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Nuclear technology, even though it is legally entitled to do so?
Obviously Iran is not entitled to develop weapons technology! but power plants are allowed.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/30/264256/iceland-warns-israel-against-iran-attack/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu
Seems strange that a state such as Israel with it's record of human right abuses and other questionable behaviour is allowed to hold these weapons that it is not by international law entitled too and nothing happens.
But when Iran develops it's nuclear programme which it is legally entitled to do, so much is made of it in the media?
The sanctions that have been placed on the Iranian people are simply wrong, there is no justification for these moves and hopefully one day we will come to understand. The more we treat these peoples in foreign countries unfairly, the more the will hate us and look to avoid dealing with us.
The west cannot bomb it's way out of this recession and perhaps it is time that we held those that are responsible for causing the recession accountable, rather than demanding that other countries join us in our doomed way of life!
Israel refuses to confirm or deny it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, an official policy of nuclear ambiguity, also known as "nuclear opacity." This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to definitively describe its true nuclear policy, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[6]
In 2006, in his book The Culture of War, Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at Israel’s Hebrew University, wrote that since former United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons, any talk of Israel's nuclear weapons in Israel can lead to "arrest, trial, and imprisonment." Thus Israeli commentators talk about "doomsday weapons" and the "Samson Option."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[22]
Ron Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust" Israel's surviving Dolphin-class nuclear missile submarines would retaliate not only against Israel's attackers, but "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.[23]
Who says Isreal's holdings of nuclear arms is illegal ? There is no such thing as international law
Anyone else been watching doomsday preppers....
What has this got to do with cycling?
What has this got to do with cycling?
About as much as half of the sh173 that gets spouted on here.
cycling.....we're talking about the end of the world and you want to talk cycling I believe bikeradar does cycling.... 🙂
[quote=simondbarnes ]What has this got to do with cycling?
It's the Chat forum......
Some very scary stuff from Israel 😯
The sanctions that have been placed on the Iranian people are simply wrong, there is no justification for these moves and hopefully one day we will come to understand. The more we treat these peoples in foreign countries unfairly, the more the will hate us and look to avoid dealing with us.
Indeed.
Israel can do what it likes because if you say otherwise you are anti Semitic and we can't have that now can we.
The UN / International community needs to grow some balls and take Israel to task.
A lot of what they do to the Palestinians is no better than what the nazis did.
I have a lot of respect for this man. MP Gerald Kaufman
[img]Some very scary stuff from Israel
[/img]
In answer to the original question, it's because the US protects Israel and is opposed to Iran's government.
It's not illegal for Iran to develop these weapons, as it's not a signatory of the relevant treaties. However the US, the most powerful armed nation, does not want them to and thus imposes sanctions.
IMHO nukes just mean countries cannot attack you they are useless for attacking anyone as there is nothing left to conquer
Of course the state of Israel - who never signed the non proliferation treaty iirc and was helped by the US, France and the UK- all Security council permanent members and all in violation of the same treaty they are using to beat Iran. We now think we can dictate to Iran about whether they have nukes- in essence we cannot bully them if they have nukes
Such noble safe places as ****stan and North Korea have nukes - I see no reason to be scared Iran will nuke us if it has them it just means Israeli [ and western] "foreign policy " options have been limited.
IMHO we really should add some moral principle to our dealing with Israel. It has the right to exist but that does not mean it has the right to do as it pleases.
Why american backs everything it does is lost on me
Israel is supported politically and financially by the US, its a 'western' outpost in a hostile area-- a crude but effective analogy.
It is the big stick in the area, so while they may have reservations about certain things, in public they present a united front with the Israelis.
It is however a good questions junkyard, why does America continually back and fund Israel?
There is no logic to it and a lot of Americans are not happy about the fact. So why this closeness to Israel? especially when they cannot be counted on not to go ape shit?
I read about the American protester Rachel Corrie and her death the other day and I have to say it's quite a gruesome way to die. The Israeli government are saying that it was an accident, but how do you not see someone with a bright jacket who is shouting on a loud speaker?
Yeah, the Middle East would be a much safer place if that great enlightened democracy that is Iran had The Bomb and Isreal didn't! 🙄
The best way to buy membership to the axis of evil is to stop trading your oil in dollars.
It is however a good questions junkyard, why does America continually back and fund Israel?
Because quite a few Americans are Jewish, because all Israel's neighbours have tried to wipe them off the face of the earth in the past 50 years, and because no-one else will.
It is hypocritical that Israel has nukes, but they're in far safer hands than they would be in the hands of the mullahs - Israel is a democracy.
PPrreessss tthhheee bbbbuuuutttooonnnn ... 😈
The best way to get your country invaded and your people brutalized is to announce you will no longer trade your oil in dollars.
For example Saddam Hussein said he would only trade in Euros and Muammar Gaddafi had intentions of supporting an African Denar, not hard to understand why the western powers and their puppet governments got stuck into them!
Who has the largest holdings of US dollars? China. Who opposed both the invasion of Iraq and the intervention in Libya? China.
Sometimes it really isn't about the oil.
it was a bit more than a currency issue !!
The Middle East would be a much safer place if that great enlightened democracy that is Iran had The Bomb and Israel didn't!
Israel has illegally occupied how many of its neighbours now, is partioning its country and continuing illegal settlements in violation of peace lines and the 1967 pre emptive war,annex of jerousalem - lets be honest we would be hear all day writing its wrongs and breaches of international law - FWIW USA has done the most vetos of an UN security council member and iirc 90% were on Israel. What little has been passed ,largely, has been ignored by Israel
Iran on the other hand had a war with Iraq when it invaded them
Cannot fault your logic
I thought that it was Iraq supported by the west that invaded Iran?
Israel has illegally occupied how many of its neighbours now
Well, technically its neighbours invaded first, Israel fought back, and kept the bits it captured.
so it occupies them then like I said
Kasae that is what i said , punctuation may have helped though.
Yes, a bit like how we occupied Germany for decades after WWII. The idea is to prevent them trying to invade again.
Junkyard I was thinking that what you said could be taken a couple of ways, but too my knowledge Iran hasn't attacked any other countries for a long time.
Also their leader appears to be humble and a very devout individual.
bencooper, the Israeli people were the minority in that region, the Palestinians were the majority. The Palestinian peoples did not invest in weapons, they used their money to construct homes and schools and other social structures.
The Israelis on the other hand invested in weapons and a strong militia, the Israelis then removed the Palestinian peoples by force and kept all of their possession. The took their homes and personal belonging as well as everything else they owned, like common muggers would.
Basically they robbed them of everything they had and justified it by saying it was their land god had given it to them.
Also their leader appears to be humble and a very devout individual.
Oh, yes, he's a real cutie-pie.
No-one should have nukes. But at the top of the list of those who shouldn't have nukes are regimes which aren't democratic, who sponsor terrorists overseas, and who have stated numerous times that they'd like to wipe one of their neighbours off the map. Now who does that description best fit - Iran or Israel?
bencooper, the Israeli people were the minority in that region, the Palestinians were the majority. The Palestinian peoples did not invest in weapons, they used their money to construct homes and schools and other social structures.
Oh, good grief.
Are you talking about the democratically elected leader of Iran *cough* or the mad Mullahs who pull the strings behind him?
But at the top of the list of those who shouldn't have nukes are regimes which aren't democratic, who sponsor terrorists overseas
As opposed to democracies that sponsor terrorists overseas?
Iran [[b]subject[/b]] on the other hand had a war with Iraq[[b]object[/b]] when it invaded[[b]verb[/b]] them
Kaesae. I'm sure he actually meant Iran was forced into a war when it was invaded by Iraq.
It could have been written more clearly.
As opposed to democracies that sponsor terrorists overseas?
As I said, no-one should have 'em.
Loum me and junkyard have come to an understanding, I know what he's saying.
I'm no fan of Israel and the way it has treated non Jews in and around the country, but I think it's far too easy for us to imagine that we would do any better if were in their shoes; Bloody Sunday etc, remember that?
There is a certain "right thinking" attitude that I hear constantly (and the BBC does this with its biased reporting from Syria in the niave belief that any sort of stable goverment that was inclusive to all that country's vast array of different faiths and ethnic groups could possibly emerge out of the chaos if Assad was deposed) that really gets my goat.
Yup, it's one of those many situations that just won't end well however it happens.
it was their land god had given it to them
^^^^This and the holocuast are the reasons the can do anything thy want without reproach and total impunity. Anyone who berates them is aligned with the nazis or Muslim radicals.
For a people who've been so wronged over history, they certainly don't mind dishing it out without remorse.
What about all the Muslim Israelis, who are full citizens just like the Jewish Israelis?
What about the Muslim Britains? Doesn't seem to have much input on our foreign policy either.
I agree chickenman, I do not support Assad as I don't know enough about how he has governed to have an opinion. But it's easy to see that getting rid of Assad will lead to far more instability and suffering for the people of Syria!
As for justifying what the Zionists have done to the Palestinian people, how is their attitude and behaviour any different to the Nazi's? The Palestinian people lived along side the Jewish people peacefully and allowed them to live in their lands.
If the Jewish people are intolerant to others in this way, why should any peoples in the world be tolerant towards them?
You cannot use world war 2 as an excuse to act like this, how can the Jewish people point to the holocaust and expect sympathy, when they have caused an event similar to the holocaust to befall the Palestinian people?
What about all the Muslim Israelis, who are full citizens just like the Jewish Israelis?
Indeed. Likewise I have often wondered why black people in the US ever felt they needed a Civil Rights Movement, when it was very clear that all black people in the US were full citizens just like white Americans.
As for justifying what the Zionists have done to the Palestinian people, how is their attitude and behaviour any different to the Nazi's?
As I said before: oh, good grief.
A few thoughts on the peace loving and reasonable government of Iran:
They are Anti-Christian, Anti-Semitic and Anti Western, linked with rabid homophobia and the systematic oppression of women and any political opposition, show what a peaceful and peace loving state led by reasonable, humble, pious men Iran is.
Anyone can google Iran's own media outlets for examples of the vitriol they spout. I believe the humble and pious Ahmadinejad is tolerant that he described Christianity as a "reeking corpse" on Iranian state tv recently. Then last week at the U.N. he stated that Israel had "no roots in the middle east" and would be eliminated...
And we're expected to believe the nuclear ambition is peaceful..... Oooh look there's a Rhino nibbling the ceiling in my living room
No-one should have nukes. But at the top of the list of those who shouldn't have nukes are regimes which aren't democratic, who sponsor terrorists overseas, and who have stated numerous times that they'd like to wipe one of their neighbours off the map. Now who does that description best fit - Iran or Israel
Israel is a democrcay but that hardly legitimises its actions - Nazi germany was a democracy [ lets not go there but he won votes/elections]. Point being democracies can do bad things just like despots [ not saying iran is a despot either for clarity]
Thankfully Israel has no need to sponsor terrorism overseas[ I assume killing democratic leaders on foreign soil constitutes terrorism] as it does it itself - is this better?
Wipe it off the map is a miss translation and has been covered many tomes on here and the actual reality of what was said is available via Google.
I see no greater fear in Iran having them than anyone else tbh - north Korea must be higher up anyones nutty countries list surely. Not sure China or ****stan are countries i respect or condone and the former is no democracy,
The reason they must be stopped is how else can we bully them?
No we are meant to be shitting our pants or else we would not be able to justify invading or attacking another country we dont approve of. It seems to be working on someAnd we're expected to believe the nuclear ambition is peaceful...
bencooper thank you for clearing that up for us. How exactly is what the Israeli's are doing any different to the Nazi's.
They are held in check by international law and the fact that a lot of people oppose them in that area, in particular Syria! wonder why we want rid of that regime?
Can you imagine if the Israeli's had the advanced weapons relative to that era and man power that Germany had? what do you think based on their behaviour so far, they would do?
Gweilo - MemberA few thoughts on the peace loving and reasonable government of Iran:
They are Anti-Christian, Anti-Semitic and Anti Western, linked with rabid homophobia and the systematic oppression of women and any political opposition
And you think it was any better or freer when Iran was under the brutal and torturous dictatorship which was installed by the West ?
You need to read up on SAVAK mate, and how it tortured and murdered under instructions from the CIA.
And contrary to your claim not all opposition is suppressed in Iran, some is indeed tolerated - which is more than happened when Washington was calling all the shots.
The much misunderstood and mistranslated Mr A Dinner jacket!! 😥
kaesae - Member
bencooper thank you for clearing that up for us. How exactly is what the Israeli's are doing any different to the Nazi's.
They haven't built death camps and systematically gassed millions of people maybe..... I could be wrong of course
seems a bit silly using nazi imperialist ideology, an explicit plan to rule the world, as a metaphor for israeli policy. The situations are very different.
The simple truth for me is until all states are actually run by their people for the benefit of all, and by extension respecting all others self determination then conflict is inevitable.
I think Trotsky had some useful theories in this respect 😉
Can you imagine if the Israeli's had the advanced weapons of that era and man power that Germany had? what do you think based on their behaviour so far, they would do?
Yes if Israel had the advanced weapons of 1940's 😕
There fixed that for you junkyard, I was in the middle of doing something else, advanced weapons relative to that era. Does that make more sense?
They are held in check by international law.....
What are these "International Laws" you keep talking about ?
chickenman - MemberThe much misunderstood and mistranslated Mr A Dinner jacket!!
Yes of course, because Israel and America are only anti-President Ahmadinejad, not anti-Iranian, it's all about just him.
And if Iran is attacked the only target will be Ahmadinejad - no other Iranians will be harmed 🙄
ernie_lynch - MemberYou need to read up on SAVAK mate,
They sound like a perfectly lovely bunch.... not sure where it says the CIA ordered them to do it, but thanks for the pointer and I'll read some more.
That said the behavior of the previous regime does not in any way excuse the behavior of the current one.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, which I might be be, but Didn't Iran ban the last 2 official parties of opposition in 2010?
gweilo, you really need to look at the circumstances in relation to the Palestinian people, including their history and current situation.
If we look at the population of Palestine and the Palestinian people from say 1900 and then extrapolate their growth and development as a nation.
Including projected economic growth and population increases, show me then how there is any difference from the parasitical mentality shown by the Zionists that control Israel and the equally revolting and also parasitical attitude shown by the Nazi's in their persecution of those who follow Judaism?
It is not easy for me to say this about the Jewish people and it has not been easy for many of their own religion to say similar, but it must be said as fear has caused them to stray from the righteous path and they risk truly becoming the fallen!
Surely by any measure of war against a people or acts that are insane due to there brutality or scope, it is fair to say that just as much tragedy has befallen the men, women and children of Palestine as befell the Jewish people?
Whilst having every sympathy for the palestinian people in their struggle with the Israeli state, i fail to see the ideological comparision with the the stated aims of the third reich.
all you will end up with is godwins law !
There are an awful lot of Jews in the US who have money, power and influence so hence their support of Israel. But the States as with a few other countries will "support" any country who they would like to influence or want spend money on US arms and technology. Remember, Iran was the only country in the world to buy F-14 Tomcats, along with the Phoenix long range AAM in a huge multi million dollar deal. Luckily when Iran fell out with the US the planes were basically useless due to poor maintenance and they could only use them as long range radar systems instead.
I don't trust Israel and I don't trust the US either. They supported the IRA yet we are supposed to have "special relations" with them now! Sorry no.
I would like to see a world where evangilistic nutters can be viewed in a dedicated theme park, rather than having them having disproportional amounts of influence on world affairs (I include Bush and Blair btw). The Middle East is fares rather badly in this..
Kael, something we should all take to heart don't you think??
I thought this discussion was about Iranian nukes,or at least their attempts to get them, rather than Israel and the Palestinians. I have to say I find you views, extremely biased. The way you use the word Zionist in your posts comes across like a term of abuse. I'm not even going to get into your dubious extrapolations or the religious clap -trap.
IMHO I think it would be very bad news for the region if the fundamentalist state of Iran acquired nuclear weapons.
Are the Israelis like the NAZI's ..... no, not really, in fact the comparison is ridiculous.
Have they treated the Palestinians fairly or reasonably.... no, not at all.
Should the Palestinians receive a fair and equitable settlement ... yes
So what is your view on the state of Israel, should it be allowed to exist in peace?
So what is your view on the state of Israel, should it be allowed to exist in peace?
Do you think they will get peace whilst they treat the Palestinians like that - illegally settling in their country , economic sanctions etc. FFS we are talking about people who have no water and sanitation watching Israelis in their own land having a swim in their pool by armed guard. Is this likely to endear them to the Arabs within the region or likely to do anything other than make the Palestinians more extreme in their dislike - anyone in that situation would dislike the oppressor.
yes it should have peace i would question whether it really wants it tbh [ they wont stop building on occupied land despite even the US asking them to. This is no road map to peace- it also kills quite happily itself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations
Now agian why os this states record so superior tot Iran that we can trust it?
illegally occupying and settling land, state sponsored assassination [ we would call that terrorism if we disliked them] and illegally getting nukes.
I tried to talk about this to a couple of Israelis who are (bizarrely) on their way to Compostela. You could have cut the air with a knife. I finished by wishing them a happy life with children to love. One of them knew the Sting song which lightened the atmopher e a little.
Is the USA still the most powerful nation on the planet? China must be close, if not more powerful, by now.
well if all of China jump they can cause an earthquake - can the USA claim that ?
You know what Junkyard, I don't disagree with you. As I said above the Palenstinians deserve a fair and equitable settlement, and whilst the extremists in Israel continue building illegal settlements, and oppressing the Palestinians then peace remains a whole hell of a long way off.
I also agree with you, without a link to wikipedia, that Israel assassinate what they view as terrorists, they have followed a well defined policy of "terrorize the terrorist" since 1972. And I suspect will continue to do so.
My question was aimed at kaesae, having read his bizarre accusations of Nazism and generally offensive tone when referring to Israel and the Jewish people I was interested in his view.
You are new here aren't you - good luck with that mission.
For me the change must come in the mind set of the people doing the "war" or the "terrorism".
I see little impetus for a political solution [both sides tbh]and Israel method of making a settlement on the ground will probably lead to a Northern Ireland type solution for a number of generations.
Who knows what will be the "tipping point" for either nation
What are these "International Laws" you keep talking about ?
Might is right and if you don't agree I don't give a f88k cos there's f88k all you can do about it because I've got the biggest guns. More or less.
Junkyard - Member
You are new here aren't you
Was that question/statement to me? If so the answers no. I used to post on this site back when there were 2 forums, one on Coffee and the other for all hings bike related, off-topic or not 😕
What worries me that you as a self confessed raging leftie (previous posts on poll leads I thnk) talk an awful lot of sense, and I find myself agreeing with your last post as well. God forbid I'm a closet Grauniad reader 😉
kaesae - just a bit of polite feedback. Your writing style is awful. It's verbose, poorly structured and inarticulate. The smattering of hyperbole does nothing to enhance your argument(s). I do not care either way about the point you're making, I just wish to point out you're making it very badly. So badly in fact it's annoyed me.
rudebwoy - MemberWhilst having every sympathy for the palestinian people in their struggle with the Israeli state, i fail to see the ideological comparision with the the stated aims of the third reich.
all you will end up with is godwins law !
Rudebwoy what if we do not allow our minds to be clouded on this matter by theology, religion or any other distractions / justifications.
What if we simply look at the similarities instead, all too often these days we seize upon our differences then use them as an excuse to convince ourselves that others are not our equals.
What is we look at the similarities between the two situations in terms of Attitude, motivation and behaviour.
Let's look at the two peoples attitudes.
The Nazi's were only able to do what they did to the Jewish people because they saw them as unequal or without equal value. The Jewish people can only do what they are doing to the Palestinian people because they see them in the same way and use the same attitude towards them. There is a great deal of similarity in these two attitudes and I think the Jewish people need to be wary of what they are becoming. The Nazi's sent the Jews to death camps, can the camps of the Palestinian people not also be called death camps?
Now lets look at motivation.
What did the Nazi's want and what do the Jewish people want? well put simply they want to expand their territory via military means and are prepared to commit acts of terror, tyranny and oppression to do so.
In a real sense both parties with you enforce their will upon other via the use of state of the art weapons and war! there are a great many similarities in terms of motives.
Then we have behaviour.
The Nazi's were without limit to what they were willing to do to the Jewish victims that were unfortunate enough to fall into their hands, they were willing and able to justify anything and the people of that time agreed with their mentality and attitude, there are a great many similarities between these two separate and yet equally tragic events in the history of our race.
However the Nazi's did what they did a long time ago, their intolerance, savagery and utter contempt for human life is unacceptable and should serve as a reminder and lesson to all of us to this day, about the dangers of complacency in terms of our leaders accountability.
However to point to the holocaust that happened so long ago and use it as an excuse to justify the actions of the state of Israel here and now, to become the very thing that you fear the most and bring despair and suffering to a people who once befriended and welcomed you to their lands?
To me, when all the bullshit is removed, there is a great deal of similarities between these two situations in terms of attitude, motivation and behaviour!
tomd, I have a learning disability that stems from being an uneducated idiot, I am however working on sorting that out. I'm sure if you try very hard you will be able to understand me, you may not agree with me but some of what I am saying is surely comprehensible 😀
The Nazi's sent the Jews to death camps, can the camps of the Palestinian people not also be called death camps?
No about 6 million times NO- FFS they are treating them poorly, they are bastards to them but it is hardly a systematic attempt to wipe them off the planet and destroy them
well put simply they want to expand their territory via military means and are prepared to commit acts of terror, tyranny and oppression to do so.
Behave - whilst I criticise them for occupying land they could probably take over most of the middle east if they wished and could have done for the last 40 years
The Nazi's were without limit to what they were willing to do to the Jewish victims that were unfortunate enough to fall into their hands, they were willing and able to justify anything and the people of that time agreed with their mentality and attitude, there are a great many similarities between these two separate and yet equally tragic events in the history of our race.
Strange you never mention any of the similarities
However to point to the holocaust that happened so long ago and use it as an excuse to justify the actions of the state of Israel here and now,
Yes i agree
Yes the history of Israel is the history of them being warmly welcomed to the area 😕to become the very thing that you fear the most and bring despair and suffering to a people who once befriended and welcomed you to their lands?
To me, when all the bullshit is removed, there is a great deal of similarities between these two situations in terms of attitude, motivation and behaviour!
You have to be trolling now one can be this daft and have such an incoherent argument or make such a daft comparison so incomprehensibly explained.
chickenman - MemberI would like to see a world where evangilistic nutters can be viewed in a dedicated theme park, rather than having them having disproportional amounts of influence on world affairs (I include Bush and Blair btw). The Middle East is fares rather badly in this..
Kael, something we should all take to heart don't you think??
Yes the people of the middle east fair badly in this situation, the problem as I see it is we need to sit down and agree on what are the basic rights of each individual, like equality, right to practice their religion or faith and a way for everyone to be involved in the managing of their lives. We need to be more open and understanding and also to grasp that we do not have the right to force people to do anything, if we want to debate something with them, then the power and force of our arguments are all we can justify using, unless in defense of ourselves or those we love.
There are far too many people using all sorts of positions only to benefit themselves or their allies at the expense of others. Too many people who claim to be followers of the prophets or emissaries/messengers of god. Who do not understand why equality is important or essential.
Junkyard, you are not looking at the situation in relative terms. The Israeli's considering the circumstances they find themselves in and the restrictions placed upon them by the US and other powers, have acted in a way that as far as I am concerned, comparable to the Nazi's.
Not only because of the similarities of the two groups in terms of attitude and subsequent behaviour but also because we have to factor in the different era's.
As for Israel being able to destroy or take over most of the middle east, I think you will find that soviet surface to air missiles and other air defenses are one of the main reasons that Israel backed off a bit in it's aggression towards it's neighbours, it's one thing to attack technologically inferior forces or states, it's quite another when they can fight back.
Hadge - MemberThere are an awful lot of Jews in the US who have money, power and influence so hence their support of Israel. But the States as with a few other countries will "support" any country who they would like to influence or want spend money on US arms and technology. Remember, Iran was the only country in the world to buy F-14 Tomcats, along with the Phoenix long range AAM in a huge multi million dollar deal. Luckily when Iran fell out with the US the planes were basically useless due to poor maintenance and they could only use them as long range radar systems instead.
I don't trust Israel and I don't trust the US either. They supported the IRA yet we are supposed to have "special relations" with them now! Sorry no.
There are an awful lot of people in the world who have power, the real problem is that they all too often assume they know better than anyone else and abuse it.
I don't trust the US government or a lot of the people behind the scenes in the US, I also have to question the actions of Israel.
Too much money is being wasted on war and not much is being used for the development of evolution of our race.
the development of evolution of our race
What, like eugenics?
What are these "International Laws" you keep talking about ?
Might is right and if you don't agree I don't give a f88k cos there's f88k all you can do about it because I've got the biggest guns. More or less.
So you agree then.
There is no such thing as the "International Laws" that have been mentioned previously.
Do we have any estimates as too how many Palestinian civilians have died in relation to the population of Palestine?
Some estimates are as high as 1.5 million from the beggining of the conflict in 1948.
Are there any credible sources that can offer numbers on the realistic figures of the casualties?