My suspicion with the drop in numbers over the last week was people not testing so as to not ruin their holiday plans. I know alot of people took their kids out of school for the last week of term for exactly that reason, but this wouldn’t account for the drop in infection numbers in that period.

I am proof that double jabbed still get it and still transmit. (I had symptoms first and now whole family have it, including my double jabbed wife, bar my 5 year old…..)

I have had a properly rough 8 days, today I slept most of the day, just couldnt stay awake and i am knackered walking quickly up the stairs.

The view seems to be that double jabbed is bulletproof and its not, so will this lead to more people being more lax about preventative measures and more getting it?

You’re not proof though, you don’t know that your 5yr wasn’t asymptomatic and passed it to you and your wife, you have no idea how it was spread in your household.

Secondly it was always known the vaccine is not bullet proof, it dramatically reduces the chances of getting ill from it and then seriously ill and so on but there’s always a risk a fully vaccinated individual of any age can still get ill and die. It’s a risky world we live in folk, let’s keep calm and carry on eh. We didn’t batter an eyelid going into work with the sniffles yet could have ended up killing a vulnerable elderly person with influenza and pneumonia as a result of it.

Not quite yet but soon (more double jabbed) we’ll have to accept this and live in a risk accepted way of life mitigating where we can but with very little impact to life. Testing can’t continue forever, think of the environmental impact of all of these bits of plastic from lateral flow tests or masks in the landfill for example.

We didn’t batter an eyelid going into work with the sniffles yet could have ended up killing a vulnerable elderly person with influenza and pneumonia as a result of it

Hopefully more people have gained an appreciation of that fact and flu will also be taken more seriously than it has been in this country. I got my first flu jab last year and will continue to now. I’m unlikely to directly infect a vulnerable person but one less carrier is good.

I believe the UKs stats for deaths and hospitalisation from flu suggest that we were well behind the curve as far as European countries are concerned, another one hoping we learn from the pandemic

Hopefully the UK’s approach to flu vaccines (and taking “sniffles” into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.

At the very least, I’d expect the flu vaccine to be available to the slightly younger cohort it did last year.

However, I reckon it’s still the case that too many employers aren’t willing to support/allow staff to be absent for “sniffles” and, frankly, too many employees can’t afford to take time off.

Hopefully the UK’s approach to flu vaccines (and taking “sniffles” into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.

is not a rolling reinfection of flu/cold etc the only thing that keeps us partly immune from it?

Flu vaccine is far from perfect due to quick mutations, especially so this upcoming year as we aren’t quite sure whats going to appear.

Hopefully the UK’s approach to flu vaccines (and taking “sniffles” into the workplace) will change this winter, with a lasting legacy.

is not a rolling reinfection of flu/cold etc the only thing that keeps us partly immune from it?

Vaccinations do the same thing as “rolling reinfection” without the recipients being contagious and putting others at risk (as well a protecting themselves). We have a “vaccinate the at risk” approach to the flu in the UK, and, compared to other countries that vaccinate to prevent spread, the results are very poor.

Flu vaccine is far from perfect due to quick mutations, especially so this upcoming year as we aren’t quite sure whats going to appear.

This is very true. Which is why this winter we will need to act differently. I hope this results in a new approach carrying forward into future winters as well.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flu-vaccination-in-schools/flu-vaccination-programme-2021-to-2022-briefing-for-schools

Last year, the flu vaccination programme was extended into year 7 in secondary school for the first time as part of the government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Due to the uncertainties around the impact of COVID-19 this winter, the programme is being extended, to include all secondary school-aged children up to year 11. No decision has yet been made about whether the expanded programme will continue in future years covering all children to year 11 or whether the programme will return to a phased rollout approach.

First two patients to be treated in the US with our antibody were both double vaccinated with mRNA. Rate of growth of delta is consistent across countries and appears independent of vaccination. Hospitalisations and deaths are lower, but spread is not. Note lower not zero. When dealing with large numbers, sadly some will come out for the worse. Will be an interesting week for cases. I noted the U.K. has followed Nadia relatively closely, just offset by time.

As for prophylaxis, Regeneron were granted an updated label in the US for prevention for n high risk settings. That’s good news for those who won’t respond to vaccines.

The grift never ends

Yesterday @archiemanners and I convinced anti-vaxxer Piers Corbyn to take £10,000 he thought came from AstraZeneca to stop criticising their vaccine. Except it was monopoly money and we recorded the whole thing. https://t.co/XfW1deStQk

— Josh Pieters (@joshua_pieters) July 31, 2021

Thanks Piers. I’d missed the new “magnetic” anti-vaccine nonsense. Proper bonkers.

The grift never ends

Pretty shady!

Maybe going off topic, but the prank they did on Katie Hopkins is worth a watch

That video is simply brilliant.

I can’t read Regeneron without thinking –

Anyone know how the ping / isolation system works. My wife got a notification yesterday but only for 6 days i assumed it was a flat 10? Shes NHS so has been double jabbed for ages so hoping she will be fine. Wasn’t the pub she was at with all our friends the day before only assuming its the train or something like that. Obvs doing a lateral flow / pcr and all that jazz.

It’s 10 days since you were in contact with the person who tested positive, so the contact was four days ago, six days left.

It’s 10 days since you were in contact with the person who tested positive, so the contact was four days ago, six days left.

oh wow thats so bad. Granted there are extremely high numbers of people getting pinged but for the previous 4 days shes been going to work and socialising as normal. Cheers for the info. We got a walk in test centre down the road so will both be making a visit today

The person may not have known they were ill for a couple of days, couple of days for the test to be done and then uploaded on the app, its about as good as it can be to be honest.

You can only act on information you have Joe. If we’re to believe it a lot of people have deleted the app simply because they don’t want to know. I prefer to make informed choices myself. 🤷

It sounds like we really need an update from Australia… what are the military up to?

Well, apparently there were no significant anti-lockdown protests at the weekend, so military/police presence may have influenced that. Or the Olympics was too compelling?

Four day lockdown was announced in Brisbane and south-east Queendland at the weekend when a school student tested positive with Delta strain out of the blue. 18 cases found over two days and of course they’re tracing like mad. I expect this means we’ll be in lockdown for at least a month. Presser in 20 mins will be interesting …

Lockdown reg’s are fairly strict. All schools shut except for vulnerable and essential workers’ kids. Masks for high school kids and teachers of kids of all ages (unless teaching deaf kids).
10km exercise limit – exercise in a mask unless you can’t breathe.

Queues are building at the testing centres, etc.

Vaccination rate are climbing as fast as possible …

So Queensland got an extra 15 cases out of 21,000 tests. All under 40yo. 10 of them are under 10 years old.
Lockdown extended to Sunday.

Yeah – there is nothing hugely interesting to report here in NSW – we are still in lockdown, 8 local council areas more than others – if you live in one of those, you can’t leave, even if you can’t work from home – essential workers only.

A few things have changed:

Building sites are open again (Construction is a huge driver of the economy here) – but if you live in one of those 8 local council areas, you can’t leave to go to a building site anyway.

The “health advice” has changed – all over 18s should now receive the AZ vaccine. Because of the clotting risks, it was previously only 60+ getting the AZ, and 40-60 Pfizer (18-40 could get the AZ after consultation with their GP). So we’ve gone from a complete dogs breakfast of constantly changing and poorly communicated messages re: vaccine populations, to an incredibly simple one! hooray!

AZ is now being given on a walk-in basis in lots of places, including pharmacies. Looks like demand is good – but we’ll see what the coming weeks bring.

16-18 year olds (currently doing their HSCs – A-level equivalent) are being given the pfizer jab as a priority, to allow them to go back to school and do their exams. Pfizer doses are being diverted from other populations to achieve this, which is causing a bit of a kerfuffle.

Oh – a report has been published over the weekend detailing what level of vaccination we need to get to , to be able to unlock. I haven’t read it yet (because 2 kids in lockdown at the weekend) – but I’ve heard 70-80% of over 18s is the target, and the plan is to get there by December. We’ll see.

Yeah, the army have been brought in to help the police with knocking on doors – making sure that people who are supposed to be self isolating actually are doing so. People aren’t particularly alarmed about it, the chain of command is clear and they’ve done it before the first time around….. it’s no big deal.

What else? errrrm. Oh, my Ikea order got delayed by 4 days because all the delivery drivers are self isolating, and my hellofresh box is going to be late again for the same reason.

I haven’t been surfing for 5 weeks now: bad times. But some artisanal coffee beans have just arrived, so things are looking up

Burnet Institute report here in case anyone is so inclined

Yeah, the army have been brought in to help the police with knocking on doors – making sure that people who are supposed to be self isolating actually are doing so.

I got an absolute pasting on here last year suggesting the army could be supporting the Police with lickdown rules 🤣

Aye, but who would they lickdown? 🤣

This is a bit scary. It’s a bit wordy and lots of science so could do with a bit of help understanding it please. From a virologist who has worked on vaccine development but thinks vaccinating during high levels of circulating virus is a bad idea and is leading to younger people being more ill than if they hadn’t been vaccinated(if I’ve read this correctly)
https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/?fbclid=IwAR2q1oVnipMBNqb0ePGX7lZIMtfmzrVxMlU5YtJ50i_MEnYZjSPqrk_CvVg

Aye, but who would they lickdown? 🤣

Might motivate people to stay at home if men/women in uniform are coming round to check your lickdown?

So the app is to be modified then? With cases dropping it only seems to follow the usual government MO…

I didn’t read the article in full myti because I’ve seen, read and heard many other expressing similar views in more moderate terms. Mutations are inevitable and vaccine evassion is a possibility but whether a vaccine avoiding variant would be more deadly is by no means a certainty. Probably not. Updated vaccines will be needed to keep up but I see no reason to think vaccination with the ones we have now is a bad thing.

Mass infection prevention and mass vaccination with leaky Covid-19 vaccines in the midst of the pandemic can only breed highly infectious variants.

Mutation happens anyhow whether people are vaccinated or not. It’s alarmist when it’s going to happen anyhow. The Indian Delta variant came from a population with a low level of vaccination.

The variants in any population may be more or less infectious but the more infectious are more likely to gain ground. Whether those variants will be more or less deadly is uncertain but the trend is generally towards less deadly.

The alternative view is that fewer people will have transmissible levels of the virus with vaccination so there is a lower risk of mutation.

Good points thanks.

Its the Trump approach… just stop counting

So the app is to be modified then? With cases dropping it only seems to follow the usual government MO…

It should have happened sooner. An entirely voluntary app whose advice you don’t need to follow is completely useless if people just delete it. The whole isolating message was idiotic, it should have just been a tool to encourage people to be more careful if they’d potentially been in contact with an infected person.

Mass infection prevention and mass vaccination with leaky Covid-19 vaccines in the midst of the pandemic can only breed highly infectious variants.

I find this assertion a wee bit off tbh, all we are ever told about covid, is that it gets more infectious? Is that really true? I’m mean viruses can mutate in a variety different ways, why is covid unique adept at only becoming more infectious? Surely the there’s a bigger story to these mutations? Can someone point me towards the research, I would like to read it.

Genuine question, I’m not dismissing anything about how current variations have gone, but strikes me that it can only become more infectious is a bit off?

For the record I’m someone that’s fully behind vaccination, I’m doubled up, and following restrictions, mask wearing etc. We just seem somewhat limited in this mutation discussion tbh is my instinct.

Surely the possibility for what ever type of mutation isn’t so linear?

ie if it’s getting better at infectiousness, is it still as deadly for example? has it changed in other ways?

It’s a question I’d like to understand more about.

The whole isolating message was idiotic

Isolating potential carriers is the entire point of a track/trace/isolate programme. Get ahead of the virus and break the chain of transmission. Without isolating those likely to be passing the virus on, it’s money down the drain. It never really worked here anyway, as many people can’t afford to isolate, and weren’t supported to do so.

ie if it’s getting better at infectiousness, is it still as deadly for example? has it changed in other ways?

The theory is that it’s a turbocharged natural selection process, with thousands of potential mutations being trialled every time an ‘error’ creeps into the replication process. The ones that are more successful take over (and a virus’s main aim is to replicate and continue) ; those that don’t work die out.

The second part of the theory is that in order to replicate it needs to be infectious, but killing the host doesn’t benefit. If the virus caused you to die in seconds, how do you contact enough people to pass it on? Wander round with a runny nose and a cough spreading the virus particles all over the place, OTOH…..

New hospital admissions in England look to be falling now, and number of patients in hospital has stopped growing. As expected/hoped. Good news.

theotherjonv
Full Member
ie if it’s getting better at infectiousness, is it still as deadly for example? has it changed in other ways?

The theory is that it’s a turbocharged natural selection process, with thousands of potential mutations being trialled every time an ‘error’ creeps into the replication process. The ones that are more successful take over (and a virus’s main aim is to replicate and continue) ; those that don’t work die out.

The second part of the theory is that in order to replicate it needs to be infectious, but killing the host doesn’t benefit. If the virus caused you to die in seconds, how do you contact enough people to pass it on? Wander round with a runny nose and a cough spreading the virus particles all over the place, OTOH…..

aye but that sounds suspiciously like the virus has some kinda intelligence, knows what it wants to do and has a goal, rather than just random mutations of trial and error. 😆 Like I say whole conversation seems off. I’m gonny have to educate myself on it.

Isolating potential carriers is the entire point of a track/trace/isolate programme. Get ahead of the virus and break the chain of transmission. Without isolating those likely to be passing the virus on, it’s money down the drain. It never really worked here anyway, as many people can’t afford to isolate, and weren’t supported to do so.

The app is even more useless than track and trace. That at least had legislation to attempt to make people comply and allowed you to claim statutory sick pay. Without that and/or support to isolate it only really has value as a tool to make people be slightly more careful. As 95% of those “pinged” don’t go on to record a positive test it’d seem the sensible option.

Track and trace only really works as a concept with very low infection numbers, once in even the hundreds people have passed it on before they know they’re infectious and there’s no real hope of tracing their contacts.

This is interesting IMO.
Despite what i’m reading here, research in Canada, Scotland and Singapore is showing the Delta strain appears to be associated with a higher risk of hospitalisation and death.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-03/covid-delta-danger-sees-experts-prepare-for-hospital-surge/100334558