A cyclist was blamed for their own death after a driver ran them over on a shaded road *BECAUSE* they were wearing high viz.

The defence barister will say anythiny to shift blame to the cyclist – so if they’d worn black that would have been the cause. That’s what they’re paid to do, challenge the prosecution and test the case in any way possible.

A cyclist was blamed for their own death after a driver ran them over on a shaded road *BECAUSE* they were wearing high viz.

And you haven’t worked out that is rubbish and classic victim blaming going on?

What makes you think that I subscribe to the victim blaming viewpoint?

rubbish and classic victim blaming

Sounds a bit like some of the sentiments on this thread 🙂

There seems to been a rather black and white mindset about this it seems (pun intended).

It’s as if you can’t even suggest the idea of all-black bike clothing is a poor choice, without being told you’re a victim blaming, bad driving apologist…
And I don’t think that’s actually what the majority are really doing, they’re simply recognising a minority of cyclists making a personal choice that cuts against what many simply see as “common sense” and questioning the logic…

Whether you believe it makes you more visible or not is almost irrelevant, a dash of colour simply heads off that “victim blame” that inevitably comes (from whatever group) with dressing in a completely black outfit, much less doing so in combination with no/minimal lighting.
And you’re at least hedging your bets by dressing a bit more “conspicuously”…

Seriously, without resorting to calling me a “victim blamer” yet again, explain why cycling in some contrasting colours is a worse choice for anyone…

Cookeaa, according to my wife we can’t co-ordinate our colours correctly and should stick to black. Gloves, glasses, shoes/overshoes need to match.
I had yellow jersey, green overshoes and pinky red gloves on. Wasn’t a good look according to the wife!
What amazes me is how much people gaf about what others wear or there reasons for wearing it. I’m sure most on here have been around long enough to know we can all find a report saying x colour is better, y colour is safer etc.
Interestingly, or maybe not, motorbike gear is predominantly black as well. Wonder if on motorbikingtrackworld there is a discussion about why they wear black and not brighter colours.

My, the troll has reached 6 pages.

I’ve been knocked off a motorbike before, it had an insanely bright headlight and a noisy exhaust. I had a day glow orange helmet and a high vis vest over my jacket. The driver didn’t see me apparently.

Based on this, you could wear every bright and contrasting colour under the sun and some car drivers still wont look out for you or see you.

It’s as if you can’t even suggest the idea of all-black bike clothing is a poor choice, without being told you’re a victim blaming, bad driving apologist…

A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this. What is being questioned is the religious fixation on hi vis as a cure for all ills.
Hi vis has an advantage in well lit conditions but loses ground as it gets duller. So the scenario of it being useful in rapidly changing between light and shade is dubious unless the sightlines are long.
Reflective has the advantage when someone is shining something bright at you. So mostly at night.

If you want to protect yourself decent lights should be the first and foremost option.

What is being questioned is the religious fixation on hi vis as a cure for all ills.

A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this.

A cursory look through the thread really doesnt support this.

Probably needs more than a cursory look then.

Not really. People are just suggesting brighter colours rather than black and not necessarily hi-viz, although again where I ride the cyclists that stand out by far the most (from a distance) are those in bright yellow or orange jackets and they can be seen more easily than a rear bike light (in daytime) due to the large surface area of a jersey compared to a tiny light.

Cookeaa, according to my wife we can’t co-ordinate our colours correctly and should stick to black. Gloves, glasses, shoes/overshoes need to match.

This might be a fair point, I went out yesterday with White overshoes and Arm warmers, Orange helmet and gloves, Blue Jersey/Gilet and black bibs, it was sort of coordinated, my missus did describe it as “a busy look”…

But I was certainly as noticeable as I really could be…

We’ve evolved sight to see a threat & to find food. To the average driver, unless you look like a McD or are a perceived threat they won’t see you. So dress as a Lion or a burger.

For those that are looking at relying on the 100% attention of the motorists, you’ll never get that. I work in safety critical engineering and human factors are massive source of failure, people are really good when they’re really good but all humans are liable to lapses. No matter what incentives or threats are provided you can’t make a 100% reliable human machine, therefore using lights, Viz, reflectives, colours WILL be effective for a proportion of the times that the motorists attention is suboptimal. Which combination of lights, Viz, reflectives, colours are more effective in different conditions is another argument and yes for a proportion of the times the motorists attention is suboptimal it won’t matter what you wear. But what is clear is that drivers WILL make mistakes and not improving your visibility WILL increase the proportion of those mistakes they can’t mitigate because they are less likely to see you.

I reckons anyways.

So dress as a Lion or a burger.

Carry a handgun? The imminent threat of death or serious injury whilst in your rot-box would sharpen the inattentive.

Writing words in capitals DOESNT MAKE THEM FACT just because you want them to be

but it makes them a #JAMBAFACT though

When you’re me IT DOES

explain why cycling in some contrasting colours is a worse choice for anyone

Why?

Do you need to explain why wearing bright colours when you walk isn’t a worse choice? Why buying a bright yellow car isn’t a worse choice? Why cycling with two rear lights instead of one isn’t a worse choice? Why three isn’t a worse choice than four?

Do you always wear bright clothes when you go to the pub? (Ah, back in the day, eh…) Do you always buy brightly-coloured cars? Do you always cycle with as many lights as you can possibly fit to a bicycle? If not, explain why those things would be worse choices.

Why is the onus on people to explain why they choose not to do that extra little bit when there’s always an extra little bit? It’s the same logic that gets us to the “if it saves one life…” argument, and it’s always pivoted firmly around the one-lifer’s personal choice.

Do you need to explain why wearing bright colours when you walk isn’t a worse choice?

All depends if I think I need to be seen and what the danger is if I am not seen.
I don’t need to be seen going to the pub or walking a long a pavement as there is very little risk of being hit by say a car that could cause a lot of damage to me.
Car colour has also been proven to increase or decrease likelihood of collision but again what is the danger if someone drives into my black car where they may have not driven into my yellow car, much lower than being driven into as a cyclist.

I don’t care what colour anybody wears and if you think car drivers can see you clearly when you are dressed in black then good for you.

Why is the onus on people to explain why they choose not to do that extra little bit…

Probably because the context is a thread entitled “ Why do so many cyclists on the road wear BLACK”. It’s is the very point of the thread!

.

Most of my kit is black for some reason, black is the new black! 😉

March last year I got T-boned on a small roundabout by a lady who did not see me??? I was wearing a bright coloured top, flashing lights etc…

She didn’t see me at all, so she didn’t slow down or give way, but she did see the judge and she was prosecuted, none of it matters if they don’t see you, they don’t see you…

Writing words in capitals DOESNT MAKE THEM FACT just because you want them to be

According to other social media it does. 🙂

Most of my kit is black for some reason, black is the new black! 😉

March last year I got T-boned on a small roundabout by a lady who did not see me??? I was wearing a bright coloured top, flashing lights etc…

She didn’t see me at all, so she didn’t slow down or give way, but she did see the judge and she was prosecuted, none of it matters if they don’t see you, they don’t see you…

I don’t think that makes any difference to why brighter colours are better. Let me replay the same logic with a slightly different topic.

“I don’t normally wear a helmet, but yesterday I did wear one. I fell off and broke my arm. I don’t think the helmet helped at all so I don’t see why I should wear one in the future.”

Ditto, in my case said driver was prosecuted for Driving without due care and attention. His defence was ‘I didn’t see him…’.
IMO wear what you like but they ain’t gonna see you.

I don’t need to be seen going to the pub or walking a long a pavement as there is very little risk of being hit by say a car that could cause a lot of damage to me.

Absolutely right: it’s about as likely as being hit by a car when cycling.

Why cycling with two rear lights instead of one isn’t a worse choice?

This is one thing I would argue for even if only one is being used in daylight. Having two lights with the batteries set up to be out of sync can save some really awkward moments when one goes flat/breaks.

Indeed, though dressing as a Lion may be slightly more legal. Unless the Fashion Police are about…..

To be noticed when on ‘blacktop’, you need to take some cues from the animal kingdom;

wear what you like but they ain’t gonna see you.

True for the drivers not looking, but a dangerous bit of logic if it’s guiding your choice in what to wear.

SOME drivers – those who don’t look at all won’t see you no matter what – Agreed.
MOST driver do look, some not as well as you’d like. THESE are the situations where being more visible helps.

See my logic above re helmets and broken arms – it’s the same logic as here. The lights / brighter colors are not protecting you against drivers who don’t look at all (or broken arms in my helmet example). They’re protecting you against those drivers who are looking but not as thoroughly as we would like (or head impacts in my example).

Absolutely right: it’s about as likely as being hit by a car when cycling.

You are seriously saying I am as likely to be hit by a car when walking along the pavement as I am when cycling on the road?

I have so far been hit by cars twice when cycling, with quite a few close calls as well
I have so far never been hit by a car when walking along the pavement and have never even got close to being hit.

That suggests, in my experience over 50 years, I am very more likely to be hit by a car when cycling and you must have had some very bad luck when walking along pavements.

I didn’t advocate a preference for one colour or another, merely saying always assume they haven’t seen you and ride accordingly.
Hi-viz or bright/colourful clothing is not an invincibility cloak.

I have so far been hit by cars twice when cycling, with quite a few close calls as well
I have so far never been hit by a car when walking along the pavement and have never even got close to being hit.

I think you do quite a few miles on the bike. And probably very little walking in a urban environment.

I have very few road miles on the bike these days (and those that are are carefully selected)
But having got back into running since March, as well as the occasional walk round the neighbourhood to escape the house when WFH, my experience is the opposite to yours.

dissonance

This is one thing I would argue for even if only one is being used in daylight. Having two lights with the batteries set up to be out of sync can save some really awkward moments when one goes flat/breaks.

This is why I run two rear lights – one brighter one with a built in battery that needs regular charging & one that takes 2xAAA which will go 60hrs between charges.
The chances of both of them failing or running out of juice are very remote.

I have so far been hit by cars twice when cycling, with quite a few close calls as well
I have so far never been hit by a car when walking along the pavement and have never even got close to being hit.

That suggests, in my experience over 50 years, I am very more likely to be hit by a car when cycling and you must have had some very bad luck when walking along pavements.

The issue here is you’re assuming your experience is representative of everyones. For example in London apparently (via here) 73 pedestrians and 6 cyclists were killed in 2019 which would assume you’re more likely to be involved in an accident as a pedestrian than cyclists.

I have lived in London the majority of my life been hit by a car 1s as a pedestrian and 3 times as a cyclists. But clearly. thats not a true representation of the real issue.

March last year I got T-boned on a small roundabout by a lady who did not see me??? I was wearing a bright coloured top, flashing lights etc…
She didn’t see me at all, so she didn’t slow down or give way, but she did see the judge and she was prosecuted, none of it matters if they don’t see you, they don’t see you…

Can I ask, assuming you were present or made aware after, was your attire and/or lighting mentioned by either the prosecution or defence?

You are seriously saying I am as likely to be hit by a car when walking along the pavement as I am when cycling on the road?

I have so far been hit by cars twice when cycling, with quite a few close calls as well
I have so far never been hit by a car when walking along the pavement and have never even got close to being hit.

That suggests, in my experience over 50 years, I am very more likely to be hit by a car when cycling and you must have had some very bad luck when walking along pavements.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I’m a roadie riding mountain biker, I have a variety of colours of clothes which I wear on the bike, but the long and the short of it is, that almost all of the good quality roadie clothing is only really available in black. Bib shorts, Tights, Shakedry jackets etc. I’ve got a selection of fluro yellow helmets, gloves, shoes, overshoes etc to mix it up.

I’ve been knocked off by 3 people who “didn’t see me” regardless of the time of day, clothing choices or number of lumens i’m packing and I’d say that i’m a very defensive cyclist and will always avoid any interaction with cars if at all possible.

Sadly, ‘I didn’t see you’ is apparently a valid and acceptable excuse for poor driving and until that changes then it will always be a high risk pursuit.