[Closed] Why do English people do that?

Born and bred Englishman. Living in England.

Well perhaps you can answer your own question then, which was : Why do English people do that?

Born and bred Englishman. Living in England.

So you've stolen our chip to put on your shoulder?

Typical bloody Englishman, stealing from subjugated races. You'll be after our macaroons next.

Just be glad you don't live in the Scilly isles or [b]Channel Islands[/b]. They get mentioned once a month at most.

To be fair, they are included in the shipping forecast - Portland and channel light vessel automatic in most of them, and Jersey in the midnight one - often very useful for the channel islands.

 

Folk from the North of Scotland complain that the Scottish News has a Central belt bias. People from Shetland get upset that the media are mainland-centric. It is just a small minded attitude IMHO

Yeah, but they're a tiny population way up north that no-one else is interested in. 😀

Calling them names makes you look like the small minded one tbh

My mind is so lofty I shall ignore your personal insult.

zokes - Member

Nope, that would be this place, which is quite far away from Ae

While you were wiki'ing, you should have also noticed that there's a number of ways to decide where the middle of the country is. But if you look at it on a map, you'll see there's no way it can be described as "in the north west". And also that Ae is far closer to Lanashire than it is to Ullapool.

teamhurtmore - Member

Just two of several articles from today's Herald including reference to "the border."

Can you think why the Glasgow Herald might phrase things differently than a national magazine?

Have I missed it, or do we not know the context of the quote in the OP?

Northwind - substitute The Economist, a publication with a global audience, and you see multiple references to the border, north of the border, sound of the border etc. And many more publications beside. English, Scottish, UK, global publications can use the term in a way that is completely inoffensive - as it should be. As has been noted several time, the context of the OPs quote is unclear (I think) but the sensitivity is (IMHO) verging on the absurd.

I don't know which is sadder, the 'faux outrage' or those who feel the need to take offence on the Scots' behalf. From my experience of living and being educated in your fine country, most Scots are perfectly able to live with the term and are wise enough not to be troubled by it.

you see multiple references to the border, north of the border, sound of the border etc

As someone living in Wales, this offends me*. There are two borders in mainland UK!

* not really, just making a point...

...at least they don't refer to dykes mol, that might get them in all sorts of trouble 😉

[i]do we not know the context of the quote in the OP? [/i]

It was in an article called'

"Visiting Scotland from England? Here some of the places to look out for!"

sensitivity is (IMHO) verging on the absurd.

I don't know which is sadder, the 'faux outrage' or those who feel the need to take offence on the Scots' behalf.

..at least they don't refer to dykes mol

I always thought [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=345522&y=755552&z=115&sv=345522,755552&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=582&ax=345522&ay=755552&lm=0 ]this sounded like an interesting place to visit[/url].

Also it would make an excellent name for a He-Man style cartoon series and range of posable action figures. 😆

teamhurtmore - Member

Northwind - substitute The Economist, a publication with a global audience, and you see multiple references to the border, north of the border, sound of the border etc.

North of the border, south of the border- you seem to be missing the point, nobody objects to that at all Our side, the other side, is what annoys people, because it is assuming that your readers are on your side. It's not specifically the choice of words, it's the us/them.

teamhurtmore - Member

English, Scottish, UK, global publications can use the term in a way that is completely inoffensive - as it should be. As has been noted several time, the context of the OPs quote is unclear (I think) but the sensitivity is (IMHO) verging on the absurd.

The exact context of the quote isn't important, because it's just one example of a common thing. The OP isn't raising it because one person did it. Quite a few people have pointed that out tbh, and expanded it to other fields where the exact same thing happens- "national" news spends extensive time on English issues, for example. MPs worry about the west lothian question because they just assume it's right for scottish matters to be discussed in scotland but english matters to be discussed in the UK parliament. And so on.

And fwiw, I don't see any outrage, just mild irritation.

Are there numerous Mexicans sat on the internet berating US journalists?

Hang on, so there is/may not be anything wrong with this specific case ("the exact context....isn't important") but we are going to get [s]outragted[/s] irritated because it reminds us of other things that upset us. That is some weird argument....C''mon NW you are a prouder nation that that!

Ah THM, I am disappoint. The [i]exact[/i] context is not important, but we know it's a national magazine written as if it's only going to be read by those south of the border.

wwaswas - Member

Are there numerous Mexicans sat on the internet berating US journalists?

Is Mexico part of the USA?

There are loads of Americans that complain about coverage bias in the media, incidentally. But mostly because of liberals/jews/communists/lizard people which is probably not the central issue here.

[i]Is Mexico part of the USA?[/i]

No, but you can buy US publications there.

Given we have no context for the article it's difficult but it could easily have been an English publication?

Graham S - that whole tile is full of quirky names TBH.

This is the daddy though - [url= http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=298500&y=858500&z=120&sv=Dyke&st=3&tl=Map+of+Dyke,+Moray+ [City/Town/Village]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf]Dyke[/url]

Next to Darklass.

.. On the A96 between (IIRC) Keith and Huntly, there's a road sign for "Windyraw and Boghead" which must win an award as least attractive sounding destination...

wwaswas - Member

Given we have no context for the article it's difficult but it could easily have been an English publication?

Apart from the bit where he said "in a UK magazine"?

Here's the context of the article which caused [i]"mild irritation"[/i] wwaswas

http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/throwback-thursday-four-wheels-better-than-none/

well it is just over the border if you're in Todmordenshore, isn't it?

Hang on, so there is/may not be anything wrong with this specific case ("the exact context....isn't important") but we are going to get outragted irritated because it reminds us of other things that upset us. That is some weird argument

he has said why something is wrong as well

Whats got over you today ?

I see a new cliche drinking game coming on - straw man, ad hom with a relief glass of water for every typo perhaps?

Whats the distortion? An OP seems upset by the use of the phrase "over the border,. Some people get upset/irritated by it without relating to the context. NW then claims that the context doesn't even matter because its symptomatic of other issues. I think that's overly sensitive bordering on absurd. E_L posts the context and yes, to take offence at that is clearly absurd IMO. Clear?

If the proud people of such a fine nation need protecting and our sympathies for such comments then so be it - but I somehow i doubt it. It's taking offence/being irritated for the sake of it. Blimey the English will be irritated that the BBC news is read by a Welshman next....

It's taking offence/being irritated for the sake of it.

Was there ever any doubt ?

And I've certainly tried my best to keep the irritation factor as high as possible. I can't think of anything sadder than a grumpy Scot not having anything to be irritated about.

[img] [/img]

Roll on independence from Scotland - might not have to waste 6 pages on finding something to be offended by!

😀 ^^

'Wailey wailey wailey wailey.........'
[img] [/img]

Ae Forest, just over the border in [s]Scotland.[/s] a better place

that should do the trick.

Not really, it wasn't in England.

teamhurtmore - Member

NW then claims that the context doesn't even matter because its symptomatic of other issues.

Well, no, I didn't, and I already corrected you on that. The [i]exact[/i] context doesn't matter, is what I said. The general context, we knew right from the first post. And it's also always been clear that this isn't the OP getting annoyed by a one-off but by the general malaise. But by all means ignore that, again.

Now I'm mildly irritated about being misquoted too! Though no doubt someone'll be along to tell me I'm not allowed to be 😉

teamhurtmore - Member

If the proud people of such a fine nation need protecting and our sympathies for such comments then so be it

We don't "need protecting" or want sympathies- we want a national press with a national perspective. Not so much to ask really.

Its not that we don't think you should be annoyed about it - its just that we really don't care 😛

Phew, I am glad that I waited for those edits to finish, NW, I agree with your wider point BTW (!!) but the link between that and this particularly example is still IMO verging on the absurd. Anyway, have a nice weekend riding. Don't get too irritated!

Don't click on the link. The second para on Herriot Watt starts with a shocker!!!

http://st.hitcreative.com/education/university_guide/active/UniversityGuide/university/year/2014/id/2893/heriot-watt-university

Ae Forest, just over the border in Scotland.

As far as I can see, there are two ways of reading this:

The author is writing from a personal perspective - for example, in my blog I'd write about how I'd gone Ooop North to North Yorkshire to visit Mr Toast's family.

The author is writing for a local publication, which would not unreasonably assume that the readership would be from the same area.

Not sure if either of those options are ideal in a national publication. If you're trying to market yourself to a wide audience, it's never ideal to alienate potential customers, even if it's completely unintentional.

It's a bit like how makeup companies and tight manufacturers will have colours called things like 'natural', 'naked' and 'nude', and they'll all be light beige tones - effectively saying that people with darker or olive skin tones are abnormal, because their 'nude' colour is completely different to what 'nude' is generally marketed as. (Interesting post about that [url= http://mitu.nu/2012/05/25/doves-moisturiser-normal-dark-skin-harmful-selfesteem/ ]here[/url]).

Generally there's nothing consciously malicious behind it, but I can see how it can be quite irritating.

we want a national press with a national perspective

But you've got a national press.

Don't papers like the Scotsman or Daily Record have a national perspective then ?

Perhaps nothing interesting and worth reporting occurs in Scotland ? 💡

ST is quite a 'local' bike magazine though isn't it. They make quite a thing of being based where they are and there's quite bit of local content, pictures etc. it's not quite the same as MBUK.

There is much to be irritated about being a non-English country in the UK, Wales have it even worse than Scotland, but the OP is not one of them imo.

Mrs Toast, an interesting article, but I think she's oversimplifying the concept of racism and difference.

teamhurtmore - Member

Don't click on the link. The second para on Herriot Watt starts with a shocker!!!

GAAAAAGRGHGHH! It bloomin well doesn't! We [i]are [/i]north of the border, that's just geography.

Ernie, I know you be trollin.

Even more annoying for us north of the M62 Border. At least the Scots and the Welsh have a voice! Stop moaning MTFU and get on with it. 😀

ST is quite a 'local' bike magazine though isn't it

THM - James Herriot was the vet, Heriot Watt is the university..

Good spot kcal! 😳

You're missing a hyphen there kcal 😉 Pedant fail!

Is Mexico part of the USA?

There are loads of Americans that complain about coverage bias in the media, incidentally. But mostly because of liberals/jews/communists/lizard people which is probably not the central issue here.

When you say "Americans" I presume you're including Mexicans, Canadians, Argentines and the rest, right?

And yes, the Mexicans I know get pissed off in a similar way to the Scottish when the Spanish refer to "norteamericanos" and are actually talking about the US...

Good point Northwind!
TBH I'd never realised it /had/ a hypen.

Sorry!

Its not that we don't think you should be annoyed about it -its just that we really don't care

Its the fear/fact that this attitude lies behind the journalism/comments that is the problem. If you'd felt mal treated as a nation (eg Poll Tax) you'd understand.

You saying it a bit Royston Vasey ?

Yes.

MPs worry about the west lothian question because they just assume it's right for scottish matters to be discussed in scotland but english matters to be discussed in the UK parliament. And so on.

Eh?

If you'd felt mal treated as a nation (eg Poll Tax) you'd understand.

So is Scotland a 'nation' or not? Surely if it's a nation it's fine to refer to it as being across the border from England, by a magazine based in England. It does seem some people want to have their cake and eat it.

Andy Murray is British when he loses but Scottish when he wins. 😉

grum - Member

Andy Murray is British when he loses but Scottish when he wins.

Funny, most people up here (lights blue touch paper, stands well back) seem to feel it's the other way round...

The Andy Murray thing was a bit of a joke/troll about how he might be portrayed in Scottish media but has elements of truth I suspect.