Wheel building virginity…

…popped!

Just kind of finished by first wheel build. LB carbon 29er rim front wheel with a SS hub and black Alpina DB spokes and black brass nipples.

Using the wheelpro book and quite chuffed with my Park Tools coloured DIY nipple driver using a £1.50 Draper screwdriver:

Trick is to use a blow torch to melt the plastic when you take the shaft out and then repeat and keep spinning when you put it back as it cools.

Bit worried whether I have the tension right, all pinging very nicely uniformly and looks very straight in my “jig” (set of forks with cable ties and flipped to check 0 dish).

Nice one! I just did my first set too, BR710s on DT fatbike rims, apart from a problem with the spoke length due to DT’s crappy calculator it went pretty smoothly. Remains to be seen whether I die when I ride them mind 😆

I was nervous about spoke length! I used DT, sapim and the wheelpro spreadsheet on self measured ERDs and I used Sapim 14mm nipples as they are threaded the same as a 12mm nipple. Martin over at cyclebasket was very helpful too.

All the fronts were rounded up slightly when borderline up or down and I think that was a mistake as the thread does just protrude slighly but they do feel very tight. Worst case is I will have to take them apart and add nipple washers but that will be a ballache (and ad weight!)

how dit you do the centering pin, did you drill and pin or file the rest down?

Nice one.

Unless you’re a real hammer-hands, your wheels should be fine. If you followed the wheelpro guide carefully, and spent enough time stress-relieving and balancing tension, then barring a big smack, they should stay true for years.

Hi can I ask what tools (investment)you need apart from the driver is a tension meter necessary?

I just used a spoke key, a screwdriver, and for my “truing stand” my frame/forks, a ruler and cable ties. I did grind a screwdriver bit down to make a spoke driver, for my electric screwdriver, just to speed things up but I only used it for basic assembly in the end.

TBH I’ve been scared off this for years, which is daft as I’ve never really found a spanner job I can’t do. It’s always felt like more art than science. With all new parts I found it easier than straightening out a used wheel 😳

I just did a pair too! And I’m still alive! Exclamation marks! 😀

I did grind a screwdriver bit down to make a spoke driver, for my electric screwdriver, just to speed things up but I only used it for basic assembly in the end.

Just get yourself a little shop-hand.

Even I can’t do a guide to wheelbuilding that starts “First, abduct a child”

I’m sure the worst bit is getting all the bits together and worrying about spoke length.
I’ve done s few Tim swaps in the past but never a full build from parts until recently when I had to remove a pair of hubs that were being replaced. I managed to keep tabs on which spokes were for which wheel and whether drive side or non drive side whilst waiting for the replacement hubs, then spent a very chilled hour or so building them back up.
Just followed the wheel pro book and used my frame to true and centre. I now feel like I could do it again. Definitely one of this jobs that seems impossible until you do it and then you think what was I worrying about!

For initial spoke winding I just use one of these in a wee power screwdriver

i’ve also just built my first pair of wheels.

great fun, but after about 10k of riding, ALL the spokes were so loose the bike became quite tricky to ride, i walked home. The shame.

i’ve now rebuilt the wheels, but going for *much* tighter than before. fingers and toes are all crossed for my 25k commute tomorrow.

I made a driver from a screwdriver too but didn’t bother with the bending the shaft and making it spin, it’s basically the same as screwing in a screw so it works fine. I guess if you were making a lot of wheels a spinning one would be nice.

Squeez pairs of spokes with 2 fingers, compare to another wheel that to ones that doesn’t fall apart. I have a spoke tension tool, great for balancing tensions (which is difficult to tell any other way) but ultimately you can still build a wheel that wont fall apart without one.

STATO – Member

Squeez pairs of spokes with 2 fingers, compare to another wheel that to ones that doesn’t fall apart.

did that, the wheels i built were by far the tightest wheels in my possession. they still fell apart.

my best guess is that you need to tighten the wheel to the point where it’s noticeably tricky to tighten further – at least that’s where i am now.

a friends’ borrowed Park tension gauge now puts my spokes firmly in the middle of the suggested range.

which means all my other wheels, that weren’t built my me, are suspiciously loose…

which means all my other wheels, that weren’t built my me, are suspiciously loose…

once you’ve built your own all machine built ones seem horrendous, loose and with spoke tensions all over the place.

^^ true

The build/first service on all of our hire fleet has me biting my knuckles to avoid getting the spoke key out to all the wheels. OTOH, we have very few failures each year so maybe I’m just being too much of a perfectionist.

sssimon – Member
how dit you do the centering pin, did you drill and pin or file the rest down?

At first I was just filing it but it was killing my needle files so then, as i didn’t have any diamond needle files, I blow torched it which seemed to anneal it and it was much easier to work and fine tune.

I used a 5x100mm blade screwdriver which was a little bit too thick so had to file it down slightly so it fits nice in the nipple slots. Also filed the thick sides off from the flattening process so it doesnt catch on the bed holes in the rims. Again this is easy after annealing the blade.

Finsihed the rear wheel before I went out earlier, again the spokes are little bit longer than I would like. I was worried about the spoke not reinforcing the nipple head which is admittedly less of a worry with brass but I think the sapim nipple (more cupped ones) really press into the carbon rim bed. No bulging or anything, I just think that under tension the composite is locally a bit more likely to deflect and it means the resultant ERD is about 2mm shorter than you can measure by hand with 2 spokes just places in the rim.

Unfortunately I also have 2 650b rims here and already have the spokes for them. I was originally going to go with Sapim D-lights as they a necked right up to the thread area so the spoke can keep going but the Alpinas were a lot less.

I was going to put together a truing stand with some aluminium extrusions but I have ended up just using my forks and a frame with cable ties and a cheap nipple wrench.

I think I have the tension pretty high, the spoke squeeze test is a LOT firmer than my Superstar wheels but I think they need re-doing but they feel slightly less flexible than my old Merlin 717 26″ wheels that were last checked over and trued by Bad As Bikes (ie built and trued by people who are pretty damn good).

I am tempted to take them to BAB to be checked over but it might be best to ride them first and see how they go. All of the spokes sound very similar on each side. The disc side on the front sounds slightly lower and he drive side on the rear sounds slightly lower which I think is right?

I made a driver from a screwdriver too but didn’t bother with the bending the shaft and making it spin, it’s basically the same as screwing in a screw so it works fine. I guess if you were making a lot of wheels a spinning one would be nice.

I didnt see the point until I first used it in anger and then I realised the whole point to the design. I laced the whole rear wheel and began tensioning, including doing the cable ties on the frame in the time between my first and second post (30 min) so not too bad really for my second one and the nipple driver definitely speeds up that stage and the initial truing. I think I am being spoilt with carbon rims though as they stay very true. They are terrifying though for a beginner tension wise.

[quoteTBH I’ve been scared off this for years, which is daft as I’ve never really found a spanner job I can’t do. [/quote]

Same with me. Something psychological making you think it is harder than it is. In reality it is a very easy thing to do and more importantly the most satisfying job I have ever done on the bike.
Some of the reason I changed my hubs was to just build the wheels up again.

The opposite end being messing about with hydraulic brakes which is no fun to me at all.

I’m now going to google “nipple driver” at work, wish me luck!

I’m now going to google “nipple driver” at work, wish me luck!

Neighbour looked at me funny when I asked to borrow his big bench vice to make a pointy nipple driver for by black nipples. 😀

When you’ve got the driver sorted, you can move on to “How much oil should I use on my nipples?”

A search on CRC for “nipple driver” gives one hit – http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/s?q=nipple+driver&cat=direct LOOK AT THE PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As has been mentioned, a small screwdriver from the pound shop and a file will do you grand.

If it’s got a thin shaft, it’s easier to twizzle between your fingers . 😐

You’d have to be building 10 wheels a day to make one of those drivers worthwhile.

Iv never bothered with a tension meter. Surely if the wheel is true in dish, wobble and “uppy-downy” then as long as there is a descent tension in the spokes….all the spokes will be the same tension (on one side).

If somehow there were different tensions in a true wheel – then tightening any spokes to correct for this would throw the wheel out of true…which is undesirable

that’s my logic anyhow – and my wheels seem to last

That’s what I thought too- surely if a wheel is doing the whole ‘wheel’ thing then it’s fine, surely. Surely? Anyway, I’m still not dead after riding the wheels I built, which is nice 😀

You’d have to be building 10 wheels a day to make one of those drivers worthwhile

Park one can be had for €21 from ActionSports. Unnecessary, but nice to have.

I made my nipples driver from a £1.50 screwdriver and a £3oregon chainsaw file handle.

I used a camping stove to heat the screwdriver up and bent it into shape and used a flat chainsaw file to form the point.

Then I got some dt swiss wheels with squorx nipples and had to source the specific driver

Well plenty of de-stressing and tweaking and pinging and i think the 29er ones are there. (not been doing them all day, just got home and had a quick fettle).

1780g for the pair with 15mm front and 10mm rear axles (no QRs). D-lights would have saved me about 14g/rim and brass nipples another 20ish so they would have just made it down to 1700 but these should be a bit tougher and more reliable. Still lighter than DT swiss comps would have been.

I used d-lights for my commuting wheels. They built up nicely. Don’t wind-up like revs can, so easier to work with.

Another question heroes of wheel building, I want to fit a new hub in an old wheel am I going to be able to reuse all my old spokes and nipples or should I have spares on hand?

It’s not the difficulty per se, it’s the (perceived?) consequences of a failure. Any sort of front wheel collapse at speed is going to hurt. I’ve only ever swapped rims which I found straightforward. Probably helped that the originals were quality handbuilt and bombproof (just worn out from rim brakes).

Not sure I’d fancy re-using spokes in a new hub unless the dimensions were precisely the same and maybe not even then. You’ll be bending the spoke heads again otherwise.

I wouldn’t re-use nipples, but as long as the spokes look OK, have no obvious bad twists, cracks or nicks there’s really no reason not to re-use I guess.

If somehow there were different tensions in a true wheel – then tightening any spokes to correct for this would throw the wheel out of true…which is undesirable

You can get differences in the leading vs trailing spokes on opposite sides, so 1/4 turn on/off over the wheel will make no difference to the true, but will give even tension and longer lasting wheel (in theory at least, I dont think it really matters unless you are on the cutting edge of light weight parts).

Another question heroes of wheel building, I want to fit a new hub in an old wheel am I going to be able to reuse all my old spokes and nipples or should I have spares on hand?

Same hub? If not then you will need to check the spokes will be the correct length.

You can usually re-use spokes as long as they are in good condition. Personally, I would only use them in the same part of the lacing pattern as previously used (head in/out, crossed under/over) this prevents them being twisted/bent in a new direction.

I would suggest new nipples.

Yes its a like for like hub.

arse,

problem with my front 650b wheel 🙁

Noticed on lacing that the lengths were not right.

Calculator said 267.0 and 270.0 so I got 268 and 270. 268’s are going to bottom out 🙁 Not sure what is going on, ERD was measured across every hole pair but I didn’t use the same nipple and I am wondering if these Sapim ones are sitting lower in the rim hole. Some Sapim HM nipple washers could be a quick fix.