Why have bonuses?

Right…..I can just FEEL the motivation oozing from the friendly staff at Haringey Council each and every time I deal with them.

Jeremy your world view appears to be

Public Sector = Good, verging on sainthood.
Private Sector = Downright evil/deluded Daily Mail reading fools.

Which is why you work in healthcare in never-reformed Scotland, and I left my homeland to seek my fortune.

does anyone actually have an answer to this?

I’m not talking about academies, I’m talking about private. You choose your price to the public, you choose your payscale you live and die by your abilities.

Jeremy your world view appears to be

Public Sector = Good, verging on sainthood.
Private Sector = Downright evil/deluded Daily Mail reading fools.(Except when I need them to manage my pension!!!)
😉

Just different ways of doing things isn’t it. Easier to give a bonus when you have a kpi to base it on (such as profit/money which is what most are based on). Harder in the public sector. Pay structure is different in the public sector. Motication comes from more job security, pensions pay increases based on time served (it would seem).

Different people are motivated by different things based on what they place value on. There are many ways to engage and motivate your employees. This is one tool in a large box.

As is always spouted in these threads, if you don’t like it move.

FWIW, I don’t get a bonus. Provided it was attainable and worthwhile it may motivate me more. Having said that, I currently don’t get a bonus, my motivation is based on potential payrises and promotions. I’m fairly mercanary in my attitude to work and my motivation is not at all altruistic, I will do a good job but I will not work for free.

Just different ways of doing things isn’t it.

Some people don’t have the ability to see it like that though. 😆

Different people are motivated by different things based on what they place value on. There are many ways to engage and motivate your employees. This is one tool in a large box.

And so say all of us

TJ, if you had a bonus maybe you would spend less time on here?

So why do the private sector need bonuses for motivation but the public sector do not?

does anyone actually have an answer to this?

They don’t. It is all on an individual basis. Some people work in the public sector because they are motivated to do that particular job/career/vocation regardless of the reward. Others will do is as it is a safe, lifelong job, with little danger of being sacked, hence you get poor performing staff that are very hard to get rid of.

In private sector, much the same. Plenty of bad staff there too, they are probably treated badly and get quite poor rewards. The there are some that are motivated by money in the same way that the public sector are motivated by doing a great job.

It takes all sorts and there is no “answer”

Personally I think the bonus culture in banking got well out of hand about 10 years ago. 25 years ago, a career in Banking was no more rewarding looking than any other job. Things have changed big time. The base pay is much better, but the Bonus culture is just so wrong now.

I am still awaiting some sort of rational explanation why some groups of employees have to have large sums of money dangled in front of them to be motivated to do their best and it is considered acceptable that they will not perform at their best unless this is done when other groups of employees will apparently perform of their best without any incentives but they are threatened with the sack if they do not perform of their best.

I agree – why should tube drivers get a bonus?

I agree that tube drivers are overpaid (OTOH, I wouldn’t’ want to do it!)

But all of this stuff about teachers and tube drivers is a diversion – both of those jobs are not out of the ordinary as they are broadly similar to average wages.

What is really corrosive in society are salaries/bonuses that are 100s of times what ordinary people make.

What is really corrosive in society are salaries/bonuses that are 100s of times what ordinary people make.

And this completes the circle in that these people are doing jobs that ordinary people can not do. I’ve had discussions with directors regarding mass redundancies, 50% of a sales force in one case- 120+ people. Could you do that?

I’ve had discussions with directors regarding mass redundancies, 50% of a sales force in one case- 120+ people. Could you do that?

No – but I’d argue that being able to do so isn’t necessarily a positive personality trait!

question of numbers innit

if someones hard work/exceptional effort brings in, say, 20% more business than you had budgeted for, then maybe giving him one percent of that extra back as a thankyou isn’t a bad deal at all for the company/shareholders/country.

There are some companies where that one percent bonus could be a few hundred quid

There are others where that one percent bonus could be millions.

1% would still be a fair deal to reward exceptional performance, just the size of that 1% changes with the size of the profits being brought in.

No – but I’d argue that being able to do so isn’t necessarily a positive personality trait!

Agreed, but life isn’t a bed of roses, but also indirectly we are all making these decisions on a day to day basis. By going to CRC we’re closing the LBSs, etc.

There are others where that one percent bonus could be millions.

Typically in industries where exceptional performance is more a matter of luck than judgement 👿

And this completes the circle in that these people are doing jobs that ordinary people can not do.

Rubbish.

1% would still be a fair deal to reward exceptional performance, just the size of that 1% changes with the size of the profits being brought in.

Also rubbish.

Rubbish.

That’s what I like, good constuctive discussion. 🙄
That’s for your contribution, it’s being repeated so it must be right.

So nurses are getting a 15% effective cut in wages ( pay freeze / inflation / increased pension contributions) over the next couple of years. Then also a cut in deferred benefits ( reduced pensions). do you expect this to improve the healthservice?

So nurses are getting a 15% effective cut in wages ( pay freeze / inflation / increased pension contributions) over the next couple of years. Then also a cut in deferred benefits ( reduced pensions). do you expect this to improve the healthservice?

I think that the current salary levels should be maintained, the only problem with this is that 15% of the workforce will have to be cut in order to pay for it.
Stop whinging and start providing real world solutions TJ.

In just about every large organisation I’ve ever dealt with there have been people in the management below board level who I’ve thought to be equally, or more competent than their bosses.

Think about it for one second and you must surely know in your guts that that is true.

The reason that most CEOs get to where they are is a combination of luck/who they know or just hanging around long enough.

I’m not saying that they’re not good at their jobs, but most of them are just people with the same mix of skills and talents as a whole raft of others who don’t quite make the top of the pile and they are eminently replaceable.

If ever there was a company that was made in the image of one brilliant man it is Apple, and what has happened to Apple now that the irreplaceable genius has gone?

No whinging Don simon – merely asking questions.

I’m sure TJ’s solution runs along the lines of tax the rich much more. Whilst I agree with this principle I’d be a little concerned about what would happen to the rich if we did that.

The reason that most CEOs get to where they are is a combination of luck/who they know or just hanging around long enough.

A little bit of an exaggeration, correct in essence but fails on the fact that these people do have something different that makes them stand out.
Most people can kick a ball, yet there are very few Beckhams.
There is something that sets them apart and it’s not always knowledge or skill related to their company.

and what has happened to Apple now that the irreplaceable genius has gone?

Too soon to tell 🙂

No whinging Don simon – merely asking questions.

You can start providing solutions instead of complaining then. 15% cut in workforce, just to balance out with the job cuts in the private sector??

Actually, I don’t mind how much we pay the top people, so long as we tax them at 100% above about £500,000

I’m sure that a distribution of take home pay that gives the top earners about 25 times more than the bottom earners is reasonably fair.

I’m sure TJ’s solution runs along the lines of tax the rich much more. Whilst I agree with this principle I’d be a little concerned about what would happen to the rich if we did that.

Me too. They might not be able to afford to eat caviar every night.

rightplacerighttime – Member
Actually, I don’t mind how much we pay the top people, so long as we tax them at 100% above about £500,000

I’m sure that a distribution of take home pay that gives the top earners about 25 times more than the bottom earners is reasonably fair.

Yuck. Socialism.

Just as bonus’s have led to failing banks they don’t work for teachers in New York either :-
“Weighing surveys, interviews and statistics, the study found that the bonus program had no effect on students’ test scores, on grades on the city’s controversial A to F school report cards, or on the way teachers did their jobs.

“We did not find improvements in student achievement at any of the grade levels,” said Julie A. Marsh, the report’s lead researcher and a visiting professor at the University of Southern California. “A lot of the principals and teachers saw the bonuses as a recognition and reward, as icing on the cake. But it’s not necessarily something that motivated them to change.”

or NASHVILLE — “Offering middle-school math teachers bonuses up to $15,000 did not produce gains in student test scores, Vanderbilt University researchers reported Tuesday in what they said was the first scientifically rigorous test of merit pay.”

Everyone knows bonuses are at best ineffective and at worst counter productive but given that those who chose to award bonuses get bonuses then the destructive cycle continues

Now that we are all in the mood for bonuses…

let’s go spend it…

I don’t need a bonus to motivate me nor was it any part of my reason to accept my current job, given I rarely get even a 4 figure bonus though it’s an order of magnitude different to banking bonuses.
I support private sector bonuses, they’re not really about motivating but rewarding the employees when a company does well. We only get a bonus if the company globally meets it’s target as well as we meet our regional targets, my part of the pot also depends on my performance review. I just view it as helping me get out of any Christmas spending hole I’ve dug myself into (15 years ago it was a 10% flat bonus, unfortunately that’s no longer the case so I don’t treat it as part of my salary).
Banking bonuses do need addressing though as they encourage risk taking beyond what you’d do if you didn’t have the potential reward and given the punishment for failure is small (at worst a P45 assuming you haven’t done a Nick Leeson) there’s basically no point playing it safe (with other people’s money). It’s like walking into a casino and being told the worst outcome you can have is to break-even, you may as well bet £100 a hand rather than the £1 a hand you would do otherwise.

but the public sector do not

Just so you know – the Civil Service have bonuses. I’d hate for you to bang on about something when you haven’t quite got all of the facts straight. 😐

Tootall at what grades?

Not Just the Civil Serpents

The NHS do bonuses too…

[Jim Bowen]Let’s look at what he could have done…[/Jim Bowen]

Lothian and Borders Police do bonuses. Any other police authorities do the same?

The Council-owned organisation “in charge” of the Edinburgh Tram network paid out bonuses too.

Just so you know – the Civil Service have bonuses.

What, £1million??

The NHS do bonuses too…

What, £1 MILLION??

Lothian and Borders Police do bonuses.

WHAT ****£1 MILLION?????******

Never have I seen such a concerted effort to willfully miss the point.

Comparing Public Sector pay conditions with private sector is by the very fact missing the point.

Public sector is about starting off with a pot of cash and hopefully not overspending by the end of the year. Whilst private sector you start off with nothing and generate as much as you can.

LHS – Member
Public sector is about starting off with a pot of cash and hopefully not overspending by the end of the year.

So – where does a bonus payment come from – someone else losing out?

RBS – 80 odd % owned by the state IIRC?

Just makes me laugh – teachers and nurses “think yourselves lucky you have a job” Never mind the cuts in take home and deferred benefits. Apparently thats all the motivation they need to give of their best

Banker – “here – have this large sack of cash to motivate you as you will not do your job properly without it”