You mean going to a sensible position like Scotland? Jeepers warra bunch of clowns. Utterly useless

That FDA report is exactly what should happen, Tired. But there are reports (Reuters) that 5-12 year-old roll out is planned for the end of October in the US. Here someone from the governemnt said not before 2022.

As the age limit gets lower it seems the risk/reward for the vaccine user (as opposed to society in general) becomes less evident. We’re getting reports of myocarditis and vaccination side effects more severe than in adults.

I hope they take the time necessary to fully eveluate the side effects in the youngest cohort vaccinated up until now before going younger whatever the results of the clinical trials. We’ve learned from AZ that very large sample sizes are needed to reveal rare side effects.

Sounds like he’s actually laying the foundations for Lockdown 3

I think things will have to get pretty peak for another lockdown. Zahawi was on the new this morning semi ruling it out. (obvs cant say for sure) Personally another winter lockdown would be rough.

Scots over the age of 50, working in frontline health care or with specific health conditions will be offered a booster vaccination. https://t.co/D6e7vdN8uw pic.twitter.com/pHnn1NBok7

— STV News (@STVNews) September 14, 2021

Waining being taken seriously. Boosters for health care staff that received first two doses early on seems sensible.

Don’t believe everything you see, the above kind of sweeping generalisation is neither representative nor accurate and doesn’t help anybody.

I was in Booths, Alpkit, Cotswold and a couple of cafe’s in Keswick a couple of week ago, I was the odd person out wearing a mask in all of them bar the staff in each, and to be honest the services on the M6 was the exact same.

I’ve also had a couple of sales guys on site from darn sarf that didn’t even have masks with them, and seemed a bit surprised when I told them they couldn’t come on site without them.

Looks like they have changed the criteria for the booster from the interim guidance in July, once again omitting those with non severe asthma at last minute from the list which ain’t great and will again lead to massive inconsistency in who get one and who doesn’t.

What I can’t understand however is, if there is even some evidence of declining efficacy, they don’t commit to just giving everyone a booster now, even if roll out of that to under 50s starts next year. What else are they going to be doing with the 300 mil odd vaccines they will have going spare. It’s not as if there isn’t going enough to go round the uk population. I could understand it if they’d committed to giving the surplus to poorer nations, but think that’s going to be unlikely

If efficiency is going to be left to decline and boosters for healthy folks not offered, there is almost the temptation to get infected now whilst you have maximum protection, and get a natural ‘top up’

I cant see another lockdown happening at all. Business leaders and the frothing Tory masses will kick back hard if Boris goes against his word.
I work in a secondary school (boarding) and the messages from DfE have been very strong in that we’re back full time now and it wont be changing. If we have a positive case in a boarding house its just that dorm that is a close contact, nothing like the issues we faced before the summer where we were locking down 30+ kids every 10 days.
The difference in the kids from Easter to now is like night and day, the biggest issue now is how we’re going to get them all vaccinated.

the biggest issue now is how we’re going to get them all vaccinated

Follow the plans worked out months ago ready for when this inevitable stage of the vaccine rollout was reached. What plans you say? Crazy, isn’t it.

I hope they take the time necessary to fully evaluate the side effects in the youngest cohort vaccinated up until now before going younger whatever the results of the clinical trials.

Mini 10 has been part of the vaccine trials here in the US. It’s not a decision we made lightly, but we decided that without involvement from parents like us there wouldn’t be vaccines for other children in a timely manner. We had a long conversation with the trial’s lead doctor regarding the possible issues including the myocarditis. We came away feeling like the smaller doses used for the younger children, combined with the benefits of being part of the study regarding medical care, were worth the risk. Obviously we discussed it with mini 10. The trial doctor said that there was a case to suggest that if a child was susceptible to myocarditis then they would probably get it with either a CV infection or a vaccine. Although there wasn’t enough information at the time to say whether this was for certain. Mini 10 has been fine and it’s been around 3 months since he was jabbed. However, he may be in the placebo group. We’ll find out this month.

he trial doctor said that there was a case to suggest that if a child was susceptible to myocarditis then they would probably get it with either a CV infection or a vaccine.

I think this is key.

The JCVI findings didn’t allow for (from what I’ve read) the fact that we’re manufacturing a situation where all kids WILL be exposed to, and most likely catch, Coronavirus in this academic year in the UK. In that situation, the balance of risk compared to vaccination is quite different to the scenario where we are actively trying to minimise the spread of the virus in schools and in the community, and even closing them for most kids when absolutely necessary. No masks, no distancing, no ventilation, no bubbles, no closures… doesn’t work well with no vaccine.

So is the stated aim to minimise harms of covid infection in the individual child, or prevent transmission to protect others and try to interrupt spread? Even two jabs offers only a small amount of protection against onward transmission, and this cohort is only to be offered a single dose, apparently.

I remain to be convinced about the benefits of the vaccine to this age group. It seems odd not to go the extra mile with non-invasive stuff – masks, ventilation, testing, etc before opting for a half dose of a vaccine whose risk/benefit profile has been rejected by JCVI.

Another lockdown will be resisted at all costs if one becomes necessary. It’ll be the same as the first one: the govt will only call it once everyone has started doing it on their own volition anyway. Can you imagine the chaos in back benches if Boris had to announce the return of Furlough and all the rest of it? It has the potential to rip what’s left of the governing system to shreds.

And I go down south and folk ain’t even wearing masks, **** mental.

I’ve been working from Bristol the last few weeks and covering a large area between Weston Supermare and Swindon, it’s been an eye-opener how few people are wearing masks voluntarily compared to Wales. I’d say Cardiff is around 60-70% wearing masks but England seems to be 30% at most, especially in busy areas like fuel stations and fast food places. It’s got to the point where I am starting to feel a bit self-conscious about wearing mine when away from home.

Can you imagine the chaos in back benches if Boris had to announce the return of Furlough and all the rest of it? It has the potential to rip what’s left of the governing system to shreds.

That would be the only silver lining. But, let’s face it, we won’t be locking down again unless we are already experiencing something far worse.

It’s got to the point where I am starting to feel a bit self-conscious about wearing mine when away from home.

And this is the central problem with removing mask mandates, even though you encourage people to wear them indoors/on public transport. If people are frequently in situations where the mask-avoiders are in a majority, it starts to feel socially awkward to wear one, so more people will not bother, until you end up with 1 in 20 people on a train wearing one.

We are social animals, we largely follow herd behaviour, and don’t like to feel ‘othered’ in public.

Spot on Martin.

whose risk/benefit profile has been rejected by JCVI.

That’s not my understanding of what they said – they said the benefits were marginally in favour vaccination but as it was marginal they suggested the educational and social aspects needed to be factored in by by the CMOs, as they weren’t within JCVIs remit.

We are social animals, we largely follow herd behaviour, and don’t like to feel ‘othered’ in public.

I’m sorely tempted to have a “AND I voted Remain” mask made.

If the crowd is stupid there is no glory in being part of it.

Sage are warning that 7000 daily hospitalisations is the probable outcome of our wankerishness.

Why the **** we can’t just keep a few effective, non-onerous measures in place is beyond me. But then, ‘we’ as a country are so much better than everyone else, so we don’t need to bother…

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🍆💦🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Tossers dragging their feet because it doesn’t match their ‘Big Man’ bullshit

That’s not my understanding of what they said – they said the benefits were marginally in favour vaccination

It was more that their conclusion on a narrow risk/benefit remit was overall not in favour, even though there were other societal/educational considerations they didn’t examine. I think that ethically, in situations where the person receiving the vaccine may not be able to give fully informed consent, evidence of direct benefit over risk has to be clear.

I’m not convinced that the societal/educational benefits are sufficiently large, especially with one dose. It’s not a hill I’m prepared to die on, obviously, I can see there are other perfectly rational interpretations of the evidence, this is a pretty unusual situation.

There’s a limit, in my view at least, to how far you should try to vaccinate yourself out of a mess using children while simultaneously rejecting simple measures to reduce the burden of disease on the population just because some adults find them mildly inconvenient.

Today’s hinting that they reserve the right to bring in mask mandates once it’s far too late for that to be of much use must have successfully pissed off everyone on all sides, no? The anti-mask back benchers and noise bots in social media and in the papers won’t be happy. The unsure will be wondering why mask wearing might be necessary later but not now (and look at the maskless Tory benches with some confusion). Those that think we should obviously already be using such measures right now will just be in the corner rocking.

I am noticing a drop in Scotland’s figures at the end of last week – this is cases and serious cases – after a month of sharply rising figures.

I’d really like some sort of explantion for this. It’s not that we’ve introduced other safeguards. Its not that we’ve suddenly increased the number vaccinated by a huge amount. It’s not that we’re simply testing a lot fewer people. It’s not like schools, pubs, cafes, offices etc have closed as a result of the rise. Is there some sort of “natural” check happening?

I’m sorely tempted to have a “AND I voted Remain” mask made.

I like the sound of that

Whisper it, h…. No, I’m not gonna say it. 😉

There’s a limit, in my view at least, to how far you should try to vaccinate yourself out of a mess using children while simultaneously rejecting simple measures to reduce the burden of disease on the population just because some adults find them mildly inconvenient.

I don’t think I can remember a better (part) post in a long time. 100% on the button IMO.

Those that think we should obviously already be using such measures right now will just be in the corner rocking.

‘Those of us’ in this case overlaps strongly with a similar ‘those of us’ who think other wantonly stupid decisions are just that – stupid.

This is the problem when people who should know better create the notion that being a nobhead is something that should be aspired to. It legitimises all the nutjobs who pipe up without even the self-realisation to know that it is their narcissistic need to be noticed that is really behind their ‘outspokenness’.

A society where sensible people can be ‘othered’ so easily as ‘metropolitan elites’ is in deep shit. There is a special place in hell for politicians who tacitly encourage pigheadedness for their own gain.

I’d really like some sort of explantion for this.

I saw an article somewhere that tried to link this to a wave of returnees from overseas hols, it might not be correct.

So to not jump on the emotional bandwagon and I agree that preventative measures should come now if we have so much expectation of case increase, but focusing less on Johnson, Whitty and Valence wheren’t exactly banging on the table also Whitty did use the phrase “thats a ministerial decision” several times.

I wasn’t sure, but have the scientists been overruled again? Seems an obvious repetitive political faux pas if so, I’m struggling to see where Boris’ win is?

Anti-vaxxers will also not be wearing masks and we have an insanely contagious variant everywhere in the country.

We’re basically eliminating the stupider subset of society and if I’m honest this doesn’t bother me that much.

I wear a mask everywhere partly because I frequently travel to and from red list countries and feel a bit of social responsibility, and (selfishly) because even if vaccinated it still looks like a pretty unpleasant thing to catch.

I’m struggling to see where Boris’ win is?

Kicks the can for a week or two whilst he can dream up some utter bollocks to gaslight the population with.

🤷‍♂️

even if vaccinated it still looks like a pretty unpleasant thing to catch.

It was sobering to hear Chris Whitty describe Delta as a “particularly dangerous variant” aside the complacency.

I saw an article somewhere that tried to link this to a wave of returnees from overseas hols, it might not be correct.

It could be that caused a sharp increase (though I don’t think the dates tie up) but that surely doesn’t provide a reason for the decrease. Surely once it is rampant in the resident population it’ll carry on increasing – given the lack of other preventative measures?

Scotland went back to school and college(and subsequently parents back to full time work) as infection was on the rise, bit of unfortunate timing I’d say, I’d guess England(couple of weeks behind Scotland) will see a similar rise for the same reasons soon, I work in education and glad of masks in classrooms, we have had 3 positive cases in two weeks going into three and no transmission, the same situation in an unmasked classroom might be different, any transmission multiplies very rapidly and doesn’t stop unless isolated before transmission, dropping mask wearing after it was so broadly accepted seems to me a very dangerous thing to do and something I’d not be comfortable working with.

So we arrive here at the following, 99.9% observe every precaution but…

At work I share a room with someone who is not vaccinated and refuses to be, is mask exempt and refuses to wear one, has underlying health problems and shared a room with someone who has now tested positive, and is telling all and sundry that it’s all exaggerated.

What would you do there?

What would you do there?

Ask to be moved to a different room.

What would you do there?

Dog shite in their kettle.

What would you do there?

Is the room up any stairs?

A society where sensible people can be ‘othered’ so easily as ‘metropolitan elites’ is in deep shit. There is a special place in hell for politicians who tacitly encourage pigheadedness for their own gain.

Very well said.

We’re basically eliminating the stupider subset of society and if I’m honest this doesn’t bother me that much.

If it was only the stupider subset being affected that would be fine. But they are affecting the sensible but vulnerable, and tying up the NHS for everyone else

Sage are warning that 7000 daily hospitalisations is the probable outcome of our wankerishness.

Not what they said.
That’s a highly unlikely outcome with waning immunity/new variant in a low intervention environment.

No. The outcomes based on greater waning in immunity and a new 2x more transmissible variant were much much higher. 2000 – 7000 a day was based on current variant and slower waning.

[ see page 5 … https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1017129/S1376_SPI-M-O_Consensus_Statement.pdf ]

What would you do there?

Have a “condolence” card for his family on standby ?

I’d really like some sort of explantion for this

My guess is that they virus is running out of hosts to infect. People either have immunity or are being careful still – all the non imumne and stupid folk have caught it so no pool of potential hosts for the virus left

could be nonsense

There’s a limit, in my view at least, to how far you should try to vaccinate yourself out of a mess using children while simultaneously rejecting simple measures to reduce the burden of disease on the population just because some adults find them mildly inconvenient.

Yep it’s odd, if vaccination stopped transmission dead then it would be different but the risk/reward position does make me wonder if it’s more of a PR exercise or a vast oversimplication due to not being able to make vaccination,mask,ventilation into a catchy sound bite.

I’ve also had a couple of sales guys on site from darn sarf that didn’t even have masks with them, and seemed a bit surprised when I told them they couldn’t come on site without them.

Northern wimps…..

I suppose the other side of the coin would that if it was still so bad then the government would still be mandating masks, whereas they are advocating carrying on as normal in pubs,clubs, schools and sports etc.

Normal Behaviour =covid over = why are you wearing masks.

if vaccination stopped transmission dead then it would be different but the risk/reward position does make me wonder if it’s more of a PR exercise

It’s not a PR exercise (vaccinating teens that is). It is precisely because vaccination only reduces rather than stops people catching and transmitting the virus that we need such a high proportion of the population to be vaccinated. We need a drive to vaccinate young adult hold outs, and school age volunteers. We really needed to be doing it in July and August, but, hey, holidays abroad for ministers and a misstep in vaccine procurement/delivery meant that we’ve now got to scrabble around getting it done while cases are high this autumn instead. But we need to get very high vaccine coverage as soon as possible, before new variants emerge. And, yes, we absolutely should be using the basic measures to keep cases low in the meantime… masks, ventilation etc in schools and on public transport and in shops. Green card type proof of vaccine and/or test for mass entertainment should be part of mix. And will be (just don’t look to the government, venues and events will just be insisting on them anyway).