[Closed] what do the Greeks spend the money on?

Olives and curly shoes?

Backhanders - they're whole system runs on them

Feta

terrible coffee and Ouzo?

Lots of them seem to sit about all day doing that at cafe's.

Any beaches going cheap there yet?

Most of the money is being stolen, same as in Ireland and Spain. I do business in Greece and it's more corrupt than Nigeria because you are usually dealing with employees rather than company owners, so most business contacts want a backhander. I really hate it.

I think they also have a greater proportion of tax evasion than any other European country too
A massive part of the economy is 'off the books'

So, another fine example of a country who's regime was propped up by the CIA for several decades demonstrating libertarian principles?

The CIA has never been (or pretended to be) a libertarian organisation and it's more than 35 years since the junta terminated, so that's a bit like blaming Cameron's cutbacks on Harold Wilson, but whatever...

Pisspoor tax collection, highest military spending in EU (per cap), high social spending, inefficiency, corruption, massive and crappily-managed state-owned enterprises...

A bit like Spain then?

Mostly they spend it on food and rent, like the rest of us. In some places they spend it on Lexus 4x4 and Louis Vuitton bags.

For the foreseeable future they'll be spending their money on Goldman-Sachs executives' yachts.

Dungeon and Dragons, Computer and Comic books.

Oh sorry Greeks.

sixty fags a day and one of the lowest state retirement ages in the world

sixty fags a day and one of the lowest state retirement ages in the world

it cant be on heating bills....

You ever been Greece in the winter? It gets cold.

"What's a Greek urn?"

Is that a little Ern?

They spend it on flashy wallets and gold bling, hair gel and moustache cream and Momma.

They'll just get deeper into backhander territory as they fail yet again to bolster up an economy based on small market, no tax, micro economics.

I hate to say this, but I want at least one country to fail in the EuroZone, that doesn't mean Greece BTW, but I'd like to see the effects on the Euro economy.. Sounds bad that doesn;t it.. Sorry.

I believe they spend vast amounts of money on plates

Tsk.. such a lot of national stereotypes. Actually Greek living is quite spartan..

[img] [/img]

"What's a Greek urn?"

About three drachmas a week

They go through a fair amount of crockery!

Racist.

Retirement age is low, so its probably all going on benefits, interest and corruption

Cigarettes.

PS proper lol at GrahamS 🙂

Giant wooden horses

well its certainly not the sewage system.

Plates

EDIT: More seriously the state retirement age is 58 ish

same as us, a load of crap we don't need and will have to replace after a year when some **** tells us we need to

This article by Michael Lewis is a good primer: [url= http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010 ]Beware of Greeks bearing bonds.[/url]

In short, low retirement age, endemic tax dodging at all levels of society, and the fact that Greece's credit rating automatically jumped a huge amount as soon as it entered the Euro. It's a bit like someone on low income being handed a £10k line of credit - hard to resist spending it.

endemic tax dodging

There was something on radio 4 about his during round 1. A Greek Doctor was saying he was considered strange by his colleges as he declared his earnings and didn't ask for cash up front before treatment! When many Doctors are wanting cash nudge nudge wink wink you know it's endemic.

When my (Greek) father-in-law was in hospital, shortly before he died, my mother in law had to take a big wad of cash with her when she visited him, so that she could pay the doctor for him to be treated on a less-than-geological time scale. I was appalled but she considered it to be normal.

I urge you to read the Lewis article, in that case - he doesn't mince his words:

The tsunami of cheap credit that rolled across the planet between 2002 and 2007 has just now created a new opportunity for travel: financial-disaster tourism. The credit wasn’t just money, it was temptation. It offered entire societies the chance to reveal aspects of their characters they could not normally afford to indulge. Entire countries were told, “The lights are out, you can do whatever you want to do and no one will ever know.” What they wanted to do with money in the dark varied. Americans wanted to own homes far larger than they could afford, and to allow the strong to exploit the weak. Icelanders wanted to stop fishing and become investment bankers, and to allow their alpha males to reveal a theretofore suppressed megalomania. The Germans wanted to be even more German; the Irish wanted to stop being Irish. All these different societies were touched by the same event, but each responded to it in its own peculiar way. No response was as peculiar as the Greeks’, however: anyone who had spent even a few days talking to people in charge of the place could see that. But to see just how peculiar it was, you had to come to this monastery...

As it turned out, what the Greeks wanted to do, once the lights went out and they were alone in the dark with a pile of borrowed money, was turn their government into a piñata stuffed with fantastic sums and give as many citizens as possible a whack at it. In just the past decade the wage bill of the Greek public sector has doubled, in real terms—and that number doesn’t take into account the bribes collected by public officials.

It gets better (or weirder, depending on your point of view) from there.

Mainly interest to all those that have so (not) benevolently lent them money they can't afford to borrow. Googel "Golman Sachs Greece" or something similar.

Not greece but I bet its the same

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/27/spain-biggest-corruption-trial-marbella ]Corruption[/url]

[url= http://thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/04/27/eu-waste-massive-spanish-desalination-plant-lies-idle/ ]jobs for the boys[/url] and [url= http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a7427a48-403b-11e0-9140-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Puw78vTY ]white elephants[/url]

Private yachts, which they register as "Trawlers", although these have recently disappeared from their moorings, for some reason...

Don't forget the "unfinished house" scam. Every other house in Greece has concrete and iron sticking out of the flat "roof".

This thread is a bit full on. I'm somewhat Greek and much as they have their problems to paint the whole country as corrupt and grasping is a bit much.

I know a few greeks living here with their families back in greece and they say the level of corruption is huge, they got more out of their state pensions than they put into them and the public sector made ours look like a three man corner shop enterprise compared to theirs.

I'm not saying it isn't iffy over there but the tone of this thread is a bit off.

Like all the poorer economies in the Euro, Greece can't devalue and that is really screwing them. Worth remembering that as not too long ago the UK devalued by 20% and it largely saved our bacon. I'm not defending the bad practice and corruption but no nation is blameless especally ours, seems a bit rum to point the finger.

Hi bent_udder.

I read that article (all of it!) from Michael Lewis. Very entertaining/enlightening. I'll look out for some more of his stuff in future.

I can now safely say that 99.9% of what I know about Greece I have just learnt. - And it's all rather shocking.

Actually reading through all the links and information on the problem, I don't think devaluing would save their economy. The austerity measures are the sensible way forward, and the dodgers need to start paying taxes and the corruption needs to end, it really is the only hope for them.

I was about to say [i]"it's not [url= http://goo.gl/maps/6J8E ]this ringroad[/url] which was never finished and funded by EU money"[/i], but according to the [url= http://goo.gl/maps/JEXz ]map[/url] it's now been completed. Maybe that's what's caused all the problems...

Wouldn't save them but it would help make them a touch more competitive. The current situation is hard to see a way out of and the austerity measures are looking increasingly unlikely to help. Need to sell a fair few olives to get out of this mess.

I think if some of the stereotype comments on this thread had been made about black people the mods would have had to pull the thread as racist.

Reading through that vanity fair article, the comments are all fair though. Mental, wonder how they will get on when they cannot afford to buy oil/power.

How the hell can public sector workers retire at 50, and be paid 3 times the private sector workers salaries, let alone no-one paying taxes, because they don't want to.

Pisspoor tax collection, highest military spending in EU (per cap), high social spending, inefficiency, corruption, massive and crappily-managed state-owned enterprises...

Whether those allegations are true or not, they are extremely unlikely to have suddenly materialised - they are much more likely to have been deeply ingrained in Greek society over many decades. So it doesn't explain why Greece suddenly finds itself in such an appalling economic mess.

The much more likely cause of the economic collapse is government policy. Between March 2004 and September 2009 the Greek Conservatives were in power and they followed strict neo-liberal policies which included deep cuts to pensions, tax cuts for property and inheritance, and privately-funded higher education. By 2009 Greece was in economic chaos and the Conservatives were thrown out by the Greek electorate. Economic incompetence by the previous government and the global credit crunch is what contributed to the existing situation.

Surely the fact that nobody bothers to pay any tax, means you must have a thriving private/retail/service sector with people spunking money away left right and centre?

Well maybe taxation is actually a "good thing" binners ? .....despite the fact that we are fed this daily diet by the right-wing press concerning the evils of taxation.

Taxation is indeed a good thing, it was the Tories in the Eighties who branded it bad. I for one would happily pay more tax if it was well spent and improved society as a whole.

Sadly the Greeks are screwed either way, default or no default.

What gets me about the Euro scenario the most is that suddenly everyone is suprised about the current issues, surely the idea of the Euro was to help the poorer nations. Subsidize the wealth from the richer nations to help a greater Euro was the plan.

Otherwise what was the point of the Euro?

Otherwise what was the point of the Euro?

ernie - I totally agree with you. That's what I'm saying. This proves that the whole Thatcherite theory of trickle-down economics, to justify tax breaks to the rich, is utter and complete cobblers.

As I always thought it was

binners - Member
Surely the fact that nobody bothers to pay any tax, means you must have a thriving private/retail/service sector with people spunking money away left right and centre?

IMO

From what I understand that's exactly what happened, the problem is all the money came from government borrowing, not from a healthy productive economy.

EDIT: The Greek government are not the only government to over borrow and go on a 10 year spending spree, just one of the least likely to be able to pay it back.

The only way to get your money back is to put the Greeks to hard labour ... 😆

Oh ya ... we are **** too by EURO zone.

in that case it really does look like the mother of all economic **** ups

I mean, that Irish spent all there dosh on over-valued property
Iceland on Buying up half the businesses on the high street

Greece has spunked it all on dodgy tax scams, yachts and letting a generation retire at 50.

And.... erm... they're still expecting this bale out?

In that case, can I get one from the EU to pay off my credit card

I think some sort of debt for equity swap is in order.

mudshark - Member

I think some sort of debt for equity swap is in order.

You mean their islands? Olive oil?

What do they have that is worth swapping?

🙄

I for one would happily pay more tax if it was well spent and improved society as a whole.

So would I but such a shame it can never be like that. Some are more equal than other etc.

Surely a one-dimensional left-right spectrum is the only solution?

I'm off to the beach before it gets dark, I expect this to be solved by the time I get back.

😀

so it seems the greeks as individuals bought in to 'let the good times roll' choosing to retire at 50 is laudable but if those in work choose not to pay taxes than its an avalanche looking for a steep slope
sure it didnt just happen this week but the solution needs to start today and borrowing more money 35 thousand million pounds... think about how much that is.. 35 thousand million pounds. is not the answer.

What do they have that is worth swapping?

Well... if an organization can't pay its debts then the creditors could take control of the whole thing and work out how to get the best value from it rather than get nothing. Quite a lot to sell really, What does the Parthanon generate? Probably best to leave it where it is rather than stick it in the British Museum along with that other stuff we've got from them. Not sure what we do with the Greeks though, some would be needed to run things but there's a lot of fat that needs trimming.

borrowing more money 35 thousand million pounds... think about how much that is.. 35 thousand million pounds. is not the answer

It's only the answer because that's the interest on the money they were lent. For sure it's not the answer to how to get the economy moving again, but that is not, and has never been, the motive of the IMF and the banks. So the Euro taxpayer sends off money to Greece who promptly have to send it back, with the proceeds of selling the family silver, to line Goldman Sachs pockets

what do the Greeks spend the money on?

Toga parties.

I don't think that anyone's under any illusions that the bail out is some act of altruism. The IMF/EU just want to make sure the banks get their money. They don't care which taxpayer's pocket it comes out of. The Greeks? The Germans? French? Ours? Meh! Whateeever! Just get it into our accounts.

After they've got they're cash, they'll happily sit quaffing Krug while watching Athens dissolve into medieval anarchy

ernie - I totally agree with you. That's what I'm saying. This proves that the whole Thatcherite theory of trickle-down economics, to justify tax breaks to the rich, is utter and complete cobblers.

Yes I know.......I was just adding to the point which I knew you were making 😉

Of course the irony is that despite the myth they created, the highest tax-burden Britain has ever experienced in its history was actually under Thatcher. Low taxation under Thatcher was only ever for the privileged few, not for the average man or woman. And still the Tories pursue that agenda with the likes of the "Tory VAT Bombshell" which the LibDems correctly identified before the last general election, but completely betrayed their own voters on.

Yes the Tories fully recognise the importance of taxation, despite the fact that they think they shouldn't be paying it.

Iceland on Buying up half the businesses on the high street

Well how else were people of the world going to get cheap frozen food?

ernie - I totally agree with you. That's what I'm saying. This proves that the whole Thatcherite theory of trickle-down economics, to justify tax breaks to the rich, is utter and complete cobblers.

Those who propagated this myth knew full well what could happen, but hey they made their money and are now well out of it. Unfortunately there are no rules in place to prevent the next generation from doing it again.