bollington enduro was hardwork riding late in the day after 500 riders had been through,

looking at tyre choice of the podium riders magic mary’s are popular.

my next enduro think i’ll take a spare front wheel with a Shorty or Mary ready to change over

I have 2 sorts of woodsy trails near me. One is sandy-based soil so almost any reasonably treaded tyre will do, but the roots are slippery, so Butcher T9s work. The other  is chalk/clay based. Then a more open blocky tread works, like the Wild Enduro Front. Some of the fast locals are on that tyre front and rear with inserts as the WE Front is a lighter casing than the rear. Wet green chalk, nothing sticks to that..!

I’m not convinced any tyre finds grip on wet roots 

Agree – that was my first thought reading through this.

Mud you definitely need something that will cut through the slop to find grip – imo this is more about tread pattern (‘spikes’) rather than rubber compound, indeed a soft compound deforming a bit will probably help mud clearance which is the other piece of the puzzle. Tyre width is important too – a more narrow tyre will cut in more, eg CX tyres are definitely more grippy than 2.2″ XC tyres in slop (and fat bike tyres are famously terrible in mud), but of course there’s your compromise as you don’t want a 33mm tyre. I’ve got some 2″ Bontrager XR Mud which are great for mud…but not really much else, which is presumably why they don’t sell them anymore.

TLDR as everyone says, you may have to compromise.