Which long travel hardtail frame?

Hi folks
I’m new to the forums and would appreciate some help/advice.

I currently ride a ‘downhill’ orientated bike which I built approx 2 years ago.
I have used the bike at various trail centers etc and last weekend completed the 44km W2 black run in South Wales which highlighted its short comings….up hills!.
Unfortunately I am doing more XC type riding nowadays and I’m finding I’m getting left behind when it comes to the up hills. All my mates ride full sus XC bikes or hardtails (100-120mm travel)
I have therefore decided to build a long travel hardtail using the components off my current bike to keep the build costs down.
I intend to use my single crown Marzzochi Bombers 55RV forks with 160mm travel which I love.
I am considering using one of the following frames which would also have to be a used item to keep build costs down;-

1. Ragley Blue Pig
2. On one summer 456
3. Cove Stiffee
4. Orange Crush

Does anyone have any advice/comments on the choice of frames or any other suggestions, and what size should I go for to suit my 5ft 10″ frame?

Cotic BFe

Why not sell the 55s and get a set of 100-120mm forks and build up a proper travel hardtail, you’ll have more fun and most likely be quicker.

I loved my 2010 crush & regret selling it. Having said that, 160mm forks would ruin it.

I’ve additionally had 2 Bfe’s, 2 Alpines, 2 souls & a Prince Albert, & think that 160mm forks would feel shite on each & every one of these for trail riding – I accept its horses for courses, but its my preference. I think 160mm would undermine the whole point of choosing a hardtail unless you’ve got some hardcore desire for mainly HT DH, which isn’t how your thread reads. 140mm is long enough for any hardtail in my opinion.

If you can lower the forks to 140 get a BFe they are brilliant. If you can’t then get an alpine. Not had an alpine but they seem more suited for longer travel.

What is your current bike?

As above, if you love the forks, see if you can spacer them down to 140 then biy whichever frame you like the look of.

I’ve owned all the on one steel incarnations and now ride a c456 with slackset. If your a tight arse you can’t beat em.

If you want something a whole lot classier then buy a Soul, if you break that then buy the Bfe. If that’s too popular then buy a Prince Albert.

mildred – Member
I loved my 2010 crush & regret selling it. Having said that, 160mm forks would ruin it.

I’ve additionally had 2 Bfe’s, 2 Alpines, 2 souls & a Prince Albert, & think that 160mm forks would feel shite on each & every one of these for trail riding – I accept its horses for courses, but its my preference. I think 160mm would undermine the whole point of choosing a hardtail unless you’ve got some hardcore desire for mainly HT DH, which isn’t how your thread reads. 140mm is long enough for any hardtail in my opinion.

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Would definitely agree with Mildred. You’re gunna have a blast on a 120-140mm bike

I’ve got a stiffee with 130mm forks and I totally love it.

If you really do want 160mm forks on your HT, then my Chromag Aperture rides really well, and unlike Cotic Souls, 456s and the like, is properly designed for that length of fork. The 456 should be called the 45 as no frame on this planet is going to feel good with either a 4″ fork or a 6″ one! As already mentioned, the frames you’ve asked about all work better with a shorter fork, with the possible exception of the CRC….I mean ‘Ragley’

Have you thought about an evil sovereign? Great frames that take upto 160mm forks but are best on my opinion with 140mm.

Here’s one for sale http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/evil-sovereign-frame-medium

Ok o probably avoid the 456 summer season as it’s slacker i believe. The standard 456 works OK with a 160 depending on the Axle to Crown. I dropped mine back to 150. 150/160mm can make for a fun HT me builds up fairly meaty but will take a beating. I love to ride it on the front o having a longer fork work. It also goes up reasonably well.

Stanton Slackline. They says its ok with 160mm forks.

456 summer season would be terrible uphill with 160 forks. Mine was terrible uphill with 140s. I rode it mostly wound down to 110 which suited it better.

456 in 160mm too

You should be able to swap spacers round in a 55R to get 140mm (not sure about the RV ) I hated my 456 above 140mm. My last steel HT was a Genesis Altitude with 130mm forks which felt ace

this is to go 140 to 160 I think but you get the idea

No Alpines in stock, but have Prince Alberts (Reynolds 725 version) and Prince Albert Classics (853 version). More suited to 120-140mm travel, but 160mm is probably overkill for a UK hardtail anyway (Alpine takes 160mm cos it was designed for the Alps – most UK riders use 130/140mm travel forks).

Agree with Mildred, our household has had lots of hardcore hardtails 140 is about right.
As above try
Prince Albert…..just a great bike
Cove stiffee
Santa crux chamelon
Orange p7 that was a great bike
Not one us got on with a on one 456…..always seemed odd

Like the soulbut never the price

Daughter has a whtye 19 at the moment tagging it in the peaks…..another good alternative. But not with 140forks

I got a commencal ramones frame for sale but like the crush its best with 140 forks

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/frames/alpitude

Had one and it was amazingly comfortable an fun to ride

If cost is a driver then the 456 will do the job on a sensible budget.

My own is a summer season with a 110mm fork so slackish but sensible travel and a moderately lower front end. 160mm on a regular 456 will probably be nice and slack for descending but still a battle on the climbs. a 140mm travel reduction would probably be a good compromise IMO.

If you decide you want less weight or something a touch more refined you could always change frames again down the line for one of the other pricier options already mentioned above.

Have a look at the NS Surge.

Sizing is small, you would want the large.

Surf Sales have a couple of new Transition Trans Am frames on ebay at the mo for £220ish. Fancied giving my Blood a rest for the winter and was after a frame swap so must admit I was tempted, but a 16.5″ seat tube and only a couple of inches of seatpost showing was just gonna look daft regardless of the fact that the rest of the geometry was promising.

I went for a 456 Evo[/url] in the end – first ride yesterday and it has a definite thumbs up from me (most of them end up on the ‘bay after a test ride and some don’t even get that far 😆 ). Feels barely any lighter than the Blood build and is only marginally more nippy on the climbs but has a very similar ‘low and planted’ feel in the twisty stuff – reckon I’ve found the perfect ‘swap back and forth pair of frames’ for the eternal fettler in me 😛 ! Wouldn’t want to climb on either with 160mm forks but u-turn is a godsend and my Lyriks sit at around 130 most of the time – spot on.

I’ve also owned a 456 summer season – another cracking little bike – the 456 Evo feels very similar. I was expecting it to feel a little steeper but I’m glad it doesn’t (I had a brief flirtation with a tiny BFe but even at 160mm I felt I was being thrown over the front on steep stuff – not so with the Evo which takes everything in its stride).

I’d definitely look at u-turn forks or reduce the 55s to 140mm (dead easy to do as per Dancake’s diagram above – I’ve owned a couple of pairs).

Ragley Bagger and Troof, Dialled Alpine, and Privee Shan are the only hardtails I can think of which cap properly take a 160mm fork without wrecking the geometry (raising bb and slackening the seat tube too much). But as others above have said; while a hardtail with a 160 fork can be made to work its a pretty specialist beast. I had a Troof with a 160 Float fork and it was a lot of fun until it broke, but the Mmmbop I have now with the same fork reduced by 30mm is also bloody good fun. Having said that I’m on the look out for another hardtail to take the 160 mm fork… But much as I loved the Troof’s geometry the Bagger is just too much weight for me to consider it (same geometry). Privee Shan also to heavy and Dialled Alpine no use as I run 1.5 forks and love Reverbs.

Dartmore Hornet is another one which might work… But not for me so I’ll keep looking.

I’ve recently built up a Blue Pig with Fox 36 TALAS.
I love it in 130mm for most riding and 160mm if I’m in the mood. Works brilliantly in either mode.

Oh and at 5’11” I bought the 18″ frame.

456 summer season is horrendous with 150s on ….. Great in france coming down.

Terrible going up anything.

Ask me how i know and why i now have 145mm forks with a wind down to 115 fitted 🙂

Nice bike bar that but + 1 for flog the 55 and pick up a reba or a rev .

I thought about this for ages, then just took the plunge and got a Blue Pig X for my new build. Ended up being a toss up between that and a 456 evo. Don’t think you could go particularly wrong with either.

I have a BFe with 150/120 switchable Sektors. Excellent bike up, down and along.

If you don’t want to change your forks to travel adjust set (which would clearly give the most flexibility) then I’d suggest spacing them down to around 140 as others have suggested. As above add BFe and Primce Albert to your list.

New Alpines will take a 1.5″ steerer, but are a while off, which I appreciate doesn’t help the OP.

Mike… will the seat tube be 31.6… please.

NS Surge is designed for upto 180mm forks. I’ve ridden one with a Lyrik on and it was really fun 🙂

FWIW I slacked off my Carbon 456 to be very similiar to a Summer Season, and it ended up climbing better.

Now personally, I wouldn’t buy a steel 456. Sure they’re cheap but there’s something dead about them IMO. The carbon one is a much better proposition. Though I’ve just replaced mine, because it was merely very good and I’m too much of a tart to settle for less than magic 😉

my 456 is a big dead feeling slow lump………just the way i like it.

walleater – Member
The 456 should be called the 45 as no frame on this planet is going to feel good with either a 4″ fork or a 6″ one!

What makes you think that though?

If the frame is built to be study enough to work with all the range, then it does the job. Yes the frame has a different performance at 4″ to 6″ as the angles change, but unlike frames that aren’t designed to be flexible, you can run at either without snapping the frame.

The point is it’s a configurable option you can make what you want of, and it’s great in my opinion that each build is not an identical clone of each other.

Anyway – as I’m biased having built one, my suggestion is of course a C456 😉 (130mm / 5″ in my case, so middle of the road). How it performs depends on the chainset also. Mine, 1×10 and climbs great, flows nicely and hits stuff surprisingly as well as my 6″+ big rig.

i have rode my 456 on 3 uplift days this year, using a 170mm bomber fork.
i has been great, and handles ace with a long fork.

456 is an amazing frame.

real shame i have to sell mine 🙁

Now personally, I wouldn’t buy a steel 456. Sure they’re cheap but there’s something dead about them IMO.

One man’s ‘dead’ is another (wo)man’s ‘resolute’ . . . I love my 456 . . . hey, it’s been 2 days 😆

New Alpine early next year… might be on my shopping list judging by the info below.

Dialled Alpine new version sneaky info release[/url]

Gives me a few months to break the Mmmbop 😈

i was just gonna start a thread to ask ‘what 140/150mm fork for a 456’
because my bombers keep hydrolocking.
so what 140/150mm fork for a 456?

If you must keep the forks you have then someone’s already mentioned Ragleys Bagger (steel) or Troof (alu). Both perfect for 160+ forks. Not ideal for xc but can be ridden all day if you so desire.

I’ve a 456 SS and ran it at 150mm when new. It was ok for xc rides once I had a trustworthy front tyre on it. Lifted it’s head on steep climbs but not a big deal really. I’ve now changed forks to 110-150 talas 36 (overkill) and much prefer it as now I have options (but it haven’t ventured above 130 yet). I love it, and don’t get the ‘dead’ comments you often hear about them. It’s a hardtail and behaves as I expect a steel frame to. Hard to beat for the money.

Here’s a video I made on my first outing on it – 150mm travel and an unsuitable* front tyre.

* secret code for crap

I have 140mm coil forks on my BFE. No travel adjust. It climbs well enough, and descents are fun.

Sizing is tricky though, i went for a medium frame. I think a large would have been more comfortable on extended technical rides. I’m 6’3” with a long torso which would better suit a frame with a longer top tube.