where do I stand – Shimano wheel set – de laminated – out of warranty

21/21/2011 – I bought some Shimano RS80 wheels.

I have not used them much – only summer use.

the wear indicator on the rim is still very visible.

I noticed some white marks on the carbon but thought it was just lacquer.

then I noticed the carbon has de laminated and completely come away from the alloy rim in several places.

shimano have a 2 year warranty.

but this is obviously a manufacturing fault.

it doesn’t sound like a common fault as I can’t find much on the web.

I have spoken to the store I bought them from (still have receipt) – they are going to speak to Shimano – but don’t hold my breath.

I don’t want to sound dramatic but I could have had a nasty accident now the strength of the wheel will be compromised.

surely £350 (in the sale) should get me a wheel set that will last thousands of miles???

my post made me sound like a dick. So I edited it.

/stw standard response #37

That’s a sticker, isn’t it?

/stw

But if you bought them in 2011 you have had thousands of miles out if them Shirley?

What sort of mileage and where have they been stored(hot/cold/damp)?

my opinions make me sound like a dick.I wish I could self edit.

You stand… well you don’t have a leg to stand on really.

If they are out of warranty then they are not covered but if you are lucky they might sort something for you. I’m guessing not using them and storing them somewhere hot/cold could be bad for the glue or something

Not to play down the defect at all but what’s the nature of the construction ? Is that “just” a cosmetic fairing on an alloy rim ?

If so, maybe you could safely reglue it if shimano aren’t playing

I don’t want to sound dramatic but I could have had a nasty accident now the strength of the wheel will be compromised.

Oh is this a “wheres theres a claim….” hint of legal action?
Personally I’d have waited on a response from the shop / Shimano before hinting at anything pitchforky.

Not sure it’s “clearly a manufacturing defect”, although I am inclined to agree with you.

Oh and the wheels are nearly 4 years old (guessing as 21/21/2011 is not a date I recognise).
Its pretty hard to control a wheel’s use over 4 years, which is perhaps why your wheels were only warrantied for 2 years.

you can see with the wear indicator they have had little use.

bought 21/12/2011 –

Shimano RS80 Carbon Clincher Wheels 2010

High performance road racing wheel with carbon laminate technology to meet the demands of today’s professional and amateur riders.

Carbon and alloy laminate clincher rim is both light weight and ridged whilst maintaining high braking performance with standard brake pads

Low rim weight is achieved by reducing the alloy wall thickness to 0.7 mm, then a patent pending phosphoric acid anodizing process is used to bond the carbon fibre to the alloy giving an excellent combination of low weight, strength and rigidity

Added carbon reinforcement is applied around the spoke eyelets for increased durability under high load

Are these the ones? So a carbon layer is glued on to an alloy extrusion. I’d expect it to come undone “eventually”. I think eventually should be a decade or more down the line for most stuff, but given I still have 80s stuff that’s rideable even that seems pretty short. They’re unapologetically being sold as lightweight race items though, so is it implied that longevity has been sacrificed? I’d be unhappy only getting four summers out of any expensive item, so I don’t think you’re out of order trying to get replacements, but I’ve never bought anything more racy than XT or 105 myself, so have no actual experience to help.

being picky…

you can see with the wear indicator they have had little use.

means they’ve had little braking use

They could have done thousands and thousands of potholed dry summer miles with very little abrasive braking and still have virtually no rim wear, Vs a few months of gritty wet hill use and there could be a big difference.

Well it doesn’t have to come undone but there’s lots of things that can lead to it happening regardless of mileage – for example being stored somewhere damp which can corrode the aluminium and eventually lead to the carbon separating from it.

Second, they’re road wheels. Unless you ride in crap conditions a lot, they can last years without wearing out the rim so I don’t think the wear indicator really says much.

As has been said, it’s annoying when kit breaks despite not much use but that’s life and I suppose the moral of the tale is get the miles in 🙂

3 summers of use and around 5 rides this year – not much for £350 IMO

I ride mtb and cx and in poor weather I use other wheel sets – mavic / fulcrums / cheap shimano’s

I think I’m being very reasonable.

I think I’m being very reasonable.

You seem to be arguing with a decision that’s not been made yet?

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable asking if they’ll do something. I think expecting them to would be though.

As has been stated, looking fairly new doesn’t prove a manufacturing fault and there’s so many ways they could have failed that I think you’ll be looking for good will rather than obligation.

sefton – Member
3 summers of use and around 5 rides this year – not much for £350 IMO

Prove it. Could’ve done 109x that amount of riding for all i actually know.

Even if you could prove it, you’re out of warranty and relying on a good-will gesture

You seem to be arguing with a decision that’s not been made yet?

true – just annoyed with the aspect of losing my best wheelset and not having £££ to replace.

its annoying that you pamper a product to keep it ‘best’ and it bloody fails anyway.

No harm in chancing it, but you can’t argue you haven’t had much use out of them. That’s down to you, not the wheels.

The problems seem to be around the spoke bed. Have they ever been trued or tightened?

its obviously not common as I can’t find anything else similar on the web.

3 summers of use and around 5 rides this year

pointless numbers without further clarification.

5 rides could be 50 miles or 500
3 summers could be 3 lots of 4 months @500miles per month (ie: 6000+ miles) or 3 medium length sportives

I’m not saying it’s not a failure or acceptable, just stick to the facts and not conjecture about expected future failures or vague figures of use.

You have some wheels that have failed, they shouldn’t have done really, but they are out of warranty, you might get a goodwill gesture, you might not.

I hope you get a satisfactory resolution as I wouldn’t be happy either if my wheels had done that, but if Shimano told me to jog on I’d accept it.

STW at its finest 🙄

OP hope you get sorted.

See what Madison have to say. My expectation is, sorry they are out of warranty. In any event, the carbon is non-structural in those wheels so you can continue to ride them and try and glue them yourself.

I’d be annoyed too as I have some Giant wheels built using the same construction. More recent design use structural carbon. Did you ride them in the rain? My Giant wheels collect water inside the carbon fairing so I drilled two drain holes which solved the problem.

FWIW, I had a quick google and found several examples of the RS80s failing/delaminating including this one which sounded nasty:

http://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/974328-my-shimano-rs80-c50-rear-wheel-came-apart.html

Obviously I’ve no idea how the wheels were treated (it could be that like you’ll often see they were taking a day to day hammering on commuter bikes) but there does seem to be a common problem of the carbon separating from the aluminium.

That’ll certainly strengthen your case for good will though you’re still outside the warranty period for manufacturing fault as I reckon Madison could comfortably argue that 4 years is a reasonable life for a set of racing wheels

FWIW, it sounded from that link like the carbon is structural since it holds the spokes, unlike say Mavic Cosmics (or at least old ones, don’t know about current versions)

Give it a go, but don’t hold your breath.

shimano have a 2 year warranty.

but this is obviously a manufacturing fault.

Not to sound dumb, but isn’t a warranty for manufacturing faults? What else is a warranty for?

Design fault…

I’ve a pair of these and i really like them.
easy covered a couple of thousand miles on them and they still run true and look great. ill have a closer look at the bonding tonight but that looks pretty nasty, might take a bit of moaning at shimano but I reckon you are in with a shout at getting it sorted.

maybe I could just buy new rims and reuse the hubs and spokes? (so alls not lost)

Rims are £150 each.When my rs80 hubs died I rebuilt them on some Novatech hubs with new spokes (bugger finding 16/20 hole tho).I’ve done a lot of miles on them over the years and they are <1300g now!!!
Madison are pretty good (if a little slow) at shimano warranty….I reckon you will probably get sorted out.Just try not to be a dick about it (if the number of xtr pedals,clutch rear mechs and 105 triple shifters I’ve sent back outside of warranty is anything to go by).

Nothing ventured nothing gained – just have a chat with the shop you got them from/the distributer?

About a week ago a friend of mine posted up a picture on Facebook of his Dura Ace wheels having done the same thing (they use the same rims). His were well used though.

So you are going to struggle given that you can’t prove what use the wheels have had. You may have only done one ride but it may have been the Paris Roubaix Sportive – shimano customer service aren’t going to know.

My suggestion would be to be really nice and non aggressive. Basically say how disappointed you are in the premature failure, how Shimano has a reputation for quality and customer service – then tell them how you like the issue resolved – new rim fitted?

If you do decide to go more hardline you’ll probably just get told to FO. About the only course you have is to claim that they were not fit for purpose as the lifetime of a wheel of this nature should be much longer. I did this once with a Fridge/Freezer. 2 years old, out of warranty and died. Argued that the expected lifetime of a fridge was X (backed up with an independent article from which). I got a 50% refund on the value – I was expecting nothing.

Prepare for the worst/hope for the best. FWIW I have some of these wheels and am a little nervous of this failure. I bought some handbuilts last year for Majorca, Italy and really long rides as I was scared of being left stuck in the middle of no where with a broken wheel. They are fine for racing though – I just keep an eye on them.

cheers – no aggression – just disappointment. I have shimano products on most of my bikes. I see Shimano as the most reliable brand (sram / campy). infact going to press the button on a new 105 full group!

They’ve not been on a car rack with that wheel close to the exhaust have they ?

Hope you get it sorted OP, looks like a manufacturing defect from the pics.

The warranty is in addition to the SOGA, so maybe you can rely on that to get it sorted if they won’t fix otherwise.

nope – no car rack.

to be honest even if I abused them in hard winter conditions a fail in this area doest come under ‘wear and tear’ IMO.

I think its a bit of a freak one off.

hopefully get sorted. fingers crossed

Mine were a similar age and also did this. Difference being I’d put about 10k miles on them in all weathers. Braking surface was practically see-through! I was happy to retire them at that point as they’d had a decent innings.

Definitely would not have expected it after light use, if well stored etc.

You didn’t clean them with anything particularly noxious did you?

Hope you get sorted – at least a hefty discount on a replacement would be nice.

Madison would like me to send the wheels back to them. they said they should not do that even though they are out of warranty.

like I said it does sound like a one off.

fingers crossed.

^ good news.

I would echo the poor design aspect. It does seem odd. Are they still doing that design?

The phosphoric anodising will be to give a functional surface for the adhesive (normally epoxy) to bond to. Defects in this or contamination could lead to poor bond and I would imagine CTE and stiffness differences would lead to stresses that can exploit any weakness.

You should be covered under sales of good act anyway if they have failed in an unreasonable time and with little use which would give you a resolution subject to deductions for the time you have had out of them.

Sounds like Madison are looking after you so no need to start quoting SOGA etc and just see what they offer. They may well go above and beyond.

Madison have been great – spoke and dealt with them directly. they are replacing both wheels 🙂