Winter ’24 training thread – what you training for and how?

The mega thread of yester-year had possibly gotten too mega so thought I’d start another one.

I’ve been enjoying trying to piece together a training plan for next year. Partly just for general purposes, but tailored towards the Grand Old Dukes 180km gravel event in June. Prior to that I have a couple of big rides of my own that I want to do (a 180km ‘Sunday in Hell’ route and one or two big gravel days) so clearly endurance is the name of the game.

Thankfully I’ve got lots of time to play with so November/December will be relatively unstructured base miles with a sprinkling of intensity, so easy 3-4hr road rides at weekend and maybe one early fasted ride per week, supplemented with a midweek turbo sweetspot session or lunchtime smash on the CX bike. I’ve also got some longer winter gravel rides that I’ll mix in, but by necessity these often go beyond ‘easy Z2’ just to keep the wheels turning in the mud! So the rest of the week would just be easy to compensate.

I’m doing functional strength stuff right now (isometrics for some tendon issues and hip thrusts/lunges and hamstring curl variations for leg strength) plus just general core stuff.

January/February I might move strength to the gym just to use some machines and work in some good reps and weights for pure strength. Experience has taught me that my low back will never put up with deadlifts or squats unfortunately. My dilemma is how to work in two strength sessions with the short/sharp turbo session I also want to start doing (probably just 2 x 1o x 30/30).

March/April/May will be about keeping that sprinkling of high intensity (working towards 2 x 13 x 30/30) but adding in longer threshold stuff, working up from 4×4 intervals to 4 x 8 or even up to 4 x 10. I figure this is better than sticking to short sharp intervals as I’m aiming for endurance rather than peak power. Happily come April May I’ll be doing the sorts of intervals that I can move outdoors onto my favourite local gravel segments or road segments, so I can actually have some fun while doing it! This might sacrifice workout quality (outdoors would be HR only) but I’m willing to make that compromise.

All the while trying to build up to longer and longer weekend rides, I’ve got an opportunity for a compressed working arrangement so should be getting some epics in every second Monday!

Anything else I should be thinking about for ‘big day’ fitness?

What are everybody else’s goals?

I’m determined to find the balls/skills/fitness to do another (easy) DH race. I find my speed and the tension of being chased in practice by 200 fast kids really hard to justify my place on the start line and mostly finish last. I don’t mind being last, but it’s the gap between last and not last that bothers me most. It’s too big for me to again justify my space on the start line.

The new bike has really kick-started my riding/training again and i’ve been putting in more miles than i have for a year or two lately. But of course i need to work on the skill side of things and will be getting either Katy or Sam out and paying them some money to get me faster and better. But affording that and again justifying that to myself over paying for an IXS for the boy etc is REALLY hard for me to do.

I’d just like to come down a Stile Cop or FoD race and see my name not at the bottom, the very bottom or at least think “yeah that was OK”.    Strictly speaking i’ve thought that before at the end of a race, Elephant Man at FoD for example i came down with “yeah that went OK” but the gap was HUGE to the person in front of me.

Downhill training is a different world for me, the ‘easy Z2’ equivalent must just be smashing laps and pushing skills (e.g. bigger jumps etc?).

I imagine trying to do all that in winter off-season would also hone certain skills that might be less useful in summer!

I might have accidentally entered the Etape de Tour. It’s coming right past our chalet door this year and is on roads that I know well, so I thought, why not give it a crack?

Well, because I’m not a roadie, only just bought my first ever road bike and the longest ride I’ve ever done was probably about 60km, that’s why not.

On the other hand, I’ve done plenty of ~60km off-road races, which easily translates to 100km+ on tarmac. I’m pretty fit (ride mountain bikes for a living) and the climbs / altitude  / probable heat don’t worry me as I ride here all the time. I’ve ridden most of the cols on the route on an enduro bike!

I’ve had a bit of a break from intense riding over the past month or so since the end of our season, just enjoying a few trails now and again as I was pretty burnt-out at the end of the summer. Back home again now and have been out smashing big climbs on the road bike. Did the last 3rd or so of the Etape route the other day, no dramas at all. Going to keep that up as long as I can, but winter is approaching very fast and road riding is going to become difficult and I’m going to be working hard (snowboard teaching / guiding). My plan is to keep my fitness up with lots of splitboard touring over the winter and getting the odd turbo trainer session in to keep the legs in bike mode. Once March comes around and things start to calm down and warm up a little, I can get the bike back out now and again. Serious training will have to wait until April. It’s really just going to be mileage, mileage, mileage and vertical, vertical, vertical. Don’t have any great intentions of doing anything more sophisticated than that. I already do a hill-sprint session at least once a week, so I’ll keep that going for a bit of pace work.

The other thing is just making sure I keep the weight off. I dropped from 85kg to 75kg a year or so ago and have stayed there pretty comfortably. Need to keep the beer and cake at arm’s length over the winter.

Every year I promise myself I’ll not enter any more events and yet I always seem to have “just one more” thing I want to do. For 2025 I currently have Ride to the Sun in June and the Glenmore 24 in September. The former simply requires that I maintain a decent level of bike fitness. The latter will require a bit more (careful) extension of running fitness.

The only fitness program I’ve ever attempted was building up to an ultra marathon last year and I think that worked, so I guess I really should try something a bit more structured than my usual let’s see what today brings approach, but I’m lucky enough to have sufficient free time that I can chop and change plans according to the weather and the availability of riding and running friends so I find it hard to conform to the structure of a plan.

In short, keep riding, running, stretching and lifting, hoping to at least maintain my overall fitness despite the aging process.

The other thing is just making sure I keep the weight off. I dropped from 85kg to 75kg a year or so ago and have stayed there pretty comfortably. Need to keep the beer and cake at arm’s length over the winter.

That’s a big challenge for me also, I’ve crept up from 85kg to 90kg and am struggling to get back down (although haven’t been trying all that hard…).

I used to aspire to getting down to 80kg but lightest I ever saw was 84kg.

Not honestly sure how big a difference it would make for long days out so not going to starve myself too hard, maybe just try and get better at feeding during and after rides to avoid hypo-glycemic pigging out when I get in the door!

Downhill training is a different world for me, the ‘easy Z2’ equivalent must just be smashing laps and pushing skills (e.g. bigger jumps etc?).

I imagine trying to do all that in winter off-season would also hone certain skills that might be less useful in summer

I see the kids who improve over winter and they carry that into summer the same as through winter. This year for example my lad went racing in April and in 1st practice went past 3-4 lads we know who he’s raced before and not seen over winter “who the F*** was that” said one of them “i think that was weeksy!!!! ” was the reply from another… They were shocked he’d picked up so much speed and that carried on throughout the year.

But he was far from alone on that and lots do it over winter, so i’m guessing the skills transfer.

Sadly for me, i don’t think the answer is just ‘more laps’  i think that may find me 5% or maybe even 10% but i need 25% lol… The gap is THAT big…

Where i find it weird is that when i go out with ‘normal’ people, i can hold my own and push on well…. but when i get to a race, the game is upped and the people are just faster…

I’m just going to try and ride regularly after nearly a year of not doing so. No goals, no races, just riding. I am very weak through my shoulders right now so the ancient xc bike is out and no big jumps or drops until I improve my basic strength a bit.

Not training for competition, but entry for Etape Loch Ness and a plan to get back up to 200k audax next year to give a bit of focus to losing 10kg.

I’ve got as far as needing to see a physio tomorrow as I’ve damaged my knee. Bugger.

Just throwing this out there but the running group at work were discussing using AI to get ideas for training plans. I gather (I’m a luddite) that you enter a goal/target, give it an idea of where you are currently and a reasonable plan came back that could be tweaked to suit.

I’ve got as far as needing to see a physio tomorrow as I’ve damaged my knee. Bugger.

Ah, well this is where I have been for most of the year with a torn rotator cuff. Lots of physio and exercises. Last physio session next week hopefully. I have got quite strong again for bouldering/climbing now, but it’s the resistance to sudden loads through the bars on a bike that’s lacking a bit now.

Good luck with your injury recovery.

Good luck with your injury recovery.

And with yours! Had shoulder problems on and off for a few years due to nerve damage from crashes.

Never damaged my knee before, and although it doesn’t hurt while cycling/jogging, it’s bad afterwards so I’ve just gone straight to the physio to get a view on what it is, what is causing it, and what I can do to resolve it and/or train round it.

Just throwing this out there but the running group at work were discussing using AI to get ideas for training plans. I gather (I’m a luddite) that you enter a goal/target, give it an idea of where you are currently and a reasonable plan came back that could be tweaked to suit.

I reckon it would be too generic or too ambitious, I saw someone’s AI generated plan and with my limited knowledge (almost all gleaned from Youtube vids) it was still obviously laughable. But I don’t like AI for AI’s sake anyway.

Watch some Dylan Johnson on Youtube and adapt to fit, he rejects needlessly complicated workouts (Zwift), provides ideas for varying durations of available trianing time (although he says if you’re training less than 6 hours a week you can pretty much ‘just ride’) and gave me some useful ideas for ‘specific’ training, e.g. my idea to work on longer and longer intervals as my goal event approaches, no point doing lots of short intervals if you’re not a sprinter or crit race etc.

I’m training for the riding I’m going to do in 2025 by riding in 2024.

1000km and 13850m climbing in 75 hours next July.

Well, I’ve done something stupid……….

For context I think my longest ride this year was 80miles, so I’m basically starting from nothing ?

So the stepping stones to get there are:

As many Saturday 200k Audaxes as I can enter.

The Rural South 300

Pauline Porter Popularie 3×200

Flatlands 600

A 400, but they all look equally horrible, too long to do quickly, not long enough to sleep. But I have to do one to get the 2500 Super Randonneur award, and it seems almost daft to not go for it if I’m aiming for a 1000 ?

And the training looks like:

Monday – 20 miles easy and 20 brisk

Tuesday 15 easy miles and maybe 40 at the velodrome

Wednesday – 20 miles easy and 20 brisk

Thursday – 10 miles easy and 40 brisk

Friday – 20 miles easy and 20 brisk

Saturday – Rest or Audax

Sunday – Clubrun 50-80miles

The ‘easy’ miles are mostly gained by just extending my commute. I’ve got options from 3-25miles that I can do without serious hills so they can be done at a nice consistent Z2 effort.  Lunch rides can be a bit more chaotic depending who turns up.

In an ideal world I want to lose about 3st6lb / 22kg and get my average speed >30km/h for a couple of hours riding.  If I can manage that then I figure that on the day I can jump into a fast group and that way at least the flat portions of the ride can be knocked out relatively comfortably and I’ll get a decent amount of sleep.   The problem if I don’t achieve that is although 200miles in a day is achievable through shear willpower and tangfastics, it doesn’t allow for any recovery, so there needs to be a big injection of speed as well.

I did start a training plan on MyWhoosh but rapidly ran out of time to fit it in so just focusing on ‘easy’ commuting days and ‘hard’ group ride days.

I’m training for the riding I’m going to do in 2025 by riding in 2024.

Sounds like the best plan, unfortunately I want to do rides in 2025 that I’m either not physically capable of now, or just wouldn’t enjoy! Best use of winter to get myself ready.

I’ll be on Trainerroad on the turbo all winter, currently at around 400tss/week, I’ll aim to do a few weeks up to 550.

I’ve entered the M312 and Dragon Devil for next year- training should have started a couple of weeks ago but I’ve managed to fracture my ankle in 3 places so it’s just hobbling around on crutches at the moment with some non load bearing leg and core exercises. Have follow up appointment at Southmead Hospital this afternoon so hopefully get an idea of how long I’m going to be in the cast or a boot…..

Watch some Dylan Johnson on Youtube and adapt to fit, he rejects needlessly complicated workouts (Zwift), provides ideas for varying durations of available trianing time (although he says if you’re training less than 6 hours a week you can pretty much ‘just ride’) and gave me some useful ideas for ‘specific’ training, e.g. my idea to work on longer and longer intervals as my goal event approaches, no point doing lots of short intervals if you’re not a sprinter or crit race etc.

Two things I’m focusing on are:

1) Polarization.  Regardless of how fit you are, you can only do so many hard sessions in a week, the harder they are the fewer you can do.  I did a lot of gym work a couple of years ago and it ruined my cycling fitness because doing big squats and deadlifts left my legs dead for cycling for 3 days, so twice a week meant there were no useful (from a fitness perspective) rides.  I think I’m now managing the ‘hard’ sessions better so they actually work towards a goal (which is that 6 hours of riding you mentioned that most people could do without needing any sort of plan) with making sure that anything above that is low enough intensity that it adds volume but not fatigue.

2) Periodization and tapering.  I’ve got 32 weeks now to train, so the key things for me are going to be 16 weeks of volume training over the winter to build up time, distance and aerobic base capacity.   Weeks 17-24 is going to a whole lot of sweetspot and interval training to build up the speed. 25-28 is hill reps, 29-32 should just be relaxing into a few long rides to tie it all together.

Having done Trans Madeira in September I’ve now signed up to do the next one in May 2025.

I’ve put the start date into my Garmin and let it work out some training for me (same as I did last time) I find it helps to have something planned out to keep too.  3 or 4 riding sessions (often on the turbo) and 2 or 3 resistance/flexibility sessions in a week.

I’m definitely going to be doing more stair climbing/box step ups with weights this time, some of those liaisons are tough!

I’d like to qualify for the world gravel champs narrowly missing the cut last year. Qualifiers are in May for me.

Right now I’m building back after surgery 5 weeks ago. Mostly low intensity volume (just riding) and that will continue well into the new year. Will be doing Zwift racing for a bit of variety. In Feb/March I’ll be a bit more focussed – more hard riding over the expected race time length.

Always struggled with structured training. Takes all the joy out of riding for me. I can normally work in the principles to my normal rides but I’m not doing 5x anything in zone whatever.

I did a lot of gym work a couple of years ago and it ruined my cycling fitness because doing big squats and deadlifts left my legs dead for cycling for 3 days

I now understand this much better, I didn’t even do any big weight on Monday, just really focused on form and time under tension when doing some hip thrusts. The subsequent DOMs really impacted my short/unplanned smashy ride on the CX bike on Tuesday!

Always struggled with structured training. Takes all the joy out of riding for me. I can normally work in the principles to my normal rides but I’m not doing 5x anything in zone whatever.

Absolutely know what you mean, I think it’s all about little compromises, like my Z2 easy road rides probably aren’t perfect Z2, but going easy enough for the whole ride would mean rubbish routes or just weirdly restrictive pacing, so they’re probably a smidge too hard which just means I’m not going to try anything significant the next day (which works out fine as I’m on family duties anyway).

Also when the weather allows I’ll take intervals outdoors and use them for segment chasing (sue me, I enjoy it 😎 ). Compromises the quality of the workout as I’m just doing segments of approximately the right distance at approximately the right HR, but it’s much more fun than turbo.

And I’ve given up on doing Z2 indoors, it’s just not worth it haha (maybe because I got fixated on doing 90 minutes minimum).

This is a brilliant thread and is perfectly timed.

I’m a fit and healthy 55 year old… but I also have stage 4 prostate cancer (sorry to mention it again but it’s been life-changing…lol). Treatment through 2022/2023 left me fairly close to death, and I have spent most of this year building myself back up and enjoying getting fit again. 2025 sees me get pretty close to my “prognosis expiry date” but I intend to be out there smashing the long rides 🙂

My three stage plan: 1) Identify what rides I want to target for next year; I’m thinking long and hilly mtb, road or gravel   2) Establish a training plan   3) Do the training and enjoy the riding.

I’m currently riding for up to about 8 or 9 hours over three sessions per week. I try and do a couple of strength/weights workouts and two yoga sessions. I do have an indoor set-up but much prefer to be outside. Additionally, I’ve booked in to the MIHP (Manchester) to get my VO2 max and lactate threshold tested (I understand that most of my riding should be below lactate threshold to avoid increasing blood acidity that will then feed the cancer).

Events? Not sure yet… Fred Whitton, C2C in a day, LEJOG, not sure really… Open to suggestions! Chris Hoy is planning a stage 4 cancer event. I definitely want to be involved in that and plan to make it a super-long-distance charity thing.

Really looking forward to seeing what other people are planning and what training they are doing. Good luck everyone 🙂

I now understand this much better, I didn’t even do any big weight on Monday, just really focused on form and time under tension when doing some hip thrusts. The subsequent DOMs really impacted my short/unplanned smashy ride on the CX bike on Tuesday!

My body seems to be the opposite, 5×5 never gave me more than a warm glow of DOMS. It’s cycling that gives actual pain.  The difference is that a hard day on the bike just blunts the next days cycling however painful it is.  5×5 left me unable to ride above what would normally have been Z2 pace.  No pain as such, its just as if my brain is telling my legs to push the pedals, and the signal gets lost.

I’m ‘lucky’ though, somewhere between endomorth and mesomorph. I put on both fat and muscle quickly so going to the gym isn’t required from a cross training perspective, it’s just for the fun of lifting really heavy shit.  My challenge is trying to not get fat.  So cycling suits me in terms of it offsetting my weaknesses.  Once this audax is out the way though I’m seriously tempted to give a proper strongman program a go and do a comp in 2026! The limiting factor is my lower back is made of glass.

Having ‘enjoyed’ etape du tour in 2024 have entered for 2025 with a goal of helping Mrs Llama get to the finish, and maybe improving my finishing position to be higher than the last 500.

Currently in phase of trying to get power up  until end of the year, maybe 8-9 hours per week. I have a coach. My training plan is do what they say. In terms of performance increase per £ spent it’s the best value bike upgrade I’ve ever made, cannot recommend enough for something like this.

@stevomcd have you done col du pre? Looks like the nasty one. Planning on a trip in June to do some sections of the route.

@tinas I cannot even fathom that audax, good luck!

2025 sees me get pretty close to my “prognosis expiry date” but I intend to be out there smashing the long rides

Brilliant stuff Stanley, can only wish you all the best and take your positivity as inspiration, you would probably be horrified at the petty little physical ailments that I sometimes let get in the way of my riding.

And yeah, if you can, I think smashing the long rides has to be the way, most of my training intent is because I keep planning incredible (to me) looking gravel rides, all of which look like ludicrous mileage that I couldn’t possibly do in a day, but I don’t want to bikepack. Solution: get fitter!

I cannot even fathom that audax, good luck!

@llama, mostly I’m just trying to ignore it and just try and enjoy “going for a ride” more often as training.  On the day then it’ll just be 200mile rides (which sounds bad but an achievable challenge) and repeating it on 3 days back to back.

Honestly, as a concept, the idea of a 400 scares me more!

No goals set, but vets road races will be kicking off again in March so hoping to keep/get into good shape for that…3 weeks into a 12 week base phase focusing on TTE

Starting in the ‘gym’ tonight after a long summer lay off and a delay getting going again due to some minor back ache.

New year will be the usual drying out period and trying to sort my diet out, with a return to intensity and pushing on a bit harder than last year when I think I was a bit conservative.

Goal is a BBAR* on fixed wheel and another BBAR on a tricycle, ideally with a 260 mile 12-hour TT on the ‘barrow.

Second Goal is to qualify for the UCI Gravel World Championship in France via the Grinduro. And ride the race too.

Plan, if I can hurry up and shake this current virus and stay remotely healthy (failed this year), is some periodisation of Zone 2 volume and high intensity racing Track League at Lee Valley. Oh, and ride some gravel at some point. Had to take two months off this summer, missing half the BBAR target (i.e., missed one 100 mi and two 12h), them came back for some circuit racing and a week in Mallorca. Then raced first Track League and have missed the next two with viral fatigue… Long Covid is the gift that keeps on taking 🙁

*Britain’s Best All Rounder is the weighted average speed for a 50 mile, 100 mile and 12 hour TT’s over a season. Previous best is 24.7 mph in 2018.

@llama

I haven’t actually ridden up the whole of the Col de Pré, although I’ve ridden some of it, ridden down it, driven up and down it many times and even ski-toured it in winter!

I went over there to ride it today, but ended up being short on time and had to go back the “quick” way to the Cormet. Late start due to a sleepless night with a cranky toddler! Going to ride the route from Albertville to Bourg in the next few days. After that, there’s snow forecast and the cormet will be impassable until May! It’s already officially closed, but still passable if you dodge the frosty bits and made for a nice, traffic-free ride. Cold though. The lady at the bakery in Beaufort gave me an extra cake for free when I told her I was going back over! ?

Col de Pré will be the toughest climb for sure. At least it’s relatively short and early-ish in the route! It’s not ridiculous though, much easier than Col de la Lauze (although that’s not saying much!).

Mine’s a running one – got the Transgrancanaria ultra late February which is about 80 miles/20,000 feet.

Running at least 3 times a week – tempo or hill sessions midweek and long and steady trail or fell sessions at the weekend, plus interval sessions on the turbo and walks.

possibly, toying with the idea of entering the Northcape 4000.   Italy to Nordkapp.

there is a extended time limit this time around. which means 26 x 150km days  which for me at my steady pace means 9 hours of riding per day.  dont seem much when you type it……lol

and the wife has given me the green light if i want to have a go….. and it is not like i have anything else to fill my time with.

Mine’s a running one – got the Transgrancanaria ultra late February which is about 80 miles/20,000 feet.

Was dot-watching a buddy doing the Ochils Ultra in September, made me really want to try one but it’s a bit of a jump from a 10k!

Another fasted 90 minute Z2 tomorrow AM, only fasted because it’s a Z2 ride so might as well, hopefully train a bit more fat adaptation for longer rides!

Oh, and given I’m now a ‘Vet’ rather than a ‘senior’, what sort of form is needed to qualify for gravel worlds? I saw some terrifying average speeds from last year’s Gralloch, faster than I could average on road!

possibly, toying with the idea of entering the Northcape 4000.   Italy to Nordkapp.

there is a extended time limit this time around. which means 26 x 150km days  which for me at my steady pace means 9 hours of riding per day.  dont seem much when you type it……lol

and the wife has given me the green light if i want to have a go….. and it is not like i have anything else to fill my time with.

That sounds amazing. What a challenge and adventure.  Hhmmmm.

The Badger Divide… 4th time… South to North.

No events planned yet, but may try the Grand Old Dukes. I’m mostly traning because I enjoy the process, and it is nice to be able to confidently pick up challenges as they come along. I guess it would be nice to hang a bit more consistently with the local chain gang when it starts back up in the spring too.

I’m using TrainerRoad for my plan and indoor workouts – they’ve recently upgraded the planning tools to make the whole thing really flexible and I find Adaptive Training generally serves up stuff that’s do-able and productive. I have it set as a “Masters” plan so I get 2 intense sessions a week and then I’ll freestyle the rest. The cargo-bike school run adds in a bit of volume as well.

Have a deferred entry to the Fred, but my lad starts his A levels the day after so will have to try and defer again.

My 60th next year so have an eye on Ventoux and Gorges du Nesque as a bucket list tick.

Also on TrainerRoad, 4 weeks in with an adaptive Masters program, currently on the base phase, then build and specialty in the new year. Really like the flexibility and simplicity of TR.  Just trying to dial in the intensity as feels a bit too easy at the moment. Tho not going to hit Finbar’s 400tss just yet…..

For those familiar w trainerroad, my fitness should be increasing during the base phase shouldn’t it. Mine seems to plateau even decline if I don’t have a long outdoor session at the weekend

Having never really regained  my activity to pre-Covid levels (for all sorts of pathetic half reasons, but ultimately linked to not having a defined target) I am going to try to do more riding through the winter so that I can ride the Dunwich Dynamo given I now live not many miles from the finish.  And from that I am going to use that as a base for something longer in 2026 – having done LEJOG a decade ago maybe a transverse of France or Italy

This winter I will mostly be trying to abuse my body by abusing the Tacx Premium subscription I got last month. Currently on the “Moderate”/30-40km tranche of rides with the streaming video and working my way around the world. Some of them are really nice with good views, a good chance to see the world from my spare room. I’m coming ing that with bodyweight work and some kettlebells throughout the day for upper body conditioning.

There is no real mål for the training, just so that I do not turn into a soffpotatis over the winter break and have a bit of cardio and strength at the start of the season. I’m also using it as a way of making sure I do not go mad over winter.

Honestly, I’m not sure how well the spare room will work in January when it is -20 outside and not much more in that room. I know I will soon warm up, but I don’t know how the tv and the laptop will cope with it.

I’ve got a mix of running and cycling things to work to..

Got teh big dragon ride in June – 300km of hilly goodness. I’ll just add in some longer rides adn longer zwift sessions.

The real challenge will be a few half marathons (which are straight forward enough if i’m not injured) in the early part of the year, then the Brighton Marathon in April.
Never done a marathon before – it’s the injury that’ll get me, so need to run far and slow.

How and when I’ll fit this in… who knows!

DrP