Why wont he debate the potential end of the Union?

It’s a mater for Scotland. It’s too easy for Salmond to portray a debate as Scotland v England so why would Cameron agree to be part of that

Cameron is the Prime Minister of the UK, not England. He has responsibilities for Scotland: in fact, those very same responsibilities that would be removed from his office if secession took place. This is a major issue taking place on his turf.

The idea that Cameron shouldn’t get involved because it’s none of his business or a “question for the Scots” is just utter gash.

CMD “keeping his nose out of it”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/camerons-plea-to-putin-help-me-stop-salmond.23138182

The Tass report, by one of the agency’s correspondents, hit the Russian language news wires on Hogmanay.

Its opening paragraph reads: “Great Britain is extremely interested in the support of Russia, as holder of the G8 presidency, in two vital areas in 2014: the Afghan pull-out and the Scottish independence referendum.”

In the traditional style of a Russian news wire report, this assertion was then attributed to a “representative” in the Prime Minister’s office who was speaking anonymously.

The journalist then added a direct quote from the unnamed source talking of “two main issues whose resolution requires international formats, albeit of different modalities”.

The Cameron Government insider then, according to the report, added: “Those are the withdrawal of combat units from Afghanistan by the end of the 2014 and September’s referendum on Scottish independence.

“We believe that the G8 could become one of the main political platforms where London will find backing.”

The journalist added that although the referendum might “look like a UK domestic matter”, it had, according to his UK Government source, the potential to “send shockwaves across the whole of Europe”.

The Herald story is rubbish – idk why they are so snotty about unidentified sources when the UK papers do it all the time.

The ITAR-Tass story – if it exists – is fabricated. 31 Dec is silly season in Russia – no-one in media, politics or business gets anything done between western and Orthodox Christmases.

Yep, Cameron is the Prime Minister of the UK. His mandate is to run the UK whatever form that may take. If one part of the UK wants to pull out then that’s their prerogative and Cameron is quite right in appointing a team to manage the debate. This is not a Salmond vs Cameron thing. Its far more important and shouldn’t be reduced to a battle of two personalities. The UK government is no different to any other company organisation. It works exactly the same. Its like the CEO of the company I work for getting involved in a local company sector meeting. He just wouldn’t do that – that’s why he employs other people and teams – to manage their own sector. All the CEO does is to set the objectives and the targets consistent with his or her overall strategic vision, and its upto the sector management teams to deliver. Cameron has set his stall out in letting the referendum go ahead due to normal democratic process and he’s appointed the best people to argue the pro-UK position (in his opinion at least) so he’s set his stall out. Its called delegation.

I’m sure Salmond could beat Cameron in a debate technically, but that doesn’t mean he’s right or representing the pro-independance point of view accurately. These dabates are over-rated in my view and often are reduced to a battle of statistics and that is when the vast majority of people switch off – because as we all know 99.99% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Actually Salmonds apparent desperation to engage directly with Cameron actually reflects badly on him in my view. He’s struggling to convince people on the actual facts and answer the hard ‘what if’ questions and just saying “We’ll sort all that out once we’ve got the vote, it’ll be OK, trust me” so now he just wants to resort to trying to humiliating the PM in a nonsense showcase of a debate that’ll add nothing to the debate. This is a taste of what independent Scottish politics has to look forward to – US style Showbiz politics. That’s not the sort of Politics I personally want to see in a UK that includes or excludes Scotland.

It may have escaped your notice but live TV debates between the party leaders are already a feature of UK politics, so this is nothing peculiar to Scottish politics.

already a feature of UK politics

Only in the last blink of an eye in relative terms. An unwelcome feature too.

Salmond would rip him a new arse and fine well he knows it. Ask binners, he loves Salmond. 😀

Yep – I reckon binners has a man-crush on Eck

In the last major TV debate between three party leaders, one Man stood out shining like a “bright yellow” beacon of hope…..then look what happened………

Salmond’s choice of words says it all….he’s starting to worry and get frustrated and sees Tory bashing as an escape card. There is no need for anyone to fall for his traps, least of all Cameron.

Are you suggesting that he wouldn’t be so keen to take on Miliband or Clegg – or are you lumping them in with “Tory”s?

FWIW, there has been a push for this debate for some time so it’s nothing to do with “starting to worry and get frustrated”

The only reason CMD is not agreeing to a TV debate is because he thinks it would go badly for him and for better together. Trying to claim that he is keeping out of it because it’s a matter for Scots to decide is condescending and untrue.
Mr Cameron said in The Independent “But this is not a debate between me and him. The debate should be between people in Scotland who want to stay and people in Scotland who want to go.”
Yet the stories continue to gush from Conservative central office/ Westminster.

No I am recalling how Clegg was seen as a new brilliant light and a refreshing choice based on the first TV debate. Sadly, that impression proved somewhat short-lived. (My first para)

I am aware that AS has been trying to trap CMD for ages. But the arrogance and fear jibes simply highlight how frustrated AS is getting with the lack of traction. CMD is wise to ignore it.

Cameron’s not stupid and so will avoid a debate. Salmond’s not stupid and would love to make it a nasty Tory vs. lovely Scots debate. The former is a better politician than many on here think, and has outmaneuvered the latter. Again.

Rather than ask why Cameron has declined: Ask yourself why Salmond has pushed the idea: That’s why Cameron has refused. Why do what your opponent wants you to do? I don’t hear many neutral voices crying out for CMD’s intervention up here in Scotland.

I’m sure Salmond could beat Cameron in a debate technically

Face it, Salmonds idea of a debate on the future of the union is more akin to this than any form of adult discussion

It was Better Together who claimed that Scotland would have no postal service after independence,that food would be more expensive,mobile phone roaming charges would be higher and that China would take the pandas back. Given that record they shouldnt get into debates with Rab either.

Don’t forget the “fact” that iScotland wouldn’t get the BBC

Cameron has set his stall out in letting the referendum go ahead due to normal democratic process

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This is the stuff that’s donkey toss – suggesting that Cameron’s disinterest in debating Salmond is due to some sort of democratic or constitutional principle. It’s not.

Better Together, an organisation whose main tactic in pursuing a no vote was nick-named Project Fear by it’s own members. Disinformation is their specialty. Sad that they have no positive contribution to make to the debate, always negative.

Cameron is a chick chick chick chick chicken! His refusal to go up against Salmond is nothing to do with him being democratic. A clear majority in a recent UK poll wants to see the debate. Maybe we will see Putin coming over as his proxy after Cameron’s SOS call to the G8 President.

If Cameron thought he would look good in a debate, he’d be there.

Given he knows he won’t, he’ll be nowhere close to Salmond, in fact he’s probably taking out an injunction against wee Alec coming within 200 yards of him.

Is Cameron a coward? Yes
Is he smart not to meet Alec? Yes
Will Alec try to find another way yo make capital out of it? Yes

Perhaps Cameron is keeping it all in perspective? It’s not like the lights go out the minute Scotland leaves. I would guess that it has a very small affect, if any, on England, Wales and NI. Businesses will continue to do business between the countries etc.

Nah. The lights only go out when wee Alec orders the cross border interconnectors to be opened.

Serious, well semi, question.

Celtic v Rangers, if you accept the republican/loyalist view of Northern Ireland, is there any sectarian bias in the Scottish independence campaign?

Three Welsh clubs in the English leagues, not two.

mogrim – Member

The former is a better politician than many on here think, and has outmaneuvered the latter. Again.

Eh. Salmond presented him with a challenge with 2 bad outcomes, Cameron succesfully chose the less bad choice but Salmond is still merrily making political capital from it. If this is what it looks like when Cameron outmaneovres Salmond, I’d love to see the alternative!

Cameron also realises that he might have to actually comment on some of the terms of any break up, you know instead of suggesting we will end up eating our young in Winter a la Better together.

Celtic v Rangers, if you accept the republican/loyalist view of Northern Ireland, is there any sectarian bias in the Scottish independence campaign?

I have no idea what your first two phrases mean.

Has there been any suggestion of religious affiliation being significant in the independence campaign? Scotland is about 17% Catholic, the UK is about 9% Catholic. Scotland would probably end up without an established church.

Has there been any suggestion of religious affiliation being significant in the independence campaign? Scotland is about 17% Catholic, the UK is about 9% Catholic. Scotland would probably end up without an established church.

I know there hasn’t which is why I am asking.

Celtic and Hib’s are traditionally Catholic teams, Rangers and Hearts Protestant.

I am aware that there has always been tension, but never more than kicking crap out of a few on a Saturday night after the footie.

Just curious if there is a loyalist/republican – protestant/catholic parallel to Ireland? Or is it Highlands v Central belt, or again indifferent? Or whether the devolution vote is separate from ideas of identity?

Eh. Salmond presented him with a challenge with 2 bad outcomes, Cameron succesfully chose the less bad choice but Salmond is still merrily making political capital from it. If this is what it looks like when Cameron outmaneovres Salmond, I’d love to see the alternative!

Cameron gave Salmond the referendum Alec didn’t want: no (unwinnable) devo-max option, just a simple (and potentially winnable) yes/no. He then set up a local group to run the campaign and give him a justifiable excuse to avoid having a direct debate. So yes, he outmaneuvered him, twice.

History has just been re-written 😆

I know there hasn’t which is why I am asking.

Celtic and Hib’s are traditionally Catholic teams, Rangers and Hearts Protestant.

I am aware that there has always been tension, but never more than kicking crap out of a few on a Saturday night after the footie.

Just curious if there is a loyalist/republican – protestant/catholic parallel to Ireland? Or is it Highlands v Central belt, or again indifferent? Or whether the devolution vote is separate from ideas of identity? Sectarian voting has not been a major force in Scotland for 60 years AFAIK. The conservative and unionist party used to harvest protestant votes in the West of Scotland, but you’re going back to the 1950s there.

Sectarian voting has not been a major force in Scotland for 60 years AFAIK. The conservative and unionist party used to harvest protestant votes in the West of Scotland, but you’re going back to the 1950s there.

Thanks,

I guess the last thing anyone needs is a group of whoever looses deciding the Irish approach is the way forward! It doesn’t take many!!!

meibion glyndwr anyone.

The vast majority of the Rangers support will vote no, As they love the tub thumping rule britannia stuff.

Celtic support, I’m not so sure there is a majority either way, they certainly wouldn’t want to be thought of as being pro union though, that’s for sure.

History has just been re-written

Really? How? Cameron didn’t have to allow a referendum, he could have ignored the SNP’s demands indefinitely. He’s taken a gamble – he thinks he can win a yes/no referendum, and by doing so seriously dent the SNP’s power.

Did Cameron give a referendum?

Did Cameron give a referendum?

Basically, yes. The UK government transferred the necessary authority to the Scottish parliament.

I am aware that there has always been tension, but never more than kicking crap out of a few on a Saturday night after the footie.

A little worse than that – there have been murders: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/may/15/gender.uk

A little worse than that – there have been murders: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/may/15/gender.uk

That was a long time ago now, it’s much better these days but I still wouldnt want to end up in the wrong colours in certain parts of Glasgow. Mostly these days it’s a few violent drunken fights in the streets and a rise in domestic abuse cases after old firms games, but we won’t be seeing many of those for a while.

@konabunny, I know the older history, but meant in last few years.